Lebron James is no Michael Jordan

[CowboyRoy]

So had he lost in the eastern conference finals those 4 years, and had a 2-0 finals record, then it would be better?

Its better that he went to all those championships, but the fact that he keeps losing them is not a good thing. Now maybe you can make a case that this year he was hampered because of injuries, but he is still the best player on the planet and they were up 2-1 and they lost. And they had the size, the defense, the more physical team.

Lebron mailed in that last game in Cleveland. You can see he was simply not into it from the start. Where was the Lebron from the first 3 games? Where was the guy with that crazy determined look on his face like he had in Boston down 3-2?

That is just the way Lebron is. He almost gives up at one point. Checks out mentally. Like a spoiled little baby. And all he talked about the whole series is how they were undermanned. Pretty much saying that the rest of his supporting cast sucked.

As great as he is, Jordan he is NOT.

 

[Rockport]

Jordan was better. His competitiveness didn't allow him to lose. He knew how to close out games. James struggles in this area.

 

[khiladi]

No doubt, I seriously doubt Jackson would have went to LA if he hadn't had Shaq and Kobe. He probably would have stayed in retirement. Shaq and Kobe >>>> Jordan and Pippen.

Uh no, not even close... The Bulls during their championship run with Jordan and Pippen never lost three straight. That record is pretty much untouchable.

I also love how people forget that Golden State essentially played single coverage on Lebron this whole series and he didn't lock down anybody. His defense was actually sub-par.

 

[jterrell]

I cant tell you how happy I am that Lebron lost another finals. Rooting for him to lose is almost as fun as rooting for my Celtics to win.

Lebron certainly had a great playoffs and I found myself comparing him to Jordan more than I usually do. Then I watched a special yesterday on Michael Jordan. And there is no debate really. Jordan was better. No question. The things he did James simply doesnt and cannot do. And then Jordan never lost a finals either. Lebron 2-4?

His legacy may wind up being the biggest finals loser in NBA history. That would be fine with me.

I think Michael was the best player of all-time. Certainly most focused and driven to win.

In a lot of ways LeBron is simply a BETTER person than Jordan and that prevents him being a better player.
LeBron married his high school sweetheart. Carried his high school friends entourage style to business and personal success.
Is actively involved with his kids on a level that requires sacrifice and juggling. He actually has a life and is part of the people's life he most cares about in a meaningful way.

Arguing LeBron's finals losses as some negative is really stupid.
I mean in-comprehensively stupid.
I am a Mavs fan and beating LeBron was sublime.
Easy to enjoy beating the best.
And that one Finals was probably the only time LeBron has had more talent that he lost.

Jordan isn't getting kicked for how bad the Wizards were when we played for them right?
LeBron is taking Jordan-era Wizards talent to the NBA Finals.
LeBron was the best player in the Finals by a good margin.
But the top 10 players in this series were 7 or 8 players from GS and 2 from CLE.

LeBron left a Finals team and they went to the lottery.
He joined a lottery team and they went to the Finals.
Not even Jordan can make that claim.

 

[khiladi]

Dwight Howard in this era took his 'lottery team' to the Finals and beat Lebron's 'lottery team' in 2008 in the process...

BTW, the Wizards, Jordan was over 40 years old and before his knee injury, was essentially a jump-shooter and the Wizards actually had a winning record on were contending for the play-offs.

 

[jterrell]

Yep. And Rylie is very much that was also. Only goes somewhere to coach if the team is already championship ready. Smart no doubt if you can pull it off.

The Lakers didn't win with those same great players but minus Phil Jackson.

The Bulls went to 2 Eastern Conf Finals while Jordan was retired.
Phil's got 20 years as a coach and he has a 70% win percentage.
That is absurd.

His start as an executive has been totally trash tho so for those in love with hating you have that.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Its better that he went to all those championships, but the fact that he keeps losing them is not a good thing.

Obviously losing isn't good, but getting to the finals and losing should not be treated as worse than not making the playoffs or losing a round or 2 earlier. IMO, his 2-4 finals record isn't a negative at all, obviously not as good as 6-0, but 2-4 is better than 2-0.

Now maybe you can make a case that this year he was hampered because of injuries, but he is still the best player on the planet and they were up 2-1 and they lost. And they had the size, the defense, the more physical team.

Lebron mailed in that last game in Cleveland. You can see he was simply not into it from the start. Where was the Lebron from the first 3 games? Where was the guy with that crazy determined look on his face like he had in Boston down 3-2?

That is just the way Lebron is. He almost gives up at one point. Checks out mentally. Like a spoiled little baby. And all he talked about the whole series is how they were undermanned. Pretty much saying that the rest of his supporting cast sucked.

As great as he is, Jordan he is NOT.

As great as he is, Lebron is still human (so is Jordan), and maybe the wear and tear of six seasons of going to the finals as well as 1 Olympic gold medal caught up to him. You saw a guy that gave up, I saw a guy who had nothing left to give.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The Lakers didn't win with those same great players but minus Phil Jackson.

The Bulls went to 2 Eastern Conf Finals while Jordan was retired.
Phil's got 20 years as a coach and he has a 70% win percentage.
That is absurd.

His start as an executive has been totally trash tho so for those in love with hating you have that.

While I agree with your point, the Bulls did not go to 2 ECF while he was retired. They went to 1 in 1994. He was back in time for the 1995 playoffs, but Chicago was struggling that season. They were the 5th seed, winning 47 games, but were 34-31 before Jordan came back.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Jordan was better. His competitiveness didn't allow him to lose. He knew how to close out games. James struggles in this area.

Yea, Jordan was better, more competitive and knew how to close out games better than Lebron. Very few people argue that, but I doubt he beats the Spurs last year or Golden State this year with the teams Lebron had.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Arguing LeBron's finals losses as some negative is really stupid.
I mean in-comprehensively stupid.

This really cannot be said enough

 

[jterrell]

While I agree with your point, the Bulls did not go to 2 ECF while he was retired. They went to 1 in 1994. He was back in time for the 1995 playoffs, but Chicago was struggling that season. They were the 5th seed, winning 47 games, but were 34-31 before Jordan came back.

Sorry you are correct, It was Eastern conference Semifinals. Lost to Orlando

 

[Rogah]

I don't like LeBron. I am glad he lost (again). Having said that....

When Michael Jordan left the Bulls, they won 55 and went to the Eastern Conference Finals the next year.
When LeBron James left the Cavaliers, they went from the NBA Finals to arguably the worst team in basketball. When he left the Heat, they went from making the Finals 4 years in a row to missing the playoffs in the pathetic Eastern Conference.

If LeBron had a top-50 all-time teammate he was playing with over the past decade or so, he'd have a lot more rings too.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I don't like LeBron. I am glad he lost (again). Having said that....

When Michael Jordan left the Bulls, they won 55 and went to the Eastern Conference Finals the next year.
When LeBron James left the Cavaliers, they went from the NBA Finals to arguably the worst team in basketball. When he left the Heat, they went from making the Finals 4 years in a row to missing the playoffs in the pathetic Eastern Conference.

If LeBron had a top-50 all-time teammate he was playing with over the past decade or so, he'd have a lot more rings too.

And it's perfectly fine to feel this way, just don't ignore the truth

 

[Rogah]

And it's perfectly fine to feel this way, just don't ignore the truth

Obviously I am not ignoring the truth since everything I said was true. It cannot be denied that Jordan had remarkably superior talent around him, and remarkably superior coaching.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Obviously I am not ignoring the truth since everything I said was true. It cannot be denied that Jordan had remarkably superior talent around him, and remarkably superior coaching.

I was quoting you, but saying your POV is realistic, unlike others in the thread

 

[CowboyRoy]

Many millions would disagree, but I won't side with James in any Jordan argument.
This topic has been so debated I think people don't even bother any more.

Many Millions would disagree with what? How about being more specific. Getting involved in the conversation, being unspecific, then acting like you dont want to is nothing but annoying.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Obviously I am not ignoring the truth since everything I said was true. It cannot be denied that Jordan had remarkably superior talent around him, and remarkably superior coaching.

LOL...........Again I ask you.............Jordan had Pippen and Horace Grant and a bunch of role players? Who else? We already covered the fact that Jordan had better coaching.

Pippen and Horace Grant or Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh? Remarkably superior is nothing but a bunch of BS.

However............NONE of that changes the fact that Jordan was a better player then Lebron. Forget the championships, Jordan was better.

And cry all you want about talent around him and coaching........................Jordan still won 6 championships and never lost.

AGAIN......better era for basketball and much harder path to the finals for Jordan.

Lebron had to get through the Atlanta Hawks and the likes of the Chicago Bulls every year? Jordan had to get through the likes of Birds Celtics and Isaiah Thomas and the Bad Boys. Not even close my man.

But this is great. I get to listen to Lebron James lovers cry about Jordan for the rest of my life. Because Lebron just came up short again and took another hit to his fading sour legacy.

 

[bounce]

Honestly, comparing Jordan and Lebron shows that you didn't watch one, or either of them. Lebron's game is MUCH closer to Magic than Jordan.

And to whoever asked "who did Jordan play with besides Pippen?" Uh....Rodman? The greatest rebounder, one of the best defenders of all time...a member of that one hall in Springfield? There were three future Hall of Famers in the last three title teams for Chicago. Lebron's 2007 and 2015 Finals rosters didn't have anyone in the top 30 in the CURRENT LEAGUE.

Yes, Lebron is 2-4 in the Finals...but he's also been to 6 Finals. His first year (2007) and this one (2015) he had no business winning, so those are understandable losses. His rosters were comically outmatched in the Finals. The four in the middle, they just ran into good teams. The Mavs in 2011 and Spurs in 2014 were playing white-hot. So, they deserve a little bit of credit for those titles, more than Lebron losing.

What about Jordan getting knocked out by the Pistons two straight years?

It's ridiculous that anyone uses "I'm sorry, Lebron is no Jordan" as some sort of slight on Lebron. He may "never be Jordan," although it's subjective - but there's nobody even close to Lebron, either. There's no next Lebron anywhere in the game, and certainly not on the horizon.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Uh no, not even close... The Bulls during their championship run with Jordan and Pippen never lost three straight. That record is pretty much untouchable.

I also love how people forget that Golden State essentially played single coverage on Lebron this whole series and he didn't lock down anybody. His defense was actually sub-par.

Yah, well that I will disagree with. Lebron played great D for the most part and got that entire team playing great D.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Honestly, comparing Jordan and Lebron shows that you didn't watch one, or either of them. Lebron's game is MUCH closer to Magic than Jordan.

And to whoever asked "who did Jordan play with besides Pippen?" Uh....Rodman? The greatest rebounder, one of the best defenders of all time...a member of that one hall in Springfield?

Yes, Lebron is 2-4 in the Finals...but he's also been to 6 Finals. His first year (2007) and this one (2015) he had no business winning, so those are understandable losses. His rosters were comically outmatched in the Finals. The four in the middle, they just ran into good teams. The Mavs in 2011 and Spurs in 2014 were playing white-hot. So, they deserve a little bit of credit for those titles, more than Lebron losing.

What about Jordan getting knocked out by the Pistons two straight years?

It's ridiculous that anyone uses "I'm sorry, Lebron is no Jordan" as some sort of slight on Lebron. He may "never be Jordan," although it's subjective - but there's nobody even close to Lebron, either. There's no next Lebron anywhere in the game, and certainly not on the horizon.

LOL.........I have watched both of them my sour friend. The fact that Lebron may be more like Magic has NOTHING to do with the conversation. People compare them all the time as they do with many other players.

Understandable losses? I think we have a Lebron apologist on our hands. When the series was 2-1 Cleveland, it was all but certain they were winning. What happened? Lebron couldnt hold it together, thats what happened. Watch the last game again. He pretty much checked out.

White hot? Wow, you are really making nonsense up now.

Sorry, but "Im sorry, lebron is no Michael Jordan"

You may not like it, because you are a Lebron James apologist, but its a fact. Lebron is no Michael Jordan. Both as a player and as a champion. Jordan was clutch and at his best when it counts the most. Lebron? ummmmm...........not so much!!!