Lions Exploring Trading Suh - Would You Want Him?

[slick325]

Is his ceiling as a one-technique? Then it would be hard to warrant a Cowboys draft pick. The team would have to evaluate whether he can be a three-technique in their system.

Stephen Jones has spoken.

 

[JackWagon]

We've been drafting better since the '09 disaster.

Agreed .. but i would really like to see us start hitting consistently on lower round picks ... not just the 1st and 2nd rounders. And quit reaching for "talents" that cant stay healthy.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Suh, IMO, is one of a hand full of guys in the NFL that I would classify as a game changer. Defensively, these types of players are even fewer and further between because the game is so skewed towards the Offensive side of the ball. I know that this kid has some issues with his play and that's probably more of a maturity thing then anything but he's not a rapist. He's not a drug dealer and he's not associated with any kind of criminal activity, so far as I am aware of. His kind of trouble is not the kind of trouble that I am worried about. One of my all time favorite players for the Cowboys was Erik Williams. I loved Larry also but Erik Williams, he was about as nasty as you can get. When you can get, possibly the greatest defensive player in the history of the league (The Great Reggie White), to admit that you hated playing a player, then you have something. You have a situation where the folks on the other side of the field are already beaten because it's in their heads. Reggie enjoyed that over almost every player in the league except Williams and the Cowboys. Williams had that same kind of thing over Reggie and the Packers. We beat Reggie and the Packers 7 straight times I think. That was a great, great team that we dominated because we had a physical, nasty edge to our team offensively. Erik Williams was not the most talented tackle ever. He might have been had he not suffered that car accident but, he was about as nasty as they come and he was in Reggie's head.

What does all this have to do with Suh? Suh is that kind of player as well IMO. You take Suh, who is more talented IMO, then anybody in this draft, and you put him together with Marinelli and you have a defensive cornerstone that will lead us to a dominating defense. I'm not just talking about good. I'm talking about Tampa Bay Tampa2 Sapp-Brooks-Barber-Rice good. If you want to win, then this is how you do it. These kinds of talents, these kinds of opportunities don't come around very often. I think when they do, you have to take advantage of them or you deserve what you get. We complain a lot about our defense not helping Romo or how we fold in the forth quarter all the time. Well, this is the kind of player that you bring in to solve those kinds of problems.

I would trade for him.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Suh, IMO, is one of a hand full of guys in the NFL that I would classify as a game changer. Defensively, these types of players are even fewer and further between because the game is so skewed towards the Offensive side of the ball. I know that this kid has some issues with his play and that's probably more of a maturity thing then anything but he's not a rapist. He's not a drug dealer and he's not associated with any kind of criminal activity, so far as I am aware of. His kind of trouble is not the kind of trouble that I am worried about. One of my all time favorite players for the Cowboys was Erik Williams. I loved Larry also but Erik Williams, he was about as nasty as you can get. When you can get, possibly the greatest defensive player in the history of the league (The Great Reggie White), to admit that you hated playing a player, then you have something. You have a situation where the folks on the other side of the field are already beaten because it's in their heads. Reggie enjoyed that over almost every player in the league except Williams and the Cowboys. Williams had that same kind of thing over Reggie and the Packers. We beat Reggie and the Packers 7 straight times I think. That was a great, great team that we dominated because we had a physical, nasty edge to our team offensively. Erik Williams was not the most talented tackle ever. He might have been had he not suffered that car accident but, he was about as nasty as they come and he was in Reggie's head.

What does all this have to do with Suh? Suh is that kind of player as well IMO. You take Suh, who is more talented IMO, then anybody in this draft, and you put him together with Marinelli and you have a defensive cornerstone that will lead us to a dominating defense. I'm not just talking about good. I'm talking about Tampa Bay Tampa2 Sapp-Brooks-Barber-Rice good. If you want to win, then this is how you do it. These kinds of talents, these kinds of opportunities don't come around very often. I think when they do, you have to take advantage of them or you deserve what you get. We complain a lot about our defense not helping Romo or how we fold in the forth quarter all the time. Well, this is the kind of player that you bring in to solve those kinds of problems.

I would trade for him.

I agree with nearly every word here. The addition of Suh puts this team in position to win now. My only concern here is the contract. Is he a 1 year rental? If he does re-sign do we still have room for other players who are about to expire? I'm far from a cap expert so that is a serious question. As much as I think Suh could make this team a super bowl contender I couldn't trade a high pick for him knowing there is a possibility your star WR or LT walk in free agency.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree with nearly every word here. The addition of Suh puts this team in position to win now. My only concern here is the contract. Is he a 1 year rental? If he does re-sign do we still have room for other players who are about to expire? I'm far from a cap expert so that is a serious question. As much as I think Suh could make this team a super bowl contender I couldn't trade a high pick for him knowing there is a possibility your star WR or LT walk in free agency.

I don't think it makes sense to try and sign him to a 1 year deal. That only way this works is if we can make him a central piece of the puzzle. That would mean we need to structure a contract to keep him but I think he's the kind of talent that would be worth it.

 

[xwalker]

I agree with nearly every word here. The addition of Suh puts this team in position to win now. My only concern here is the contract. Is he a 1 year rental? If he does re-sign do we still have room for other players who are about to expire? I'm far from a cap expert so that is a serious question. As much as I think Suh could make this team a super bowl contender I couldn't trade a high pick for him knowing there is a possibility your star WR or LT walk in free agency.

You don't want to give up both draft picks and a huge chunk of cap space. Either use the draft pick to draft a cheap, young player OR use the cap space to sign a free agent to at big contract. Don't give up the picks and sign the player to a big contract.

There is no magic contract structuring to get around this issue. Suh will require a large contract after 2014 and his 2014 base salary is already 12M.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You don't want to give up both draft picks and a huge chunk of cap space. Either use the draft pick to draft a cheap, young player OR use the cap space to sign a free agent to at big contract. Don't give up the picks and sign the player to a big contract.

There is no magic contract structuring to get around this issue. Suh will require a large contract after 2014 and his 2014 base salary is already 12M.

I think the number is 11.55 Million but, in 2015, his number is 3.5 million and after that, he's an FA. I think that it would be reasonable to assume that if you traded for Suh, you could restructure him to a more reasonable deal. He's not going to want to play for 3.5 Million in 2015 and he will probably want a deal that is in the area of 5 years for the sake of security. I think something could be done there to benefit both the player and the team. JMO

 

[xwalker]

I think the number is 11.55 Million but, in 2015, his number is 3.5 million and after that, he's an FA. I think that it would be reasonable to assume that if you traded for Suh, you could restructure him to a more reasonable deal. He's not going to want to play for 3.5 Million in 2015 and he will probably want a deal that is in the area of 5 years for the sake of security. I think something could be done there to benefit both the player and the team. JMO

2015: Voids 5 days after 2014 Super Bowl

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

2015: Voids 5 days after 2014 Super Bowl

So then the Lions might be very motivated to trade him. A much lower draft pick might be acceptable if you could find a team who could work with the cap?

 

[xwalker]

So then the Lions might be very motivated to trade him. A much lower draft pick might be acceptable if you could find a team who could work with the cap?

I don't think the Cowboys want to take on his 12M salary for 2014. I think they realistically don't think they are a contender in 2014. If they did, they wouldn't have released Ware. They can save the 12M and instead spend 24M in 2015 which is a year where they could be a contender if they resolve a few issues this season.

What do you mean at team who could work with the cap?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't think the Cowboys want to take on his 12M salary for 2014. I think they realistically don't think they are a contender in 2014. If they did, they wouldn't have released Ware. They can save the 12M and instead spend 24M in 2015 which is a year where they could be a contender if they resolve a few issues this season.

What do you mean at team who could work with the cap?

I would not be so sure of that. I think that the future contract situation with Ware effected that decision much more then anything. If he were 27, the Cowboys would never have released him IMO. I think Suh is another story all together. He's still young and he fits what Marinelli wants to do to a tee. He would also not be locked into scheme. There are a lot of advantages to acquiring Suh, rather then drafting a player. He could immediately help this defense become respectable and he immediately takes all huge amount of pressure off of the DEs. You could draft an edge rusher and not have the need to have that player contribute immediately. It also take a huge amount of pressure off of Spencer. He doesn't have to be a Pro Bowl End immediately either. Also immediately improves Melton's value. Instead of becoming the focal point of every teams double teams, he's now probably covered by a single Guard and that's not going to work. I see the acquisition of a player like Suh putting the Cowboys defense in an immediate position to be much better then just adequate and certainly much better then last year. In the red zone alone, he could improve us significantly. We were 1 win away from making the playoffs last year. A guy like Suh could make a big difference, immediately, for us IMO. You start adding pieces around him and I could see us contending for a championship in the space of a year or two.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

 

[xwalker]

I would not be so sure of that. I think that the future contract situation with Ware effected that decision much more then anything. If he were 27, the Cowboys would never have released him IMO. I think Suh is another story all together. He's still young and he fits what Marinelli wants to do to a tee. He would also not be locked into scheme. There are a lot of advantages to acquiring Suh, rather then drafting a player. He could immediately help this defense become respectable and he immediately takes all huge amount of pressure off of the DEs. You could draft an edge rusher and not have the need to have that player contribute immediately. It also take a huge amount of pressure off of Spencer. He doesn't have to be a Pro Bowl End immediately either. Also immediately improves Melton's value. Instead of becoming the focal point of every teams double teams, he's now probably covered by a single Guard and that's not going to work. I see the acquisition of a player like Suh putting the Cowboys defense in an immediate position to be much better then just adequate and certainly much better then last year. In the red zone alone, he could improve us significantly. We were 1 win away from making the playoffs last year. A guy like Suh could make a big difference, immediately, for us IMO. You start adding pieces around him and I could see us contending for a championship in the space of a year or two.

Giving up draft picks AND a huge amount of cap space is not a good team building strategy with the current CBA.

Trading for Suh is a move for a team that is 1 player away. That is not the Cowboys and I'm one of the more optimistic posters.

 

[the_h0wey]

He has the kind of attitude that I want my DLinemen to have.

But do I want him? No. If we're trading, why not give up a 3rd rounder for a 22 year old Aaron Donald instead of a 27 year old Suh?

Because you know what you have in Suh.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Giving up draft picks AND a huge amount of cap space is not a good team building strategy with the current CBA.

Trading for Suh is a move for a team that is 1 player away. That is not the Cowboys and I'm one of the more optimistic posters.

Really? I don't agree. Giving up a draft pick or even lower draft picks perhaps and paying for young talent as good as Suh, is in fact, exactly how you build a team. Suh is the kind of player that can be your cornerstone.

 

[xwalker]

Really? I don't agree. Giving up a draft pick or even lower draft picks perhaps and paying for young talent as good as Suh, is in fact, exactly how you build a team. Suh is the kind of player that can be your cornerstone.

You can't effectively manage the salary cap if you give up draft picks for expensive veterans. I'm not talking about 7th round picks. The Lions are unlikely to trade him for less than a 2nd or maybe 3rd.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You can't effectively manage the salary cap if you give up draft picks for expensive veterans. I'm not talking about 7th round picks. The Lions are unlikely to trade him for less than a 2nd or maybe 3rd.

You can absolutely effectively manage the cap if you invest in good young players that have value. It's not like we are talking about spending Millions of dollars on guys that you are not even sure can play in the league.

 

[xwalker]

You can absolutely effectively manage the cap if you invest in good young players that have value. It's not like we are talking about spending Millions of dollars on guys that you are not even sure can play in the league.

I'm really confident in my knowledge of the salary cap.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm really confident in my knowledge of the salary cap.

I'm sure you are. Do you think that this confidence makes you correct in your opinion here?

 

[dcstands4]

Would you give up our 1st for him?

1. ​
   Scott Bischoff ‏@Bischoff_Scott Apr 23
   Per a source, the #Lions are having discussions about moving #Suh before the draft to move up as high as possible in the first round.

the way our line looks now, id take a flyer