CowboyRoy
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physically domindant and bigger, but not more dominant. Jordan was more dominant in everything that he does.
Lebron James is no Michael Jordan
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physically domindant and bigger, but not more dominant. Jordan was more dominant in everything that he does.
LittleBoyBlue
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khiladi
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How would you even attribute that to Lebron? They made the trade mid-season to get Shumpert, because their defense on the wing was horrible and Masgov gave them inside help. The guy was shooting close to forty shots a game this series, i.e. all the energy to defend was placed on his teammates.
Even his homer Mark Jackson was calling out his defense and not a single time the whole series can one remember a single instance where Lebron locked anybody down. Ron Artest, when he was interviewed by the TV crew, after game 4 even said Lebron wasn't playing good team defense. Iggy was scoring double his average...
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khiladi
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Really, because Lebron was the third leading scorer against Dallas and had only 8 in game 6. And Jason Terry averaged more than him, when Lebron was covering him...
khiladi
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Lebron didn't make the play-offs his first two years, so any comparison to Jordan losing in the quarterfinals, while not acknowledging this point is utterly imbecilic.
Further, Jordan lost to the 1986 Celtics his second year, which was stacked at every position with a HoF player and is arguably considered by some to be the greatest team ever in the history of basketball. That was the season he came back from an injury that kept him sidelined essentially the whole season to lead those scrubs to the play-offs and push the Celtics to double-overtime while scoring 63, without a single 3 pointer. That Celtics team almost went undefeated at home, going 40-1. Jordan averaged over 40 that play-off series and he was so phenomenal Bird essentially said it was like God coming down to play on court. He played that same team the very next year again, with the same roster and the number 1 seed and Jordan still averaged mid-35. Charles Oakley was the second leading scorer on the Bulls that era, Charles Oakley...
Then Jordan ran into the Detroit Pistons, the "Bad Boys" that effectively came up with the "Jordan Rules" to stop the Bulls. They were throwing both Joe Dumars and one of the greatest defensive players in history, if not greatest in Dennis Rodman and then funneling him to doubles and triples, to get hammered. That was another HoF stacked roster and the year Jordan finally beat them, despite taking them to 7 game series the year before, they were still the number 1 ranked defense in points allowed. They were second in that division to the Bulls, who cemented themselves as the best team in the East.
To even compare this to Lebron's beginning journey is an utter joke. And even if we talk about Lebron's 2007 roster in particular, it wasn't as bad as people claim. In fact, when he beat the Pistons, TWICE he wasn't the leading scorer and in game 7, after the game Lebron has his phenomenal 4th quarter, Lebron was outscored by plus 10 by Gibson on his squad who shot at 81%. That was the year the Pistons didn't have DPOY Ben Wallace even playing. Ilgaukus for example had 20+ in game 1 and Lebron had 10. And as I said, Dwight Howard took his team to the finals the very next year beating Lebron's roster and the talent he had playing alongside him was essentially the same as Lebron.
Everybody talking about injuries, as if the Bulls, the only competition to the Miami Heat during that era in the East lost Derrick Rose for two plus years. Lebron homers consistently have no problems saying that Lebron beats the Bulls. Two years ago, he faced a Charlotte Hornets team that lost Al Jefferson in game 1 to an injury. Atlanta this year, lost Korver and Horford and even the Bulls, Gasol was out a game and Noah, who was actually the main reason for the scrub play of the Bulls, was playing with shot knees. When Indiana was a 'threat', Roy Hibbert was playing like utter trash. The Wizards this season against Atlanta, lost John Wall when they were playing their best stretch of basketball during the play-offs.
The irony is that a non-defense Kyrie Irving, a guy who never sniffed the play-offs and led an average 20 win team, is supposedly the guy that made Lebron lose. Even Love was supposedly not 'fitting in' mid-season. It was that trade that actually game them perimeter defense in Shumpert, height with Masgov and scoring off the bench with Smith. They were 1-9 with just Love and Irving playing.
Irving got injured when they were already down 7 in OT. And ironically, Bogut wasn't even on the floor and he was the main reason GS really struggled. If they benched him after game 1, that series most likely would have been a sweep. It was essentially 4-5 with that guy on the floor.
Jordan had two crack-heads on his roster the first two years and if anybody had a scrub roster, it was him. And Jordan played top 5 defenses every year to get to the championship game during that era.
Further, Jordan lost to the 1986 Celtics his second year, which was stacked at every position with a HoF player and is arguably considered by some to be the greatest team ever in the history of basketball. That was the season he came back from an injury that kept him sidelined essentially the whole season to lead those scrubs to the play-offs and push the Celtics to double-overtime while scoring 63, without a single 3 pointer. That Celtics team almost went undefeated at home, going 40-1. Jordan averaged over 40 that play-off series and he was so phenomenal Bird essentially said it was like God coming down to play on court. He played that same team the very next year again, with the same roster and the number 1 seed and Jordan still averaged mid-35. Charles Oakley was the second leading scorer on the Bulls that era, Charles Oakley...
Then Jordan ran into the Detroit Pistons, the "Bad Boys" that effectively came up with the "Jordan Rules" to stop the Bulls. They were throwing both Joe Dumars and one of the greatest defensive players in history, if not greatest in Dennis Rodman and then funneling him to doubles and triples, to get hammered. That was another HoF stacked roster and the year Jordan finally beat them, despite taking them to 7 game series the year before, they were still the number 1 ranked defense in points allowed. They were second in that division to the Bulls, who cemented themselves as the best team in the East.
To even compare this to Lebron's beginning journey is an utter joke. And even if we talk about Lebron's 2007 roster in particular, it wasn't as bad as people claim. In fact, when he beat the Pistons, TWICE he wasn't the leading scorer and in game 7, after the game Lebron has his phenomenal 4th quarter, Lebron was outscored by plus 10 by Gibson on his squad who shot at 81%. That was the year the Pistons didn't have DPOY Ben Wallace even playing. Ilgaukus for example had 20+ in game 1 and Lebron had 10. And as I said, Dwight Howard took his team to the finals the very next year beating Lebron's roster and the talent he had playing alongside him was essentially the same as Lebron.
Everybody talking about injuries, as if the Bulls, the only competition to the Miami Heat during that era in the East lost Derrick Rose for two plus years. Lebron homers consistently have no problems saying that Lebron beats the Bulls. Two years ago, he faced a Charlotte Hornets team that lost Al Jefferson in game 1 to an injury. Atlanta this year, lost Korver and Horford and even the Bulls, Gasol was out a game and Noah, who was actually the main reason for the scrub play of the Bulls, was playing with shot knees. When Indiana was a 'threat', Roy Hibbert was playing like utter trash. The Wizards this season against Atlanta, lost John Wall when they were playing their best stretch of basketball during the play-offs.
The irony is that a non-defense Kyrie Irving, a guy who never sniffed the play-offs and led an average 20 win team, is supposedly the guy that made Lebron lose. Even Love was supposedly not 'fitting in' mid-season. It was that trade that actually game them perimeter defense in Shumpert, height with Masgov and scoring off the bench with Smith. They were 1-9 with just Love and Irving playing.
Irving got injured when they were already down 7 in OT. And ironically, Bogut wasn't even on the floor and he was the main reason GS really struggled. If they benched him after game 1, that series most likely would have been a sweep. It was essentially 4-5 with that guy on the floor.
Jordan had two crack-heads on his roster the first two years and if anybody had a scrub roster, it was him. And Jordan played top 5 defenses every year to get to the championship game during that era.
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khiladi
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BTW, teams averaged around 25 three pointers a game. During Jordan's first run, it was around 5 or 6. 'Physical' Lebron has already taken 2000 more three pointers than Jordan, including the Wizard years.
They didn't have a defensive three second rule and they could hand-check, guiding the offensive player in a particular direction. You've got PGs now on a regular basis leading the lead in scoring, Tony Parker doing it twice. I believe around 8 of 20 players to lead in scoring from the paint the last few years has been PGs. Spacing is at an all-time high...
There is a reason Larry Brown, another HoF coach, teased that Jordan would average 50 in today's rules.
You give Jordan the single-coverage that Lebron was seeing these Finals, it would be over. He wouldn't shoot in the thirty percentile either nor would he probably get 'fatigued' in the fourth where he would disappear crunch time.
They didn't have a defensive three second rule and they could hand-check, guiding the offensive player in a particular direction. You've got PGs now on a regular basis leading the lead in scoring, Tony Parker doing it twice. I believe around 8 of 20 players to lead in scoring from the paint the last few years has been PGs. Spacing is at an all-time high...
There is a reason Larry Brown, another HoF coach, teased that Jordan would average 50 in today's rules.
You give Jordan the single-coverage that Lebron was seeing these Finals, it would be over. He wouldn't shoot in the thirty percentile either nor would he probably get 'fatigued' in the fourth where he would disappear crunch time.
jterrell
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just stop. watching kobe and mj on dynasties is a far cry from watching lebron and this version of the cavs.
when miami was winning back to back titles no one was saying they were beatable.
and they still did that with a mediocre head coach and little depth.
kobe is a tremendous scorer. that is pretty much it. he doesn't make anyone else better beyond reducing scoring load for them.
that's why all-time PER shows jordan 1, lebron 2 and kobe 19.
jterrell
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LittleBoyBlue
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No.
jterrell
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CowboyRoy
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Lebron=pouting prima dona. 2-4 in the finals. Enough said.
CowboyRoy
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He was blocking shots, making steals. And theif defense was not good in the regular season. They locked down in the playoffs. Good leadership and effort by James, but like the other year, he simply couldnt finish it. Hes like a big baby.
CowboyRoy
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So your saying he faked injuries so that he could lose in the finals? Im not seeing any of that.
khiladi
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Masgov and Tristan averaged more blocks than he did. Shumpert led the team in steals and Delly's numbers were right where Lebron as at. Delly got an IV playing defense... Lebron was essentially hogging the ball when they had a clear height advantage in Masgov, which is why he scored 27 in game 5.
Again, his team defense was awful.
khiladi
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YosemiteSam
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It's a team game. If Wade is shooting, then LeBron is not. Only one person can shoot at a time. Clearly, Riley didn't demand that LeBron shoot every shot.
YosemiteSam
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It was all over the news. Maybe not in South Florida where they probably wouldn't poop on the home team and piss fans off. The rest of the world was well aware of it. My favorite was when he faked sickness and acted like he could barely walk, only to come out and score something like 30 in the second half.
LittleBoyBlue
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Nooooooo
LittleBoyBlue
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