LennyP Tipsheet: Vince Young...reconsidering?

[Cbz40]

QB is one position I'm fairly certain that we won't be drafting.

There is a 1k to 1 shot that we would draft Young. but what the hey!

I think it's an interesting discussion for a Friday night.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

ever give a thought to the immense talent he is surrounded by and how horrible the Big 12 is this year? UT has about 10 top 5 recruiting classes in a row with All Americans on their bench. The Big 12 was especially bad this year.
Maybe that has something to do with Young's success this year also?
I've watched most of UT's games this year and Young's scrambling ability does amaze me. He's an electrifying athlete. I just think his passing game still sucks. I still think he makes bad passing decisions and is confused by good defensive schemes and I haven't ever seen him effectively, consistently use a short or intermediate passing game.
But then again, I'm not jaded by UT homerism.
I feel pretty safe saying he'll never be an elite NFL QB. I really don't think he'll be a very good pro-QB.
Give me the guy who had to hang in the pocket, throw to his 3rd or 4th reciever, and rely on his brain over his athleticism to win games. That's the guy I want as QB.

Couldn't agree more! Well said But I think he will be a top 5 pick. Denny Green will probably draft him if he is there. He loves athleticism.

 

[BlueWave]

He reminds me more of Randall Cunningham than Michael Vick. More accurate than Vick, but slow throwing motion and more of a long stride runner.

Reminds me of Akili Smith......out of the league.

 

[jterrell]

Okay, I wasnt really sure who it was and when it happened, just remembered it cause just a little hissy fit.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Actually the deal with Perriloux was that he was knocking Young as Texas lost to OU(said you couldn't blame the coach because the QB was playing poorly) and said he would be ready to come in and play as a freshman, then all of a sudden Young caught fire and really hasn't had a bad game since. Ryan got a little scared and backtracked to LSU who didn't really have a proven guy there like Young.

AFAIK Young has never intended to leave college early and never even hinted at it until now. Before last season's bowl game he was considered by most a better WR prospect than QB on the next level.

I still think he would be better served by coming back. Many successful NFL QBs did the 4 years in college.
Texas is still going to be good and he has a better rapport with his Wrs who are all returning except 1.

It didn't hurt Lienart to return and won't Young IMHO. He is poised to not only win but to be good with Texas again being the league favorite and a pre-season top 5 squad.

If he does come out I would not at all be shocked to him go to the Texans after a trade down.

 

[jterrell]

too bad. If you have watched football, there has been many, many college QBs that were QBs, but once they got to the NFL they became a WR. Matt Jones remember him the QB from Arkansas? He is now a WR. He was a better QB than Young. The only difference is Young plays with a university that can get more talented athlete to put around him than Arkansas could put around Matt Jones.

Say what you want, but Vince is only impressive as a talented Athlete, but as a QB, he is not impressive.

Thats a completely ignorant statement.

Ignorant of facts that is.

Matt Jones had no where near the arm of Vince Young. Not even close. He was just as good or better as a raw athlete but as a QB it was all about his mobility not his QB skills.

 

[Kangaroo]

For the life of me I can never understand this mentality.

Serious....Why are you sure that he will be a suck arse QB, which I am assuming you think that because of the word "surprised".

I dont know

You dont know

Vince Young doesnt even know

It is easy why Vince's game does not translate to the Pro's very well. He has a long slow side arm delivery with a low release point

His foot work for a QB is not very good

Vince goes through periods where he tends to shot put the balls this has a lot to do with his sidearm mechanics

Vince as an NFL QB Prospect is horrid and anyone drafting him in the 1st round is stupid he should rate about the 3rd round or lower as a QB in the draft

Yes he works hard and is an athelete so was Matt Jones (Razor back who had a better throwing motion imo); That is what I see with Vince except I do not think Vince is as fast as Jones and is more of a strider

 

[DanTanna]

Ask Roy Williams of the Detroit Lions if he would want Vince as his QB. Roy entered the draft with newly learned great blocking skills - he had a whole season of practice.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

It is easy why Vince's game does not translate to the Pro's very well. He has a long slow side arm delivery with a low release point

His foot work for a QB is not very good

Vince goes through periods where he tends to shot put the balls this has a lot to do with his sidearm mechanics

Vince as an NFL QB Prospect is horrid and anyone drafting him in the 1st round is stupid he should rate about the 3rd round or lower as a QB in the draft

Yes he works hard and is an athelete so was Matt Jones (Razor back who had a better throwing motion imo); That is what I see with Vince except I do not think Vince is as fast as Jones and is more of a strider

Why do you guys keep putting Matt Jones in this conversation?

Matt Jones was never a prospect at QB like Vince Young.

Glad to know your opinion, I just dont share it.

- Mike G.

 

[gbrittain]

Why do you guys keep putting Matt Jones in this conversation?

Matt Jones was never a prospect at QB like Vince Young.

Glad to know your opinion, I just dont share it.

- Mike G.

Any comparisons between Matt Jones and Vince Young should be made while comparing Matt Leinart to Braylon Edwards.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Who cares? The man will never play QB in the NFL, not only does he not have NFL accuracy, but he takes way to many hits to last in the NFL.

 

[gbrittain]

Who cares? The man will never play QB in the NFL, not only does he not have NFL accuracy, but he takes way to many hits to last in the NFL.

I am far from being sold that he will be a NFL star or average for that matter, but to say he will never play QB in the NFL is outrageous.

He will be drafted in the top 10 of the draft and he will be drafted to play QB. The team that invests a top 10 pick will give him every chance to succeed.

Just ask Harrington, Boller and Tim Couch just to name a few.

 

[Da Hammer]

I believe he will be a great QB in the NFL because he has shown amazing work ethic at Texas and is blessed with God given talent. He made a giant leap from last year to this year and i think he should stay for his senior year at Texas to work on becoming a bit better on his accuracy. If he stays i have no doubt that by the end of next year not only will he have added a lot to his passing game but he will be a top 3 pick. The thing that most impresses me is, his ability to avoid so many tackles at his size and then run with it for big yardage or just buy himself a little extra time for a long bomb down the field. So PLEASE Young don't listen to the agents tryin to get you to go Pro and stay for your Senior year. Plus if he stays he has a chance to win 2 Heisman trophies, and 2 National Championships

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Who cares? The man will never play QB in the NFL, not only does he not have NFL accuracy, but he takes way to many hits to last in the NFL.

Check who originally started the thread. The person who did, is a moderator here and it has not been moved yet...

- Mike G.

 

[silverbear]

We need a very good big young WR, so I would take Young as a WR. But QB, no way.

Well, that's just an ignorant thing to say-- the guy is completing 62.7 per cent of his passes, has thrown 23 TDs against 9 ints... this while playing in one of the toughest conferences in Division I-A, with a set of unproven wide receivers...

Exactly how much production does a guy have to show you to make you believe he has NFL ability??

Just like Hines Ward, Crayton, Randle El, and even Marvin Harrison did in College. Look at those guys now, excellent Wrs in the NFL.

And none of them were anywhere near as successful at QB as Young has been... that's not to say I don't think he could make a terrific WR, but I can guarantee you that he'll play quarterback in the NFL... I wasn't so certain of that going into this season, but he has stepped his game up, become more polished... there's no reason to believe he won't continue to develop, won't continue to improve...

Yeah, his mechanics aren't the greatest, but he has some other, very important things going on for him... his running ability is a weapon other teams will have to respect, but most important, he's the LEADER of the Longhorns; when he takes the field, he takes charge...

That's why he'll be a first round draft pick whenever he comes out, and a high first round pick (top 10, in all probability)... I do believe he'd be better served by coming back for another season, and being a devoted Horns fan I hope he does, but eventually he's gonna be a pretty fair NFL quarterback...

 

[silverbear]

I think Vick is more accurate.

I hardly know where to start with this load of bovine fecal matter you dropped on us...

In college, Vick completed 56.5 per cent of his passes... in the pros, he has completed 54.3 per cent... his BEST single season for accuracy was the 99 season at Tech, where he completed 59.2 per cent of his passes... he has NEVER had a season, college or pro, where he completed 60 per cent of his passes...

Meanwhile, Young has completed 60.5 per cent of his passes over his college career, better than any single season Vick has put up... this season, he's completed 62.7 per cent of his passes...

Seems to me that you're believing what you WANT to believe, because the numbers sure as h*ll don't support your bogus theory... the numbers clearly demonstrate the Vince Young has the more accurate arm...

Plus, Vick is (and was even as a sophomore in College) 10 times the playmaker that Young is.

Again, your argument is long on 'tude, short on facts... in 20 games at Virginia Tech, Vick scored 36 TDs-- 20 passing, 16 rushing... that's 1.8 TDs per game... over his last 2 seasons at Texas, covering 23 games, Young has scored 57 TDs-- 35 passing, 22 rushing...

When it comes to total offense, Vick averaged 213.8 yards per game in college, Young has averaged 241.4... what proved surprising to me in looking up the stats is that Young has actually been a better RUNNER than Vick was in college, averaging 6.7 yards per carry compared to Vick's 5.7... he also scored 33 rushing TDs in 35 games, compared to Vick's 16 in 20...

Clearly, your claim that Vick is "10 times the playmaker that Young is" is nothing more than biased BS, in point of fact, Young is the BETTER playmaker...

This in turn suggests that Young might well prove to be a better NFL quarterback than Vick, too...

I understand that some folks just naturally hate anything connected with the Texas Longhorns, but you really ought to know that if you bring your Horns hatred around me without some FACTS to back it up, I'm gonna make you look like a fool...

 

[KoRn_BoYz_5]

Vick had Andre Davis at WR, Lee Suggs and Kevin Jones at RB his whole college career. He had guys to complement him, who does Young have?

I love Vince but he had Cedric Benson, regardless of his pro career so far, he was a STELLAR Rb in College and i believe he can be in the Pros too...so to say he doesn't have talent isnt' exactly correct, he doesn't have the talent that will make big dollar big names in the pro but good enough

 

[DasTex]

I agree with the first part of what you said. There are plenty of Atlanta fans who would like to see Shaub take over fulltime for several reasons: 1) Vick is very inconsisten passing 2) Vick is hurt incessantly

Young is about the same player as Vick except I think Vick is better with his feet. Young in a long-strider, Vick is quicker. They both change directions amazingly well.
I think Vick is actually a better passer than Young. I've never seen Young throw to anyone who wasn't 10 yards wide open and hardly ever under 20 yards downfield. Sure he has a strong arm, but I don't see him going through reads, checking down, and making tough passes in tight coverage on out routes and etc. I have never seen him able to pick teams apart with his arm and brain, only with his legs, which is good enough in college, not as much in the pros. I think his short and intermediate game sucks and I think it was Bledsoe that said it best "(in response to his immobility) i think that criticism will be a lot more valid when a running QB actually wins a SB."

I'm not trying to disrespect Young as a person, I just think that his game does not translate well to the pros.
I do think that someone will draft him in the first round, probably top 15, and that team will be forced to play him at some point because they used a high pick on him.
So I do disagree with your second point, I think he will probably start some games in the NFL. I just don't think he'll be very good as a passer in the NFL.
I must say though that I am very sick of the UT homerism that incessantly post how great it would be for the Cowboys to draft Young. I wouldn't rank him in the "top 5 of current college QB's most likely to succeed in the NFL."
1) Quinn
2) Leinert
3) Croyle
4) Cutler
5) Leak

Seen Vince many times, and this post here pretty much sums it up. He'll be a QB in the NFL, but i doubt he's going to be that sucessful. He CAN'T and I mean CAN'T read a defense at all!! Never seems to go through reads. If his first option isn't there, he's looking to run the ball.

Also, I wish I had the tape here to go back and look, but even this year (his best as a passer) he doesn't have that great of touch on the ball. He'll hit his WR's sometimes when there open, but there has been so many times this year alone where his WR will be WIDE open and Vince will throw the ball 5 ft. above his head, and 5 ft out of bounds.

 

[BHendri5]

Maybe some team will give him a chance, but who ever gives him that chance they are going to want to convert him as soon as they watch him in minicamps.

Young has talent, but an NFL QB he is not. He is not accurate, he can hit only wide open receivers sometime.

He definitely is nowhere near Michael or Marcus Vick. He is not faster nor is he quicker.
His passes are like, man, if any scout considers this guy a great passer they need to return their scout's license.

He is a WR, playing QB, and he is doing a good job, in the college game. The pros is a different story.

Someone made the comment about Chris Simms making an NFL roster, that was ridiculous. Simms is light years ahead of Young in the QB dept. Young has a better college record, sure, that is all he has.

Simms has finally started to come around and he will be a very good QB. Simms has always had the tools, he just never wanted to spend the time in the playbook, studying film to get better, when he was here at UT.

It took him 3yrs or Gruden constantly getting on his case to finally realize that talent alone or your father's reputation does not guarantee success in the NFL.

I'll say this the sooner a team lets VY, try and bomb at QB in the NFL, the sooner he can be moved to WR and make his mark.

I'm telling you he will be a great WR, in the NFL, he can and will pass Rice.
For the people that think he is better or faster than Vick, they need to take the blinders off, or have their eyes checked.

If you ask and coaches, scouts to rate all the QBs in college as a total package, VY would be so far in the rear it would not be funny.

Someone mentioned Rivers, because of his throwing motion, well Rivers still was more of a complete QB than VY is and may ever be.

Henson missed 4yrs of football, but I would put him in a game and start him in the NFL, before I would VY.

No way, to VY as a QB to the Cowboys, but I'll take him as a WR.

I cannot wait till the 06 draft.

 

[BHendri5]

Well, that's just an ignorant thing to say-- the guy is completing 62.7 per cent of his passes, has thrown 23 TDs against 9 ints... this while playing in one of the toughest conferences in Division I-A, with a set of unproven wide receivers...

Exactly how much production does a guy have to show you to make you believe he has NFL ability??



And none of them were anywhere near as successful at QB as Young has been... that's not to say I don't think he could make a terrific WR, but I can guarantee you that he'll play quarterback in the NFL... I wasn't so certain of that going into this season, but he has stepped his game up, become more polished... there's no reason to believe he won't continue to develop, won't continue to improve...

Yeah, his mechanics aren't the greatest, but he has some other, very important things going on for him... his running ability is a weapon other teams will have to respect, but most important, he's the LEADER of the Longhorns; when he takes the field, he takes charge...

That's why he'll be a first round draft pick whenever he comes out, and a high first round pick (top 10, in all probability)... I do believe he'd be better served by coming back for another season, and being a devoted Horns fan I hope he does, but eventually he's gonna be a pretty fair NFL quarterback...

The only thing you said worth anything in your post, is that Young has NFL talent. I agree, and he will play, but as a QB, I don't think so. His success will come as a WR.

He is a playmaker and that is serving him well in college, but the pros is a different game. Let some other team waste their time on him as a QB, Not the Cowboys.

Whatever team that tries him at QB will be wasting valuable time, for the team and VY.

 

[silverbear]

too bad. If you have watched football, there has been many, many college QBs that were QBs, but once they got to the NFL they became a WR. Matt Jones remember him the QB from Arkansas? He is now a WR. He was a better QB than Young.

ROTFLMAO... SURE he was...

Fact check time--

Matt Jones' college career: 47 games played... 756 attempts, 417 completions... 55.2 per cent completion rate... 5857 yards, 124.6 yards per game... 53 TDs, 30 ints...

Vince Young's college career: 35 games played... 661 attempts, 400 completions... 60.5 completion percentage... 5580 yards, 159.4 yards per game... 41TD s, 27 ints...

But the most relevant comparison might be to the last college season for each... in 11 games, Vince has gone 168 for 268 (62.7%), for 2576 yards (234.2 per game), with 23 TDs (2.1 per game) and 8 ints (.7 per game)... his quarterback rating on the season is 165.0... Jones also played in 11 games last year, and he went 151 for 264 (57.2%), for 2073 yards (188.5 per game), with 15 TDs (1.4 per game) and 12 ints (1.1 per game)... his quarterback rating last year was 132.8...

Now, I'll give you that Jones WAS the better running QB, but that's not really a knock on Vince, Matt's college rushing numbers were AMAZING... but as a passer, well, let's just say that NO scouts projected him to play QB in the NFL... meanwhile, I haven't seen a single scout who projects Young to play any other position...

Vince Young is obviously the superior passer, and the discrepancy can't be explained away by the difference in talent between their supporting casts...

Those pesky facts, they do get in the way of a perfectly good biased rant, don't they?? But hey, at least now any 3rd party reading this thread can judge your specious arguments with ALL the facts, and form his own opinions regarding your agenda, and that of others in this thread spewing the same stupidity...

Again, allow me to repeat, any Horns hater who wishes to trash their players is well advised to have their facts in order, because I do have mine in order, and will be happy to rebut ridiculous arguments like the ones I've addressed in this thread...