Laramey Tunsil & a $40 Million Dollar Offensive Line

[Verdict]

This is one case where the Cowboys have to draft for need with that first pick. When you're drafting #4 overall you're not having to reach when three DEs are rated in the top 12 players by most. We could trade down and pick up an extra pick and still have a shot at two of those DEs. We can't pass up a player that could help give us a pass rush for another O-lineman when our OL is the strength of the team. The whole point of the draft is to try and strengthen you're weaknesses and the Cowboys are weak on the DL. Why can't some of you get that? You can't win games consistently in the NFL without a pass rush.

Why does everyone believe you MUST get pass rush out of the DE position only, or that it MUST be the position that racks up the sacks? The Seahawks don't have a Demarcus Ware, but as a team they get a lot of pressure, ibcluding the interior. That is what makes them so dominant.

Ware helped make Dever great this year on defense. But on this team, with little help they could have doubled Ware and made him almost invisible.

 

[CCBoy]

If this draft boils down to Tunsil or Ramsey...I'm already way too excited.

 

[KJJ]

They can draft for need, and it usually results in drafting Shante Carver types. You don't ever draft for need unless it lines up with BPA. At least good teams don't. If you reach, you miss, you waste a pick, and then repeat the process.

Shante Carver was the 23rd pick and the Cowboys had a great team and took a chance on him. Where they were picking that year is where teams usually reach. How can you reach with the 4th overall pick? There's only going to be 3 players off the board when we're up. You have around 8 defensive players ranked in the top 12 players. When you're a 4-12 team that holes all over your defense you have to address it with a high pick. You can waste a pick picking the top rated defensive player we've been the and done it because the draft is a crapshoot.

 

[KJJ]

Why does everyone believe you MUST get pass rush out of the DE position only, or that it MUST be the position that racks up the sacks? The Seahawks don't have a Demarcus Ware, but as a team they get a lot of pressure, ibcluding the interior. That is what makes them so dominant.

Ware helped make Dever great this year on defense. But on this team, with little help they could have doubled Ware and made him almost invisible.

The Seahawks have a wealth of talent on the defense they have several terrific players which is why their defense was one of the best we've seen a couple of seasons ago. The 85 Bears didn't have a one guy you had to contend with they had several players that could get to the QB. One great pass rusher isn't going to make a great unit we found that out the years we had Ware. He helped Denver because they have other players like Von Miller that opponents have to contend with. One great player can be neutralized but when you have a couple of great pass rushers that creates serious matchup problems for an offense. It opens up opportunities for other defenders to get to the QB.

 

[Stash]

You've been reduced to this. lol You're frustrated we get it! I'm just going to wind you up even more.

You keep on trying. And getting your clock cleaned by much smarter people all over this board. The beat down and pantsing you're getting from @AdamJT13 is particularly entertaining!

 

[Stash]

If I'm backtracking provide the post with me punching holes in these QBs? See how easy it is to corner you? lol You want me to go back to find what I said but you won't dare provide my quote because everyone we'll see you either misunderstood my post or have an agenda.

Or the fact is that you simply spew out statements and then try to blame other people for "misunderstanding" them?

Yeah, I'm gonna go with that. The fact is that it's easy to see that the only thing you're good for is starting baseless, unsupported arguments with people all over this board.

 

[Stash]

I'll agree with part of your post. No one knows how much longer Romo will play. It might be 3 minutes into the next game or 5 to 6 more years. Neither are all that likely. The probability is that the realistic probability is 3 years plus or minus 1 year.

I'm taking the under on that. Again, just one fan's opinion with no way of knowing for sure, but his recent track record really scares me. And he'll definitely have a big target on him going forward.

But arguably that is also true of most established QBs, including Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ruthlessraper, etc. It is a risk to fail to draft one. But there is also some element of risk in drafting a player and having him sit behind Romo for 5 years and have to give him a second huge contract without knowing if he can even play, and in reality you didn't get any performance out of him during his first contract. So it isn't really that clear cut. The Cowboys can **** themselves no matter which way they go.

Sorry, but just a minute ago, you had Romo's "realistic probability" at "3 years plus or minus 1 year"? When did that become "5 years"?

Let's face it, if you think Romo is playing another 5 years, we have little to discuss and we'll just agree to disagree right there.

I'm not really sure why you think the Cowboys didn't develop Romo. Romo has played his best football the past few years. He hasn't played for any other team, so who else do you think developed him?

He was acquired by Payton and Parcells, his foundation and fundamentals as a pro came from them. Those coaches have pedigree and a record of quarterback success. This current bunch? Their track record reeks of failure after failure after failure. Our current 'QB coach' was exiled when Parcells arrived and only slithered back in after he was gone. A pretty damnining indictment right there.

We really haven't given the Cowboys a lot to work with at QB in terms of numbers, or talent to develop since Romo took over. I would say the jury is out on that one too. You might actually be right on that issue, but I don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion and have any confidence in that conclusion when we really haven't done much to try to develop one other than Romo.

Because these coaches are all involved in the process! Unless you want to think that they're all sitting back silently while Jerry Jones is forcing these quarterbacks on them? They were involved in the 5 years of failure quarterbacks who could win a single game when called upon. I mean does anybody think that Garrett wasn't involved in the process and didn't sign off on each and every one of these guys?

They thought Orton was a good idea, they wasted two years trying to mine fools' gold from Dustin Vaughan (another 'cheat the system' quarterback move), and they brought in Weeden, Cassel, and Moore. Anyone that wants to convince themselves otherwise is only lying to themselves. None of these moves are happening in a vacuum.

As a side note, how much different would people's opinons be if Green Bay hadn't given Rodgers his chance and he got out of Green Bay (which he wanted to do at one point due to lack of opportunity) or if after being cut Farve won another Lombardi at another location after Green Bay cut him. Either were entirely possible.

I fail to see the reason for this question?

 

[Verdict]

I'm taking the under on that. Again, just one fan's opinion with no way of knowing for sure, but his recent track record really scares me. And he'll definitely have a big target on him going forward.



Sorry, but just a minute ago, you had Romo's "realistic probability" at "3 years plus or minus 1 year"? When did that become "5 years"?

Let's face it, if you think Romo is playing another 5 years, we have little to discuss and we'll just agree to disagree right there.



He was acquired by Payton and Parcells, his foundation and fundamentals as a pro came from them. Those coaches have pedigree and a record of quarterback success. This current bunch? Their track record reeks of failure after failure after failure. Our current 'QB coach' was exiled when Parcells arrived and only slithered back in after he was gone. A pretty damnining indictment right there.



Because these coaches are all involved in the process! Unless you want to think that they're all sitting back silently while Jerry Jones is forcing these quarterbacks on them? They were involved in the 5 years of failure quarterbacks who could win a single game when called upon. I mean does anybody think that Garrett wasn't involved in the process and didn't sign off on each and every one of these guys?

They thought Orton was a good idea, they wasted two years trying to mine fools' gold from Dustin Vaughan (another 'cheat the system' quarterback move), and they brought in Weeden, Cassel, and Moore. Anyone that wants to convince themselves otherwise is only lying to themselves. None of these moves are happening in a vacuum.



I fail to see the reason for this question?

You have ignored the main premise of what I said, which was we have pretty much ignored the QB position is terms of both quality and quantity. Isn't it a fair interpretation of the facts that we haven't given the coaches much to work with other than Romo, and they have done a pretty good job of developing him? Itsn't that a real possibility?

 

[Verdict]

I'm taking the under on that. Again, just one fan's opinion with no way of knowing for sure, but his recent track record really scares me. And he'll definitely have a big target on him going forward.



Sorry, but just a minute ago, you had Romo's "realistic probability" at "3 years plus or minus 1 year"? When did that become "5 years"?

Let's face it, if you think Romo is playing another 5 years, we have little to discuss and we'll just agree to disagree right there.



He was acquired by Payton and Parcells, his foundation and fundamentals as a pro came from them. Those coaches have pedigree and a record of quarterback success. This current bunch? Their track record reeks of failure after failure after failure. Our current 'QB coach' was exiled when Parcells arrived and only slithered back in after he was gone. A pretty damnining indictment right there.



Because these coaches are all involved in the process! Unless you want to think that they're all sitting back silently while Jerry Jones is forcing these quarterbacks on them? They were involved in the 5 years of failure quarterbacks who could win a single game when called upon. I mean does anybody think that Garrett wasn't involved in the process and didn't sign off on each and every one of these guys?

They thought Orton was a good idea, they wasted two years trying to mine fools' gold from Dustin Vaughan (another 'cheat the system' quarterback move), and they brought in Weeden, Cassel, and Moore. Anyone that wants to convince themselves otherwise is only lying to themselves. None of these moves are happening in a vacuum.



I fail to see the reason for this question?

Do you reallly not get why I said that? Seriously?

 

[Stash]

You have ignored the main premise of what I said, which was we have pretty much ignored the QB position is terms of both quality and quantity.

Why? Because the team hasn't invested a premium draft pick in the position? They invested a 4th rounder in Stephen McGee and got zero to show for it. Nada, nothing. But, I know, easier to bag on the player than to question the coaching he received.

Isn't it a fair interpretation of the facts that we haven't given the coaches much to work with other than Romo, and they have done a pretty good job of developing him? Itsn't that a real possibility?

Romo was 'developed' and the starter before any of these guys ever got here. They inherited him, they didn't develop him. His foundation and fundamentals were set in place by far better coaches.

The fact is that Wade Wilson did have a 1st round draft pick to work with when he was in Chicago, so this notion of 'nothing to work with' is false. He turned that into Rex Grossman. But, I know, easier to bag on the player than to question the coaching he received.

And are we really expected to believe that these coaches 'desperate pleas' for help at quarterback are simply being mocked and laughed at by 'evil Jerry Jones'? C'mon! The fact is that these guys are signing off on each and every quarterback that passes through here, and all have been terrible failures.

It's time to stop continuing to point fingers at player-after-player - who have actually had success in the league - for the failures in Dallas and instead look at the factors that continue to remain constant.

 

[Stash]

Do you reallly not get why I said that? Seriously?

I guess so. I'll need you to clarify for me what you meant.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Quite honestly, we will have to draft Romo's replacement, OR get a castoff that has potential from another team. Teams aren't giving up a top 10 QB as a general rule. So while it is cheaper than getting a franchise QB through free agency, it is just about the only way you get one period.

So, yes, I think when Romo retires or gets cut, his replacement will likely cost less than Romo does now.

I can't say that I agree with this. I mean, if we are replacing him with a JAG, then I think this could be true but honestly, I look at what Osweiler signed for and I just have no faith that a QB of any worth will be cheaper then what Romo is currently playing for.

 

[Brooksey]

And fwiw, there's a couple of flaws in the articles logic. For starters, the numbers in the OP for Minnesota, Oakland, Pittsburgh, Philly and Houston lacks any context. For example, Tyron Smith in 2018 is scheduled to count 15 million against the cap, but he likely will be restructured to count less. The 5 teams used as an example, may be in a different cap situation and choose not to restructure and would rather pay the cost now. Even with that being said, it's worth noting that in 2018 Travis Frederick will likely make in excessive of 6.5 million. Why, because now in 2016 that would put him 8th among centers. Once salaries go up, it's very likely he'll make between 8-10 million, depending on how generous he's feeling. Zack Martin, could easily break 10 million. I just think this $40 million dollar sticker is a very conservative estimate.

It could very well be $45 million however it could very well be $37-38 million in cap hits depending on how they structure the contracts. I have Zach making 9 million (2nd highest in league) , Collins making 7.5 (top 10) and 4 million in backup money. I highly doubt Frederick will average a base salary of 10 million, not going to happen. He may average 8.5 (top 5) but I see Frederick signing a team friendly deal like Tyrone Smith did.

The point is we will be paying these interior guys new contracts either way, adding Tunsil is relatively inexpensive for the first five years and he has low bust potential. He would make about the same as Free is making now.

 

[erod]

If we're not getting a great trade offer, we absolutely should draft Tunsil.

Yep, I agree.

Especially considering the condition of Romo. Why not have the best protection and run blocking possible?

 

[Stash]

Yep, I agree.

Especially considering the condition of Romo. Why not have the best protection and run blocking possible?

As much as any other thoughts of 'helping Romo', Tunsil does that. If not more.

 

[Verdict]

I can't say that I agree with this. I mean, if we are replacing him with a JAG, then I think this could be true but honestly, I look at what Osweiler signed for and I just have no faith that a QB of any worth will be cheaper then what Romo is currently playing for.

Actually, I think you agree with me, but misunderstood what I was saying. Maybe I wasn't clear in my earlier post. I agree with you that free agency QBs are very expensive. I just don't think we can actually get an acceptable free agency replacement for Romo. I think his effective replacement will have to be drafted. So I think the replacement's cap number will be lower than Romo's cap number is now.

No one is letting a guy with much potential at QB get away since they are so scarce. The only other alternative would be to sign someone who other teams have given up on, for pocket change (like Manziel) and turn him around. The odds of that happening are probably worse than catching lightening in a bottle like we did with Romo. I hope that clarifies my earlier post.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Actually, I think you agree with me, but misunderstood what I was saying. Maybe I wasn't clear in my earlier post. I agree with you that free agency QBs are very expensive. I just don't think we can actually get an acceptable free agency replacement for Romo. I think his effective replacement will have to be drafted. So I think the replacement's cap number will be lower than Romo's cap number is now.

No one is letting a guy with much potential at QB get away since they are so scarce. The only other alternative would be to sign someone who other teams have given up on, for pocket change (like Manziel) and turn him around. The odds of that happening are probably worse than catching lightening in a bottle like we did with Romo. I hope that clarifies my earlier post.

No, I probably just misunderstood what you were saying. You probably stated it fine.

At the end of the day it's a pay me now or really, really pay me later kind of scenario.

 

[KJJ]

You keep on trying. And getting your clock cleaned by much smarter people all over this board. The beat down and pantsing you're getting from @AdamJT13 is particularly entertaining!

YI have you talking out your ace you're so frustrated. lol One of the longest posts I made to Adam that shot down every point he tried to make you gave me a "like" but claim I'm the one getting beatdown? He claimed the running game has little to do with winning and when I told him the Cowboys 12-4 season in 2014 was mainly due to the running game he disagreed. He's embarrassing himself just like you are. What you find entertaining is at least you're not the only one I'm making look bad.

 

[Stash]

I have you talking out your ace you're so frustrated. lol One of the longest posts I made to Adam that shot down every point he tried to make you gave me a "like" but claim I'm the one getting beatdown? He claimed the running game has little to do with winning and when I told him the Cowboys 12-4 season in 2014 was mainly due to the running game he disagreed. He's embarrassing himself just like you are. What you find entertaining is at least you're not the only one who I'm making look bad.

You keep thinking that while the rest of us laugh at you for playing the fool. Completely outclassed by more knowledgable fans at every turn, but apparently not smart enough to know it.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I am not sure that anything you said was right in this post. This OL get top dollars as it gets resigned. Jerry hasn't overspent in several years. Several. The year we signed Carr was the last one where we spent big in FA. We have been very small players in free agency since then, by choice.

He hasnt overspent in several years because he hasnt had the money. He hasnt had the money because of all the years he overspent. Didn he just resign Dez to some ridiculous contract? How about the DT that hasnt panned out? Witten is getting how much right now? Finally getting Wares money off the books? How about a breakdown of player salaries for the year. We have marginal talent, yet we are up against the cap every year. How do you get that way if not by spending poorly?

The three lineman in question will be garnering 8-10 million per year when they are resigned at least. That is 30 million. Then add in the price of Smith and Tunstil. Way over 40 million for the line. So what is it exactly that I am wrong about? The math? What?