Landry and Jimmy would have cut TO!!

[Doomsday101]

Exactly, to show how ridiculous all of this anti-Owens talk is, .. when many who talk about Owens were OK with Irvin.

I am trying to understand that.

How can what Owens has done be wrong, but what Irvin did OK, when Irvins' actions were criminal.

I am trying to show that the posters that don't like Owens now didn't like him before he got here, sort of to prove that he hasn't done anything since he got here to merit such disdain.

Many people didn't like him before we signed him, which is fine, but those are the ones that are jumping on everything he says or does and find fault.

I am pretty much worn out from trying to get that across, but that is what I have tried to do.

I can only speak for myself but I did not excuse Irvin actions and would not have blamed the organization had they cut him given the fact that we were seeing guys constantly getting into trouble. I will say with TO my concerns have never been off the field issues it has been on field issues and locker room issues and in my opinion that too can hurt a team. I know many former players and current players who will say chemistry on a team is very important and any player who disrupts that becomes a distraction to what the team is trying to accomplish. I don't think we are at that stage with TO at this time but yes it is a concern

 

[superpunk]

Exactly, to show how ridiculous all of this anti-Owens talk is, .. when many who talk about Owens were OK with Irvin.

I am trying to understand that.

How can what Owens has done be wrong, but what Irvin did OK, when Irvins' actions were criminal.

I am trying to show that the posters that don't like Owens now didn't like him before he got here, sort of to prove that he hasn't done anything since he got here to merit such disdain.

Many people didn't like him before we signed him, which is fine, but those are the ones that are jumping on everything he says or does and find fault.

I am pretty much worn out from trying to get that across, but that is what I have tried to do.

You invited any and all comparisons of character when you brought Irvin into it, which was a completely unnecessary red herring. Noone has said what Irvin DID was OK. I didn't want TO, then I went to seeing how awful the media was to him and defending him there, and now I'm sour on him because of his inconsistent, completely non-clutch play on the field. His selfish on the field celebration was stupid, but ultimately meaningless, so I can let go of that. Some people hate these ridiculously plotted out celebrations from any player, not just TO.

Bottom line, you brought Michael into it. Any comparisons you got - you asked for.

 

[braw]

I can only speak for myself but I did not excuse Irvin actions and would not have blamed the organization had they cut him given the fact that we were seeing guys constantly getting into trouble. I will say with TO my concerns have never been off the field issues it has been on field issues and locker room issues and in my opinion that too can hurt a team. I know many former players and current players who will say chemistry on a team is very important and any player who disrupts that becomes a distraction to what the team is trying to accomplish. I don't think we are at that stage with TO at this time but yes it is a concern

Look as a fan the concern is the product on the field. I grant you the drop pass and the 15 yard penalty. Does that warrant a label of problem player.

Tony Romo said last night that he wasn't aware of the rule for laying on the ground. Its a fine line because you spin a ball, spike a ball, throw in the stands; yet not lay on it. And the Ballin routine by the Giants is ok, Demarcus after a sack spread his arms and legs and fell to the ground, after a sack. Ratliff was crawling on all fours after a sack( no penalty)

Now if you want to blame him for the loss go ahead but the last play lost the game. If you can't see that and point to a play in the 3rd quarter, well what ever makes you sleep.

This team if you look at that stats is good. The offense has scored more at this point than last 7 years( 25 TDs tied for 2nd in the league) last year we scored 36 TDs all year long. You tell me the difference from last year to this yr. TO

The media has bought TO's luggage with them to Dallas not TO. Watkins from DMN has his cousin Pat Watkins on the team(inside info). Even Mosley blogs things like I have a story on TO and Haley but I save that for a rainy day.

TO did not kill the Eagles season because they were 4-4 last year and 4-4 this year at the half way point.

Nobody who speaks freely not commit crimes or brake rules deserves this kind of media hate. Being called the devil on TV, or that you have left a trail of destruction of organizations. His crime he speaks his mind in a PC world. Thats boderline McCarthyism, yet the media uses him for ratings and sell print.

The sad part is the media created TO and put him high on a string(like a pinata) to whack at will watch the candies fall out and the kids run for the candy.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

This team if you look at that stats is good. The offense has scored more at this point than last 7 years( 25 TDs tied for 2nd in the league) last year we scored 36 TDs all year long. You tell me the difference from last year to this yr. TO

25 TD's so far at the halfway point of 2006.... WOW

36 TD's for complete 2005 season...

Zoner's... we all know that Romo and TO and company are gonna atleast match that 25 in 2nd half.... things can only get better

 

[Doomsday101]

Look as a fan the concern is the product on the field. I grant you the drop pass and the 15 yard penalty. Does that warrant a label of problem player.

Tony Romo said last night that he wasn't aware of the rule for laying on the ground. Its a fine line because you spin a ball, spike a ball, throw in the stands; yet not lay on it. And the Ballin routine by the Giants is ok, Demarcus after a sack spread his arms and legs and fell to the ground, after a sack. Ratliff was crawling on all fours after a sack( no penalty)

Now if you want to blame him for the loss go ahead but the last play lost the game. If you can't see that and point to a play in the 3rd quarter, well what ever makes you sleep.

This team if you look at that stats is good. The offense has scored more at this point than last 7 years( 25 TDs tied for 2nd in the league) last year we scored 36 TDs all year long. You tell me the difference from last year to this yr. TO

The media has bought TO's luggage with them to Dallas not TO. Watkins from DMN has his cousin Pat Watkins on the team(inside info). Even Mosley blogs things like I have a story on TO and Haley but I save that for a rainy day.

TO did not kill the Eagles season because they were 4-4 last year and 4-4 this year at the half way point.

Nobody who speaks freely not commit crimes or brake rules deserves this kind of media hate. Being called the devil on TV, or that you have left a trail of destruction of organizations. His crime he speaks his mind in a PC world. Thats boderline McCarthyism, yet the media uses him for ratings and sell print.

The sad part is the media created TO and put him high on a string(like a pinata) to whack at will watch the candies fall out and the kids run for the candy.

I disagree with you. TO continue this as he rants on the sideline or jumps in a coach’s face or when he falls asleep in a meeting or when he comes in late. This team it 4-4 and we don't need that right now we need guys who when they walk into Valley Ranch are ready to take care of business. You can make all the excuses in the world for TO but he lacks discipline and this team lacks it as well. So while you’re entitled to your view I’m also entitled to mine and I think it is time for this team to buckle down and take care of business not the circus show that TO brings with him.

 

[braw]

I disagree with you. TO continue this as he rants on the sideline or jumps in a coach’s face or when he falls asleep in a meeting or when he comes in late. This team it 4-4 and we don't need that right now we need guys who when they walk into Valley Ranch are ready to take care of business. You can make all the excuses in the world for TO but he lacks discipline and this team lacks it as well. So while you’re entitled to your view I’m also entitled to mine and I think it is time for this team to buckle down and take care of business not the circus show that TO brings with him.

Thanks for the entitlement...But you miss the point. Ask yourself how is it I know all things(late to meetings, falling asleep, yelling on the sidelines) about him, yet I'm not on the team.Do you hear that of any other player....NO

Then your conclussion is if I hear TO doing this and not hear of anyone else. TO is BAD because nobody else yells on the sideline(Glenn at Parcells), pouts after a game(Bledsoe after Giants). And How would I know all this about Glenn, and Bledsoe because somebody told me.

People base opinions based on the info provided by others( you know like a courtroom).

For example: When you go vote do all the people with signs yelling Vote for SO and So sway you. NO people have already made up their minds before they vote.This happens when people are well informed but If go vote because you follow what everyone else is doing, then YES you can be swayed. Because short-term memory holds 7 +/- 2 characters, therefore when you vote look at the names( are not informed) but remember the persons name awhile ago.

 

[WV Cowboy]

You invited any and all comparisons of character when you brought Irvin into it, which was a completely unnecessary red herring. Noone has said what Irvin DID was OK. I didn't want TO, then I went to seeing how awful the media was to him and defending him there, and now I'm sour on him because of his inconsistent, completely non-clutch play on the field. His selfish on the field celebration was stupid, but ultimately meaningless, so I can let go of that. Some people hate these ridiculously plotted out celebrations from any player, not just TO.

Bottom line, you brought Michael into it. Any comparisons you got - you asked for.

Yes, I brought Irvin into it !!
Yes, I gladly invited all comparisons !!
I welcome the comparisons !!

I did so to point out the hypocrisy it is to vilify Owens and give Irvin a pass !

Now do you see what I was saying ?
It was in no way a red herring, I was not trying to divert attention, I was trying to bring attention to what Owens has done vs what Irvin has done.

If what Owens has done is so bad in some posters eyes, then why is it not the same for Irvin, ... who did worse ?

And yes, some do say what Irvin did was OK, ... because he didn't do it on the field.

 

[superpunk]

Does anyone really compare Owens' actions, with snorting cocaine during a game ??

But their actions are in a different league than anything Owens has said or done.

Compare him to Keyshawn or C. Johnson, but those guys commited crimes for crying out loud.

Yes, I brought Irvin into it !!
Yes, I gladly invited all comparisons !!
I welcome the comparisons !!

I did so to point out the hypocrisy it is to vilify Owens and give Irvin a pass

And yes, some do say what Irvin did was OK, ... because he didn't do it on the field.

So - you brought Irvin's name into it because you were on some hypocrisy witch-hunt? Ok. I don't see anything hypocritical in disapproving of Michael's actions while playing and then changing your tune on him once he changed his life - while also disapproving of the things Owens does. Sometimes Owens deserves to be criticized - this week is one of those times. In your incessant defense of Owens, though, you attempted to expose others as hypocrites, and ended up being a little hypocritical yourself - byt inviting comparisons to Michael, then getting indignant once they came, because they didn't draw the comparisons you wanted them to.

 

[Doomsday101]

Thanks for the entitlement...But you miss the point. Ask yourself how is it I know all things(late to meetings, falling asleep, yelling on the sidelines) about him, yet I'm not on the team.Do you hear that of any other player....NO

Then your conclussion is if I hear TO doing this and not hear of anyone else. TO is BAD because nobody else yells on the sideline(Glenn at Parcells), pouts after a game(Bledsoe after Giants). And How would I know all this about Glenn, and Bledsoe because somebody told me.

People base opinions based on the info provided by others( you know like a courtroom).

For example: When you go vote do all the people with signs yelling Vote for SO and So sway you. NO people have already made up their minds before they vote.This happens when people are well informed but If go vote because you follow what everyone else is doing, then YES you can be swayed. Because short-term memory holds 7 +/- 2 characters, therefore when you vote look at the names( are not informed) but remember the persons name awhile ago.

TO made his reputation for these action over the course of 11 years and no it does not vanish overnight and these constant problems no matter how small only add to a long list that has already been created by his own doing. You want to blame the messenger I focus and ask myself why can't he learn? The guy writing for the media does not play for the Cowboys and has no effect on TO's action. The guy at the paper did not make him late, the guy at the paper did not make him fall asleep and the guy at the paper did not make him jump up in the WR coaches face TO did that alone. Why do other guys not get the same attention? they don't have the long history. The media did not one day just jump and say lets make TO a bad guy, TO did that himself. I will agree the media can get lazy and use TO for an easy story but the story can't take place if you stop the stupid actions and do what your asked to do

 

[WV Cowboy]

So - you brought Irvin's name into it because you were on some hypocrisy witch-hunt? Ok. I don't see anything hypocritical in disapproving of Michael's actions while playing and then changing your tune on him once he changed his life - while also disapproving of the things Owens does. Sometimes Owens deserves to be criticized - this week is one of those times. In your incessant defense of Owens, though, you attempted to expose others as hypocrites, and ended up being a little hypocritical yourself - byt inviting comparisons to Michael, then getting indignant once they came, because they didn't draw the comparisons you wanted them to.

What we have here is .. failure to communicate.

There was no witch hunt,

I was not talking about MI after he changed his life, but back when he played for Dallas and was always getting in trouble.

Yes, sometimes Owens deserves to be critcized, and the EZ celebration was one, ... I called him on that.

My defense of Owens is not incessant, only when I feel he does't deserve it.

I didn't say any one was a hypocrite, I do think it is hypocritical to hold players to different standards just because you like one more than another.

When was I indignant about the Irvin comparisons?

 

[Marktui]

Landry was in a different era, guys were not getting paid as much and the media was not as involved. So its like apples to oranges when discussing Landry and TO. Hollywood Hernderson was the closest thing to TO back then and he stayed on the team.

Jimmy on the other hand I think would have tolerated TO. Jimmy always treated players with talent differently. He cut the Richards for fumbling 2 twice in the Chicago game, but really, that guy had no talent. Jimmy kept Irvin, Haley, Washington, LETT. These guys were not as vocal as TO (well Irvin was), but these guys were not choir boys either.

 

[Doomsday101]

Landry was in a different era, guys were not getting paid as much and the media was not as involved. So its like apples to oranges when discussing Landry and TO. Hollywood Hernderson was the closest thing to TO back then and he stayed on the team.

Jimmy on the other hand I think would have tolerated TO. Jimmy always treated players with talent differently. He cut the Richards for fumbling 2 twice in the Chicago game, but really, that guy had no talent. Jimmy kept Irvin, Haley, Washington, LETT. These guys were not as vocal as TO (well Irvin was), but these guys were not choir boys either.

You could be right about Jimmy but right now that is not what Johnson has been saying. He has called TO a distraction to the Cowboys. Now if people want to say that Jimmy is only saying that because he works for FOX or what ever that is fine but going by what Jimmy is saying today I don't know if it is a sure thing that TO and Jimmy would have gotten along with each other. Who knows?

 

[braw]

TO made his reputation for these action over the course of 11 years and no it does not vanish overnight and these constant problems no matter how small only add to a long list that has already been created by his own doing. You want to blame the messenger I focus and ask myself why can't he learn? The guy writing for the media does not play for the Cowboys and has no effect on TO's action. The guy at the paper did not make him late, the guy at the paper did not make him fall asleep and the guy at the paper did not make him jump up in the WR coaches face TO did that alone. Why do other guys not get the same attention? they don't have the long history. The media did not one day just jump and say lets make TO a bad guy, TO did that himself. I will agree the media can get lazy and use TO for an easy story but the story can't take place if you stop the stupid actions and do what your asked to do

Ok we disagree.........

But what you write and the manner it comes across is that of a personal nature. Not unless you have been in constant contact, such as a player on the 49ers, Eagles, and Cowboys, do you the authority to write something about this player. If you were a former teammate then I apoligize, I'm wrong. But if your a fan like me and the info comes via media, then we eat from the same trough of BS.

Unless you are there witnessing first hand all these things and no one else on the team does that, Then I agree.

How many lead in stories on the TD celebration from Marvin Harrison, the caused his team 15 yds, on ESPN.

Or Analysis on the Steve Smith dropped TD pass and punt return or Keyshawn's drop. TO has more catches, yds, and TDs the Keyshawn, yet ESPN has TO as one of the worst off season moves.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Ok we disagree.........

But what you write and the manner it comes across is that of a personal nature. Not unless you have been in constant contact, such as a player on the 49ers, Eagles, and Cowboys, do you the authority to write something about this player. If you were a former teammate then I apoligize, I'm wrong. But if your a fan like me and the info comes via media, then we eat from the same trough of BS.

Unless you are there witnessing first hand all these things and no one else on the team does that, Then I agree.

How many lead in stories on the TD celebration from Marvin Harrison, the caused his team 15 yds, on ESPN.

Or Analysis on the Steve Smith dropped TD pass and punt return or Keyshawn's drop. TO has more catches, yds, and TDs the Keyshawn, yet ESPN has TO as one of the worst off season moves.

Right, call Owens out if he deservers it, but call others out for the same.

You bring up good examples above, ... and what about Hines Ward fumbling inside the one at THE MOST critical time of the game.

The Squeelers would have been an onsides kick away from possible tying the game with a FG.

Why is he not blasted for that the way Owens was blasted for dropping a pass in the 3rd qtr ?

That's all I am saying, ... blast Owens if you feel the need, but be fair about it.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ok we disagree.........

But what you write and the manner it comes across is that of a personal nature. Not unless you have been in constant contact, such as a player on the 49ers, Eagles, and Cowboys, do you the authority to write something about this player. If you were a former teammate then I apoligize, I'm wrong. But if your a fan like me and the info comes via media, then we eat from the same trough of BS.

Unless you are there witnessing first hand all these things and no one else on the team does that, Then I agree.

How many lead in stories on the TD celebration from Marvin Harrison, the caused his team 15 yds, on ESPN.

Or Analysis on the Steve Smith dropped TD pass and punt return or Keyshawn's drop. TO has more catches, yds, and TDs the Keyshawn, yet ESPN has TO as one of the worst off season moves.

Believe what you want to believe but I'm not blind and have watched TO over the years I have seen his melt downs on the sideline I have seen the coaches shaking their head in amazesment over TO action and best of all I have heard TO says stupid things to the media and slam teammates. You may not think that is a big deal but I do. You sit there talking about other players well those players are not on this team and I don't care how they act that is a problem for their team and has no bearing at all about for the Cowboys. And again ESPN does not make TO do anything he does it himself so regardless if they report it or not does not change a damn thing.

 

[Doomsday101]

Right, call Owens out if he deservers it, but call others out for the same.

You bring up good examples above, ... and what about Hines Ward fumbling inside the one at THE MOST critical time of the game.

The Squeelers would have been an onsides kick away from possible tying the game with a FG.

Why is he not blasted for that the way Owens was blasted for dropping a pass in the 3rd qtr ?

That's all I am saying, ... blast Owens if you feel the need, but be fair about it.

When Hines Ward builds the same reputation that Owens has I'm sure they will. TO has been a pain for 11 year this is not some overnight deal. Your picking 1 play and saying well look at Hines Ward? hell I'm looking at 11 year of BS that is the differance.

 

[Stautner]

You could be right about Jimmy but right now that is not what Johnson has been saying. He has called TO a distraction to the Cowboys. Now if people want to say that Jimmy is only saying that because he works for FOX or what ever that is fine but going by what Jimmy is saying today I don't know if it is a sure thing that TO and Jimmy would have gotten along with each other. Who knows?

The thing is that I don't think Jimmy would have ever been in favor of signing TO to begin with - that's the impact Jimmy would likely have made.

But once TO found his way onto the team Jimmy would not have cut him - being a choir boy was never a priority for Jimmy, he liked players with egos, and above everything else, he wouldn't have let that kind of talent go.

That's not to say that Jimmy would NEVER have cut TO - if he were bashing coaches and teammates and ownership at press conferences and scheduled interviews like he did in Philly Jimmy (and Jerry) would almost certainly draw the line. But for dropping a few passes and a single end zone incident - no way.

 

[Doomsday101]

The funniest thing is before Dallas signed TO all I heard was TO knows this is his last chance so things will be different this time? Yeah Right

 

[Doomsday101]

The thing is that I don't think Jimmy would have ever been in favor of signing TO to begin with - that's the impact Jimmy would likely have made.

But once TO found his way onto the team Jimmy would not have cut him - being a choir boy was never a priority for Jimmy, he liked players with egos, and above everything else, he wouldn't have let that kind of talent go.

That's not to say that Jimmy would NEVER have cut TO - if he were bashing coaches and teammates and ownership at press conferences and scheduled interviews like he did in Philly Jimmy (and Jerry) would almost certainly draw the line. But for dropping a few passes and a single end zone incident - no way.

It is not about being a choir boy, I don't think Jimmy or any other decent HC would put up with a player telling his coaches you don't talk to me unless I talk to you 1st. I know Jimmy would put up with a lot but Jimmy or no other coach will allow a player to undermine their authority on a team and while Jimmy did give more leeway to guys like Irvin and Haley neither guy challenged Jimmy’s authority or how things were going to be done.

 

[braw]

Believe what you want to believe but I'm not blind and have watched TO over the years I have seen his melt downs on the sideline I have seen the coaches shaking their head in amazesment over TO action and best of all I have heard TO says stupid things to the media and slam teammates. You may not think that is a big deal but I do. You sit there talking about other players well those players are not on this team and I don't care how they act that is a problem for their team and has no bearing at all about for the Cowboys. And again ESPN does not make TO do anything he does it himself so regardless if they report it or not does not change a damn thing.

Believe what you want to believe but I'm not blind and have watched TO over the years I have seen his melt downs on the sideline I have seen the coaches shaking their head in amazesment over TO action and best of all I have heard TO says stupid things to the media and slam teammates.

Like I said you and I eat from the same BS trough the media feeds us. Because Your statement says I see therefore I believe....EVER HEARD of EDIT. Mind Freak really can levitate because I saw it on TV..

You may not think that is a big deal but I do. You sit there talking about other players well those players are not on this team and I don't care how they act that is a problem for their team and has no bearing at all about for the Cowboys

All you just said was TO has blasted his teammates here in Dallas because you don't care about other teams. I have yet to see him blast a Cowboy player or vice verse, what you did was use your past info on TO on other teams and pasted that onto the Cowboy player...Yet you don't care about other teams then why care what TO has done elsewhere....

And again ESPN does not make TO do anything he does it himself so regardless if they report it or not does not change a damn thing

If you don't believe me believe the coach of the Dallas Cowboys who told Ed Werder, " You guys are the perpetrators of all the distractions"...Again someone who is there day in day out and knows...not someone who sees and writes in blogs.

report it or not does not change a damn thing.

Like I said before you had your mind made up and TO never stood a chance...

WOW how can someone manipulate your words...edit and make you sound different:laugh2: