Let's stop the Dak is not great non-sense

SteveTheCowboy

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would mahomes lead cowboys to a superbowl if he played under the same circumstances?
Dunno. All I can speak for is what he did.

Honestly...not sure what context we're talking about here. Seems I wrote that a long time ago in specific reply to something. And now we're trying to muddle up the point...by trying to prove some OTHER point?

If you are attempting to point out our team actually kinda sucks....and even who we seem to think of as a very good QB....couldn't help much...I might agree with you. But that isn't what I was trying to say. If I correctly recall the context from many days ago.

EDIT: I looked for my comment...seems like it was just yesterday? LOL...still.....my reply to you stands except for the "many days ago". Old age...not fun! Memory is for shirt. :cool:
 

phildadon86

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This is just muddying the water.. Using numbers and all of these other things to try make it seem like Dak has anything on Romo as a passer.

Dak is not in his league and probably never will be.

Sure he can post some good numbers but his role is to manage the offense and not screw the game up for everyone else.

Be conservative.. Let things come to him.. Then pad some stats when defenses get looser as the game goes on and we spread teams out.

Him playing this way has Super Fans acting like he is some great QB when the reality is he’s a slightly better version of Alex Smith and there is nothing wrong with that until you pay him 40 mill a year like the idiot Jones’s did.
Look at Daks vs Romo in their 5th year. Its not fair to even compare the 2 because 1. Romo had Parcells as a coach and got to sit for a bit before playing. Dak had Jason Garrett and got thrown into the fire as a rookie. 2 Romo had HOF talent on his team on offense. Does Dak have Prime Witten and TO? no. Dak has great receivers and a great line as well. But to compare and say Romo didnt have what Dak had isnt fair either. They are 2 different QBs. And go figure here you are bloviating about Romo further proving you hate Dak because Dez and him couldnt play together. Comparing a 14 year starter to a 5 year starter is just ridiculous though.
 

Jipper

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i think its funny how people get so worked up about this when he has a no trade clause and is not going anywhere for the next 3-4 years at least.

Literally, zero anyone on this board can do to change that Dak is the cowboys qb for the future...get busy supporting or why waste your time complaining? I just dont get it.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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I am not saying Dak is great or not....and yes, y ou can't have it both ways. either wins and losses are on him, not just losses, which is what a lot of dak detractors like to point to around here. either the defense bears some responsibility or they don't at all. you can't have it both ways. you can't blame everything on Dak, yet not give him credit for things he does, because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Brady is a great example of a GOAT. are you comparing Dak to the GOAT? and lets not pretend that Tampa didn't have talent on that team already. Brady chose the perfect place to go. a 7-9 team. with offensive weapons and a great defense. a former QB with penchant to throw interceptions (30). cut those in half and the team gets another 4 wins easily, which is what brady did. once in the playoffs, his experience is the most important aspect of Brady at this point in his career.

everyone keeps pointing to Brady. who are the other Brady's. everyone wants a Brady. where are they? Brady is once in a two generation type QB.
Brady is an easy target for sure. Should we use Romo instead? Lower the bar of greatness, right?

If you are trying to admonish me for assigning losses to Dak...it looks like you are....it's the wrong tree to bark up. I never said nor hinted at any such thing. In fact I said in the comment you quoted "we're a team". So not sure what you are going on about.
 

fivetwos

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First let me again state that I'm Swiss when it comes to Prescott.

In fairness, if the rest of his career was a carbon copy of what's happened thus far it would be disappointing to Dallas fans, as the teams futility would continue.

On the other hand anyone would have signed up for those type of numbers from a 4th round QB.

I personally have hope that he will get better, and he will lead the offense to be able to execute well against the better teams in the league.

I think the potential for that is there....and that beats the alternative for now.
 

basel90

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His cap hit this year is 22.5 million. You keep blowing that horn though. It won’t make your comment any more real or factual. Dak is making 22,5 this year against the cap and we still didn’t fix the defense. Dak was making peanuts since 2016. News flash. We didn’t fix the defense. We don’t value defense and havent for a long time. Blame Dak all you want but it’s not the reality of the situation.
I don’t blame Dak for the defense . That is on Jerry and he should have taken advantage of this the last 4 years .
Yes Dak cost 33 mil last year and 22.5 this year but his cap hit the next few years limits the options on so many defensive needs , if the team decides to address the defense .
 

phildadon86

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I don’t blame Dak for the defense . That is on Jerry and he should have taken advantage of this the last 4 years .
Yes Dak cost 33 mil last year and 22.5 this year but his cap hit the next few years limits the options on so many defensive needs , if the team decides to address the defense .
I agree. But blaming Dak for not spending on the defense is exactly what you did and have been doing. Its not Dak. Its dumb and dumber up in the FO.
 

Rockport

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First let me again state that I'm Swiss when it comes to Prescott.

In fairness, if the rest of his career was a carbon copy of what's happened thus far it would be disappointing to Dallas fans, as the teams futility would continue.

On the other hand anyone would have signed up for those type of numbers from a 4th round QB.

I personally have hope that he will get better, and he will lead the offense to be able to execute well against the better teams in the league.

I think the potential for that is there....and that beats the alternative for now.
Why do everyone put the entire blame for the teams futility on Dak? So stupid.
 

CATCH17

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Look at Daks vs Romo in their 5th year. Its not fair to even compare the 2 because 1. Romo had Parcells as a coach and got to sit for a bit before playing. Dak had Jason Garrett and got thrown into the fire as a rookie. 2 Romo had HOF talent on his team on offense. Does Dak have Prime Witten and TO? no. Dak has great receivers and a great line as well. But to compare and say Romo didnt have what Dak had isnt fair either. They are 2 different QBs. And go figure here you are bloviating about Romo further proving you hate Dak because Dez and him couldnt play together. Comparing a 14 year starter to a 5 year starter is just ridiculous though.

I can look at both QB's any year and see 1 guy has a ton of skill and is ok.

I can look at Zach Wilson before he ever plays a pro football game and see that he has far more ability and upside as a passer than Dak Prescott will ever have.

These things are obvious.
 

fivetwos

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Why do everyone put the entire blame for the teams futility on Dak? So stupid.
Nature of the beast I suppose.

QBs will always get too much credit or blame.

This is an endless can of worms, but as much as I love Troy Aikman for what he meant to this franchise, I'm not so sure he would have done well in a less than perfect situation.

He himself wasn't great when the team around him wasn't.

In the end we all are forced to look at a guy like Aaron Rodgers, who does appear to win games on his own, and thats what Prescott is expected to do.

Another factor is the money and he is called overpaid.

People generally feel like players should be paid based on some sort of combo of accomplishment and ability, but in reality it's much more about contract leverage and supply vs demand.
 

phildadon86

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I can look at both QB's any year and see 1 guy has a ton of skill and is ok.

I can look at Zach Wilson before he ever plays a pro football game and see that he has far more ability and upside as a passer than Dak Prescott will ever have.

These things are obvious.
Just like you looked at Mahomes and Watson and said "Kaaya and Beathard will translate better to the pros?" lol. Yeah your opinion means about as much as a 10 year old playing madden.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Everything most say in this group is opinion but again, you wish to engage with me when I was never speaking to you while you attempt to paint me as someone that only looks at the 2019 season regarding Dak......well, Dak has done nothing to establish greatness in ANY season but you go about your day as you will.
I don't paint you into anything. you do a fine job of that yourself. All I ever do is quote you to you and you try to spin out of it....seemingly you don't like me quoting you...
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Dunno. All I can speak for is what he did.

Honestly...not sure what context we're talking about here. Seems I wrote that a long time ago in specific reply to something. And now we're trying to muddle up the point...by trying to prove some OTHER point?

If you are attempting to point out our team actually kinda sucks....and even who we seem to think of as a very good QB....couldn't help much...I might agree with you. But that isn't what I was trying to say. If I correctly recall the context from many days ago.

EDIT: I looked for my comment...seems like it was just yesterday? LOL...still.....my reply to you stands except for the "many days ago". Old age...not fun! Memory is for shirt. :cool:
:huh:

was that you jus thinking out loud?
 

fivetwos

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Most of us around here consider Garrett and his staff to have been awful, yes?

If that's indeed the case, Prescott was supposed to overcome that how??

Garrett's ultra conservative and very predictable strategies didn't help Prescott at all.

Throw out last year for the most part. Prescott never played a snap after that defense figured out how to not be legendarily bad.

I think there's a reasonable chance Prescott improves from here....
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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(that's what all you Dak detractors refer to in Rodgers, right?)

and its funny you mention the 2018 AFCCG and brady making a come back (he is the GOAT). yet not mention Mahomes and how the defense let him down, and mahomes did everything in that game too. so how could mahomes not be able to win the AFCCG in 2018....I guess he wasn't any good back then. he only became good in 2019...right? and then in 2020 he choked in the superbowl not being able to win it.

Wow, lots of things to unpack here. Firstly, why are you calling me a Dak detractor? I have said in many different threads that he is a top 10 QB in this league. Is it because I’m not calling him great? What things has he done that are ‘great’ achievements for an NFL QB? He is a good, pro-bowl caliber QB who earned his contract. That’s pretty solid, with a long career ahead of him to attempt greatness. It may be hard to believe if you fall on the side of pro or anti Dak, but I am neither. I am a Dak realist, he is exactly what he is, nothing more and nothing less.

And to your 2018 AFCCG point, yes 100% Mahomes was blamed for that loss. Time and time again he came up short in the 4th and overtime. He lost it as much as Brady won it. But you know what happened the next year? He redeemed himself.

I have criticized Dak for his bad plays and bad games. but I don't laser focus on those games only, given every QB has those games including the great Brady.

and in the two playoff losses with Dak. one him as a rookie going against the great Rodgers (that's what all you Dak detractors refer to in Rodgers, right?). and that coming down to a defense not holding GB back and allowing them 3, not one, but 3 big plays to convert first downs and get in field goal range. is that Dak's fault? against the Rams, was it his fault for giving up 250 yards rushing? Rams rushed and converted at will. tell me how that's his fault?

because in those games, despite everything that happened, Dak put his team in position to win, and then he wilted. In the packers game, despite everything, you only lose by 5. Here are 3 of the last 4 drives Dak led: punt, fumble lost, turnover on downs. That’s how the game ended. So yes, Cowboy had problems. Yes, not every single statistic when he’s not even on the field is entirely Dak’s fault (you keep using that hyperbole). But never, ever, ever, ever would Brady end a playoff game like that. If Mahomes ever did, he would rightly be blamed for it. Russell Wilson has never ended a playoff loss like that.

You didn’t lose by 20, you didn’t get taken behind the wouldshed, any of those drives go all the way and Dak rightly gets praise for beating Rodgers. But Rodgers took advantage of the moment that the other QB passed on: Field Goal, TD, TD, kneel to end the game. That was Aaron’s last 4 possessions that game, no hyperbole necessary. We can blame your defense, but why were they so good for 2.5 quarters? Because Rodgers wouldn’t stand for it anymore. Why did Dak suddenly disappear when the fourth quarter started? Where the Packers suddenly all-world on D? Did ray lewis and Reggie white come out of the tunnel for the second half? Or Is it alway his play callers fault every time? Dak was rookie, there’s always that.

let’s look at his only other playoff appearance in his career: 2018. St. Louis Rams, despite the insane rushing stats, despite the crazy time of possession difference, it was still only a 1 possession game! Time for Dak to play 2-minute hero, let’s see what he did:

Punt
TD
Downs
TD

That loss of possessions by downs is glaring, but otherwise this paints a very different picture than the Packers game. Dak was driving, Dak was scoring. So how did we get the result we did? Before those drives the Cowboys scored on 1 single drive to open the game. Before the 4th quarter flurry, Dallas had a total of 7 points. What was Dak’s excuse then, was it Garrett? Was it the crazy good Rams D? Dak is part of every solution, just as he is part of every problem. Maybe his defense gives up a lot of yards, but why is he choosing not to keep his team in the game by scoring to match the opponent? Is he not good enough or do we go with other excuses for him?

I think I understand most of your argument, but one part is still a little off to me. Let’s do a comparison, this very much ties into Dak’s situation:

QB A and QB B played a similar amount of seasons through their careers. However, QB B was notorious for having top coaches, and regularly had a strong, if not dominant defense.

QB A: more yards, many more TDs, similar INTs, better YPA, higher completion %, more pro bowls. However, QB A never won a SB, never made a SB, and it would have been a surprise and a big deal if he even brought a team to a championship game.

QB B is a super bowl champion, has made multiple super bowls, many championship games, despite putting up inferior numbers, being less accurate, and having (in some cases) dramatically better teams and organization(s) around him. Virtually everyone sees QB B as the superior QB having the superior career.

I would go so far as to say QB A couldn’t necessarily be blamed for a lot of his playoff losses, he plays reasonably well in most of them. Well enough not to lose, you could say. And while QB B played well in the playoffs, he’s no Tom Brady, and by the stats you know he was never known as a high flying gunslinger type. In this scenario, without knowing the specifics of their situations, do you think it’s fair that QB B is considered superior?

For as much as is out of Dak’s control, a lot is still in his control. He could have beaten GB, he could have beaten StL, despite everything going against him. In both games he did play good, but in neither game did he play great.
 
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CowboysFaninHouston

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Brady is an easy target for sure. Should we use Romo instead? Lower the bar of greatness, right?

If you are trying to admonish me for assigning losses to Dak...it looks like you are....it's the wrong tree to bark up. I never said nor hinted at any such thing. In fact I said in the comment you quoted "we're a team". So not sure what you are going on about.
I never said romo is great. I am just trying to establish what constitutes greatness.

I am not admonishing anything or anyone....I simply ask if all wins/losses solely lie on the QB....people tend to point to wins/losses and when I ask the question they tend to spin. I have seen many blatantly blame Dak for losses and not being able to win games, yet when pointed to his wins, they point to great players around him and that its them winning games, not Dak. so its confusing line of argument to say the least.
 
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