Lebron James is no Michael Jordan

[CowboyRoy]

Honestly, comparing Jordan and Lebron shows that you didn't watch one, or either of them. Lebron's game is MUCH closer to Magic than Jordan.

And to whoever asked "who did Jordan play with besides Pippen?" Uh....Rodman? The greatest rebounder, one of the best defenders of all time...a member of that one hall in Springfield? There were three future Hall of Famers in the last three title teams for Chicago. Lebron's 2007 and 2015 Finals rosters didn't have anyone in the top 30 in the CURRENT LEAGUE.

Yes, Lebron is 2-4 in the Finals...but he's also been to 6 Finals. His first year (2007) and this one (2015) he had no business winning, so those are understandable losses. His rosters were comically outmatched in the Finals. The four in the middle, they just ran into good teams. The Mavs in 2011 and Spurs in 2014 were playing white-hot. So, they deserve a little bit of credit for those titles, more than Lebron losing.

What about Jordan getting knocked out by the Pistons two straight years?

It's ridiculous that anyone uses "I'm sorry, Lebron is no Jordan" as some sort of slight on Lebron. He may "never be Jordan," although it's subjective - but there's nobody even close to Lebron, either. There's no next Lebron anywhere in the game, and certainly not on the horizon.

What about Jordan getting knocked out by the Pistons two straight years?

What about it? Thats my point exactly. Jordan had to get through the Piston and the Celtics most year and he still won 6 championships.

If Jordan had to play against the Atlanta Hawks to get into the finals he would have won a lot more. Are you seeing that point clearly?

 

[CowboyRoy]

The Lakers didn't win with those same great players but minus Phil Jackson.

The Bulls went to 2 Eastern Conf Finals while Jordan was retired.
Phil's got 20 years as a coach and he has a 70% win percentage.
That is absurd.

His start as an executive has been totally trash tho so for those in love with hating you have that.

I do hate Lebron James. He is way too full of himself and it comes across terribly. ALSO in THAT way he is not Michael Jordan. Jordan was a lovable champion. Lebron is a conceited punk.

I jump up and down with glee every time he loses another championship. Its almost a yearly event at this rate. The only think better would be watching the Celtics hang another banner.

By the way.......Lebron pretty much sign with any team he wants to and any team. So why did he pick Cleveland with Blatt? Maybe he got too cocky thinking he didnt need a great coach. Knowing the way he is, he probably wanted to prove to everyone that he could even win it all with a bad coach. Another blunder for Lebron James. Another loss in the finals.

What a legacy. "yah, but at least he got to the finals". Yah, that is pretty much his legacy at this point.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

this thread is silly.... no one is Michael Jordan.
James is James.

 

[DFWJC]

Many Millions would disagree with what? How about being more specific. Getting involved in the conversation, being unspecific, then acting like you dont want to is nothing but annoying.

Come on Roy
You really are trying to start a fight aren't you...and against someone who actually agrees with you.

Do you not think there are a ton of people that think LeBron can guard all five positions, can pass with the best of them, can rebound well, can score almost at will?
I prefer Jordan, but this is not some topic that is universally a slam dunk. There are too many great basketball minds to bother counting that say Lebron overall is better. There may be more that disagree, but my point is that this is a heavily debated topic.
I'm a huge Jordan fan and maybe only one person on this board might possibly know him a s well as I do. (maybe ABQ?) But I'm not blind to the general arguments for Lebron.

I figured most knowledgeable fans had heard all the arguments at least 100 times over the last 3 years.
Why get so bent out of shape?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Obviously losing isn't good, but getting to the finals and losing should not be treated as worse than not making the playoffs or losing a round or 2 earlier. IMO, his 2-4 finals record isn't a negative at all, obviously not as good as 6-0, but 2-4 is better than 2-0.



As great as he is, Lebron is still human (so is Jordan), and maybe the wear and tear of six seasons of going to the finals as well as 1 Olympic gold medal caught up to him. You saw a guy that gave up, I saw a guy who had nothing left to give.

Or maybe Lebron just isnt Michael Jordan. Never was and never will be. There never will be. Greatest player of all time. I give Lebron credit. He came close..........but no dice.

And lebron basically can pick wherever he wants to go every year. We live in that age of the NBA. He basically hand picks who he wants to play with him. And he still cant get it done.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You really are trying to start a fight aren't you...and against someone who actually agrees with you.

Do you not think there are a ton of people that think LeBron can guard all five positions, can pass with the best of them, can rebound well, can score almost at will?
I prefer Jordan, but this not some topic that is universally a slam dunk. There are too many great basketball minds to bother counting that say Lebron overall is better. There may be more that disagree, but my point is that this is a heavily debated topic.
I'm a huge Jordan fan and maybe only one person on this board might possibly know him a s well as I do. (maybe ABQ?) But I'm blind to the general arguments for Lebron.

I figured most knowledgeable fans had heard all the arguments at least 100 times over the last 3 years.
Why get so bent out of shape?

Well it worked.

Anyway............I just dont like Lebron. Im happy every time he loses AGAIN.

As far as the millions...........yah, I am sure the new generation slobber all over Lebron and think he is the best thing EVER. But those are kids that never saw Jordan play and dont remember that era of basketball. The golden age of hoops. What a time. If Lebron had played in it, he would have just been another great player in the game.

Jordan, Bird, Magic, Akeem, Ewing, Shaq, ect....ect........

 

[bounce]

LOL.........I have watched both of them my sour friend. The fact that Lebron may be more like Magic has NOTHING to do with the conversation. People compare them all the time as they do with many other players.

Understandable losses? I think we have a Lebron apologist on our hands. When the series was 2-1 Cleveland, it was all but certain they were winning. What happened? Lebron couldnt hold it together, thats what happened. Watch the last game again. He pretty much checked out.

White hot? Wow, you are really making nonsense up now.

Sorry, but "Im sorry, lebron is no Michael Jordan"

You may not like it, because you are a Lebron James apologist, but its a fact. Lebron is no Michael Jordan. Both as a player and as a champion. Jordan was clutch and at his best when it counts the most. Lebron? ummmmm...........not so much!!!

This is absolute absurdity. For as much as a "Lebron apologist" as anyone in here is, you're blinded by your "anti-Lebron" agenda. When the series was 2-1 Cleveland, who said it was over? Seriously. Find me any credible sources that predicted the Cavs had it in the bag. Most of them thought the Cavs had played over their heads, and were wondering if it was sustainable.

As for white-hot, the Spurs had the biggest point differential in playoff history. The 2011 Mavericks went 16-5, only losing three games after round 1. What is your definition of white-hot, if you don't get that?

And since you glossed over it, you mention that "besides Pippen (a hall of famer, and one of the best wing players of all-time), who did Jordan have?" Again...he had Dennis Rodman.

In 95-96, Jordan and Pippen were both All-NBA first team players. And Jordan, Pippen and Rodman were all-NBA first team defense. They also had Kukoc, who was the 6th man of the year. Three of their five starters were all-NBA first team defense, two were all-NBA first team, and they had the top bench guy. Not exactly the "surrounded by role players" argument you're digging in on.

I'm not arguing that Jordan is the best of all-time. I don't think you'll find many people who argue that. But to act like Lebron isn't even worthy of being in the discussion is asinine, at best.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Come on Roy
You really are trying to start a fight aren't you...and against someone who actually agrees with you.

Do you not think there are a ton of people that think LeBron can guard all five positions, can pass with the best of them, can rebound well, can score almost at will?
I prefer Jordan, but this is not some topic that is universally a slam dunk. There are too many great basketball minds to bother counting that say Lebron overall is better. There may be more that disagree, but my point is that this is a heavily debated topic.
I'm a huge Jordan fan and maybe only one person on this board might possibly know him a s well as I do. (maybe ABQ?) But I'm not blind to the general arguments for Lebron.

I figured most knowledgeable fans had heard all the arguments at least 100 times over the last 3 years.
Why get so bent out of shape?

Heck we barely even have real centers in todays game. I would like to see how easily Lebron would get to the rim with a young Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Or how about Ewing, Mason and the boys in NY. How about Sally, Lambier, Rodman and the Bad Boys? Dekimbe Motumbo?

Lebron is a walking offensive foul. On 80% of his drives, he basically shoves the guy or pushes them out of the way on the way to the hoop. And he is doing all this in a kinder, gentler NBA where the rules have been altered to basically a no touch league.

So you cant touch him, he can push you out of the way, and people are playing small ball with an absence of legitimate centers in the NBA. Couple that with the fact that the East has been a joke the last 6 years he has made the finals.

Now he is still a GREAT player and the best in the game. But there is no excuse for him winning only 2 championships if 6 trips.

 

[CowboyRoy]

This is absolute absurdity. For as much as a "Lebron apologist" as anyone in here is, you're blinded by your "anti-Lebron" agenda. When the series was 2-1 Cleveland, who said it was over? Seriously. Find me any credible sources that predicted the Cavs had it in the bag. Most of them thought the Cavs had played over their heads, and were wondering if it was sustainable.

As for white-hot, the Spurs had the biggest point differential in playoff history. The 2011 Mavericks went 16-5, only losing three games after round 1. What is your definition of white-hot, if you don't get that?

And since you glossed over it, you mention that "besides Pippen (a hall of famer, and one of the best wing players of all-time), who did Jordan have?" Again...he had Dennis Rodman.

In 95-96, Jordan and Pippen were both All-NBA first team players. And Jordan, Pippen and Rodman were all-NBA first team defense. They also had Kukoc, who was the 6th man of the year. Three of their five starters were all-NBA first team defense, two were all-NBA first team, and they had the top bench guy. Not exactly the "surrounded by role players" argument you're digging in on.

I'm not arguing that Jordan is the best of all-time. I don't think you'll find many people who argue that. But to act like Lebron isn't even worthy of being in the discussion is asinine, at best.

White hot his just an apologetic excuse for the Lebron apologists. Do you think Jordan never played any hot teams? Cmon give me a break. Jordan simply did what he had to do EVERY time.

And as far as me saying Lebron shouldnt be in the discussion, that is a total joke. He is in the discussion. This IS the discussion.

Lebron is great. One of the top 5 all time. Maybe top 3.........But Jordan is better.

Hey, I am a Celtic and a big Bird guy, and I would probably lean towards Lebron at small forward over Bird.

This Jordan vs Lebron my man. And Jordan wins. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[CowboyRoy]

This is absolute absurdity. For as much as a "Lebron apologist" as anyone in here is, you're blinded by your "anti-Lebron" agenda. When the series was 2-1 Cleveland, who said it was over? Seriously. Find me any credible sources that predicted the Cavs had it in the bag. Most of them thought the Cavs had played over their heads, and were wondering if it was sustainable.

As for white-hot, the Spurs had the biggest point differential in playoff history. The 2011 Mavericks went 16-5, only losing three games after round 1. What is your definition of white-hot, if you don't get that?

And since you glossed over it, you mention that "besides Pippen (a hall of famer, and one of the best wing players of all-time), who did Jordan have?" Again...he had Dennis Rodman.

In 95-96, Jordan and Pippen were both All-NBA first team players. And Jordan, Pippen and Rodman were all-NBA first team defense. They also had Kukoc, who was the 6th man of the year. Three of their five starters were all-NBA first team defense, two were all-NBA first team, and they had the top bench guy. Not exactly the "surrounded by role players" argument you're digging in on.

I'm not arguing that Jordan is the best of all-time. I don't think you'll find many people who argue that. But to act like Lebron isn't even worthy of being in the discussion is asinine, at best.

And um................yah he had Rodman, but not when he had Grant. He never had Pippen, Grant and Rodman. He had two All Stars at his side every year he won it. Same as Lebron minus that first finals appearance by Lebron. Now granted the injuries this year derailed Lebron. But still, he was up 2-1 and had the momentum and the home court, and they blew it.

 

[Rogah]

I was quoting you, but saying your POV is realistic, unlike others in the thread

ok my bad, misunderstood your post.

 

[Rogah]

LOL...........Again I ask you.............Jordan had Pippen and Horace Grant and a bunch of role players? Who else?

Oh I seem to remember a fella named Rodman helping out for a couple years.

And cry all you want about talent around him and coaching........................Jordan still won 6 championships and never lost.

Jordan lost a bunch of times. Never in the finals, but he lost a bunch of times. I'd sure like someone to explain to me how losing in the quarterfinals is somehow more impressive than losing in the finals.

Lebron had to get through the Atlanta Hawks and the likes of the Chicago Bulls every year? Jordan had to get through the likes of Birds Celtics and Isaiah Thomas and the Bad Boys. Not even close my man.

You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts. Jordan was 0-2 against Bird's Celtics and 1-3 against the Bad Boys in the playoffs, so you can drop the pretense that he dominated all comers.

It was only after those 2 teams declined that Jordan took over a talentless NBA. Who was Jordan's biggest nemesis of his championship runs? Patrick Ewing? Don't make me laugh.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

For starters, when the best thing your detractors have to say is you aren't Michael Jordan, then I think you're doing pretty good for your self. Second, people really overate championship losses and by doing that, you are punishing people for winning. I would love for someone to explain why Lebron's legacy would be better viewed if he lost in the eastern conference finals those 4 years

True. But he ain't Kobe either.

Can't overrate or underrate championships losses. Miami was it. He should have had 4 straight.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Oh I seem to remember a fella named Rodman helping out for a couple years.
Jordan lost a bunch of times. Never in the finals, but he lost a bunch of times. I'd sure like someone to explain to me how losing in the quarterfinals is somehow more impressive than losing in the finals.
You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts. Jordan was 0-2 against Bird's Celtics and 1-3 against the Bad Boys in the playoffs, so you can drop the pretense that he dominated all comers.

It was only after those 2 teams declined that Jordan took over a talentless NBA. Who was Jordan's biggest nemesis of his championship runs? Patrick Ewing? Don't make me laugh.

That was early on. When Jordan figured out how to make the players around him better. He became greater. Not those teams declining.

 

[Rogah]

That was early on. When Jordan figured out how to make the players around him better. He became greater. Not those teams declining.

Early on? How long do you get to consider a guy's career as "early on"? In his first 6 years as a pro, he was 0-5 against the Celtics and Pistons in the playoffs. Those 6 years represent almost half his career as a Bull.

Once Jordan started winning, Bird's Celtics no longer existed and the Bad Boys were well into the back-9. So the individual who said "Jordan had to get through the likes of Birds Celtics and Isaiah Thomas and the Bad Boys" as if that was an annual occurrence is simply mistaken.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Or maybe Lebron just isnt Michael Jordan. Never was and never will be. There never will be. Greatest player of all time. I give Lebron credit. He came close..........but no dice.

And lebron basically can pick wherever he wants to go every year. We live in that age of the NBA. He basically hand picks who he wants to play with him. And he still cant get it done.

More often than not an adult who has seen both play and has no bias against either will say MJ > LBJ and you won't here me say other wise

 

[DFWJC]

Heck we barely even have real centers in todays game. I would like to see how easily Lebron would get to the rim with a young Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Or how about Ewing, Mason and the boys in NY. How about Sally, Lambier, Rodman and the Bad Boys? Dekimbe Motumbo?

Lebron is a walking offensive foul. On 80% of his drives, he basically shoves the guy or pushes them out of the way on the way to the hoop. And he is doing all this in a kinder, gentler NBA where the rules have been altered to basically a no touch league.

So you cant touch him, he can push you out of the way, and people are playing small ball with an absence of legitimate centers in the NBA. Couple that with the fact that the East has been a joke the last 6 years he has made the finals.

Now he is still a GREAT player and the best in the game. But there is no excuse for him winning only 2 championships if 6 trips.

Interior players were way better back then for sure.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

True. But he ain't Kobe either.

Can't overrate or underrate championships losses. Miami was it. He should have had 4 straight.

Can't agree with that one at all

 

[Manwiththeplan]

That was early on. When Jordan figured out how to make the players around him better. He became greater. Not those teams declining.

As a Michael Jordan fan, I have to admit, that there's a little bit from column A and a little bit from column B

 

[Manwiththeplan]

What about Jordan getting knocked out by the Pistons two straight years?

What about it? Thats my point exactly. Jordan had to get through the Piston and the Celtics most year and he still won 6 championships.

If Jordan had to play against the Atlanta Hawks to get into the finals he would have won a lot more. Are you seeing that point clearly?

Not if those Laker teams where waiting for him. Maybe in 1989, where at that point Kareem was a role player and Magic missed half the series, but they certainly don't beat LA in any other year