Live Well and Prosper Michael Vick

[Phoenix-Talon]

I'm so frustrated that I can't watch the Texans vs Dallas game right now. I'm not even sure if the Eagles vs Jaguars game is going to be televised here on the East Coast or not

The good news is I have the "Redzone ...I Just saw Miles Austin catch a pass at the goal Line. Looks like Dallas is going to score on the Texans; that will make the score 6 (7) to 3 Dallas. Looks Like that's going to be a good game.

 

[JVita17]

I think Vick is going to sink Philly's ship to the bottom of the NFC East.

If we get the hell out of the way.

Doubt it. Hes going to kill defenses like he did....

 

[Flinger]

Talon,

Only my second post, but been reading for years. I've been a Cowboy's fan since they started in Dallas in 1960. In my first post, I mentioned that I moved from Dallas to the Philly area almost 20 years ago.

I don't live in Philly proper, but about 30 miles west. The 'burbs' aren't quit like living in 'Center City'. I find people's attitudes and support for their team(s) is(are) actually very similar to my experience with fans the years I spent in Dallas for 35 years. No more obnoxious than anyone else.

I have to say, I've read your posts for a long time now and have to say you are a class act, all the way. I know it's tough for Cowboy fans to see Eagle fans as anything but jerks. Before I moved here, I thought the same thing. Time, observation and an open mind changes perspective. I'm still a Cowboy's fan true and through - always will be. But, there is a pretty big difference in the '700 level' Eagles fan and the 'burb' Eagles fan.

I have to say that every since Lurie arrived and brought in Andy Reid, the Eagles, in many ways, remind me of the Cowboys as I grew up. Classly owner that stays out of the way (like Murchinson in the 60's & 70's), a steady, consistent, and excellent coach that always seems to have his team prepared to compete and consistently play at a championship level (like Landry - and, just like Landry can be a little predictable), a solid front office and GM that does an excellent job of finding talent and effectively incorporates new talent into the existing team, and a team of high quality, high character players.

I really believe the issue of Michael Vick is tough for Reid because, on the surface, it goes against the grain of what the organization has stood for since the Lurie/Reid era began. But, it is also a great message when a guy like Vick, who seems sincerely contrite, humble and ashamed of his behavior years ago can find redemption and hope. Besides that, he is a great talent. In fact, I think he's better than he was in Atlanta. More mature, more of a pocket presence, still dangerous.

Our 'D' can still handle him, but I think the Eagles are better with him at QB for this place in time...

 

[Fletch]

Ahh! It's good to see our ol' friend Phoenix-Talon back in the Cowboys Zone. Barely beat the Lions and put a spanking on a terrible Jaguars team. Vick sure has had it easy as of late. Wait till the Iggles play an actual defense.

But again, the Iggles roll off two straight wins against below average teams, with a changed Michael Vick, and ol' Tally-Ho Talon shows up.

How goes it buddy?

 

[DallasEast]

I'm so frustrated that I can't watch the Texans vs Dallas game right now. I'm not even sure if the Eagles vs Jaguars game is going to be televised here on the East Coast or not

The good news is I have the "Redzone ...I Just saw Miles Austin catch a pass at the goal Line. Looks like Dallas is going to score on the Texans; that will make the score 6 (7) to 3 Dallas. Looks Like that's going to be a good game.

For future reference: http://www.the506.com

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Talon,

Only my second post, but been reading for years. I've been a Cowboy's fan since they started in Dallas in 1960. In my first post, I mentioned that I moved from Dallas to the Philly area almost 20 years ago.

I don't live in Philly proper, but about 30 miles west. The 'burbs' aren't quit like living in 'Center City'. I find people's attitudes and support for their team(s) is(are) actually very similar to my experience with fans the years I spent in Dallas for 35 years. No more obnoxious than anyone else.

I have to say, I've read your posts for a long time now and have to say you are a class act, all the way. I know it's tough for Cowboy fans to see Eagle fans as anything but jerks. Before I moved here, I thought the same thing. Time, observation and an open mind changes perspective. I'm still a Cowboy's fan true and through - always will be. But, there is a pretty big difference in the '700 level' Eagles fan and the 'burb' Eagles fan.

I have to say that every since Lurie arrived and brought in Andy Reid, the Eagles, in many ways, remind me of the Cowboys as I grew up. Classly owner that stays out of the way (like Murchinson in the 60's & 70's), a steady, consistent, and excellent coach that always seems to have his team prepared to compete and consistently play at a championship level (like Landry - and, just like Landry can be a little predictable), a solid front office and GM that does an excellent job of finding talent and effectively incorporates new talent into the existing team, and a team of high quality, high character players.

I really believe the issue of Michael Vick is tough for Reid because, on the surface, it goes against the grain of what the organization has stood for since the Lurie/Reid era began. But, it is also a great message when a guy like Vick, who seems sincerely contrite, humble and ashamed of his behavior years ago can find redemption and hope. Besides that, he is a great talent. In fact, I think he's better than he was in Atlanta. More mature, more of a pocket presence, still dangerous.

Our 'D' can still handle him, but I think the Eagles are better with him at QB for this place in time...

Hi there Flinger,

I am really grateful to you for your kind words; and the fact that this you've Been a fan here at the Zone all this time, reading, supporting and commenting very seldomly. I consider it an honor to receive a post from you sir ...thank you.

I will remember your kind words. If you ever need my assistaNce with anything, please let me know. In some sports cirles, I'm also known as Silver-Talons, and Armageddon-Eagle. I've got your back.

 

[Idgit]

I think Philly was a really good thing for Vick. Moving him back farther from the line of scrimmage and giving him better offensive coaching has revitalized his career. Had he been in the right situation from the start, Vick could very well have been a franchise player for the team that drafted him.

There have been rumors for years that he's not a hard worker. That's hard to evaluate as a fan, but by most accounts he's been putting in his time in Philly. It's showing on the field.

Philly's problem is their defense. And their struggles at MLB. I think they're a wildcard contender, but don't think they can win consistently against good teams in the playoffs.

 

[zrinkill]

I'm certainly no stranger to crow delights:

I'll be here ...win or otherwise; to crow or eat crow.

PT

Did not return for how many months?

 

[laythewood28]

Vick gives them the best chance to win. Teams still need to respect his ability to run forcing them to play zone, making Jackson and Maclin more dangerous. With Kolb you don't get that threat so teams can play man all day.

 

[dreghorn2]

I'm a dog trainer.

It would please me greatly to see Vick carted off the field, immobilized... and for one moment, I'd be just like an Eagle's fan taking a page out of their book and cheering like when Michael Irvin went down in Philadelphia.

It amazes me how people seem to so easily forget the transgressions of high profile individuals.

Seriously, do a little research on Badnewz kennels, and what went on there, and tell me you would like this individual as your starting QB.

Nobody acts in that fashion towards animals without SERIOUS SERIOUS issues.

If Vick is to play regularly again than Philadelphia is the place. That city deserves him.

What a world.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Look, I'm not saying anything that anyone outside of being an Eagles fan should get excited about. All I'm excited about is that Michael Vick is now afforded an opportunity to demonstrate that he is the best man for the job.

I believe that all NFL fans that love football will be trying to watch the Eagles game versus Commanders game featuring Vick versus McNabb this Sunday in Philly.

I'll be careful how I word my next question...
What team (Eagles or Skins) would you like to see lose?

...and why?

 

[zrinkill]

If Vick is to play regularly again than Philadelphia is the place. That city deserves him.

http://img.***BLOCKED***/albums/v210/zrinkill/michael_vick.jpg

 

[dreghorn2]

This is a particularly sore subject with me.

Those that talk of redemption, second chances, paid debts etc.. would you like a convicted murderer as your QB?

I am not equating the death of a human to that of an animal but think for a moment.

A guy gets into a fight at a bar, he kills a man. Someone in a moment of rage or passion lashes out and takes a life. Terrible crimes and they should face terrible consequences for those actions.

Vick and his buddies on the other hand would wake up day after day, not in the heat of a temporary mental imbalance brought about from the aforementioned rage or passion, and systematically tortured, abused, and killed helpless animals.

I mean really think about it.

Feeding weaker dogs to the strong, setting up rape stands for breeding, disposing of used up dogs by drowning them, hanging them from trees, soaking them in water and electrocuting them, and on at least one occasion simply beating a dog against the ground until it died.

And don't give me this he grew up this culture excuse. Fighting dogs are bad enough. But the way the were abused is simply insane.

There was no need for that type of torture, there any many humane ways to put down an animal, but i guess humane isn't in your vocabulary if you are establishing that type of hellhole in the first place.

Vick is a sick sick guy, and as much as Talon and others are trying to keep it to football, there are many of us that will never look beyond his decision to create a terror zone that traumatized, tortured, and killed helpless animals.

 

[burmafrd]

This is a particularly sore subject with me.

Those that talk of redemption, second chances, paid debts etc.. would you like a convicted murderer as your QB?

I am not equating the death of a human to that of an animal but think for a moment.

A guy gets into a fight at a bar, he kills a man. Someone in a moment of rage or passion lashes out and takes a life. Terrible crimes and they should face terrible consequences for those actions.

Vick and his buddies on the other hand would wake up day after day, not in the heat of a temporary mental imbalance brought about from the aforementioned rage or passion, and systematically tortured, abused, and killed helpless animals.

I mean really think about it.

Feeding weaker dogs to the strong, setting up rape stands for breeding, disposing of used up dogs by drowning them, hanging them from trees, soaking them in water and electrocuting them, and on at least one occasion simply beating a dog against the ground until it died.

And don't give me this he grew up this culture excuse. Fighting dogs are bad enough. But the way the were abused is simply insane.

There was no need for that type of torture, there any many humane ways to put down an animal, but i guess humane isn't in your vocabulary if you are establishing that type of hellhole in the first place.

Vick is a sick sick guy, and as much as Talon and others are trying to keep it to football, there are many of us that will never look beyond his decision to create a terror zone that traumatized, tortured, and killed helpless animals.

Absolutely dead on despite those trying to somehow excuse it or claim that everyone does it.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

This is a particularly sore subject with me.

Those that talk of redemption, second chances, paid debts etc.. would you like a convicted murderer as your QB?

I am not equating the death of a human to that of an animal but think for a moment.

A guy gets into a fight at a bar, he kills a man. Someone in a moment of rage or passion lashes out and takes a life. Terrible crimes and they should face terrible consequences for those actions.

Vick and his buddies on the other hand would wake up day after day, not in the heat of a temporary mental imbalance brought about from the aforementioned rage or passion, and systematically tortured, abused, and killed helpless animals.

I mean really think about it.

Feeding weaker dogs to the strong, setting up rape stands for breeding, disposing of used up dogs by drowning them, hanging them from trees, soaking them in water and electrocuting them, and on at least one occasion simply beating a dog against the ground until it died.

And don't give me this he grew up this culture excuse. Fighting dogs are bad enough. But the way the were abused is simply insane.

There was no need for that type of torture, there any many humane ways to put down an animal, but i guess humane isn't in your vocabulary if you are establishing that type of hellhole in the first place.

Vick is a sick sick guy, and as much as Talon and others are trying to keep it to football, there are many of us that will never look beyond his decision to create a terror zone that traumatized, tortured, and killed helpless animals.

I love animals. I've never had a time in my life where I had no pets. I would easily risk my life for my animals, and even go so far as to harm another human if i were defending my animal from them.

What Vick did is terrible. But he went to jail for 2 years and lost a fortune. I highly doubt he will do that stuff again, so yes he gets a pass imo. 2 years is a long time. Does it make him a good person? No.

There are many Mexican football players who I'm sure have no problem with the perfectly legal (in their country) sport of Bull Fighting. Which is just as bad if not worse than dog fighting. Only instead of bull vs bull, it's bull vs men with spears, for fun.

People who drive while heavily drunk, even if they never hit anyone, are worse people than Vick. They constantly put human lives at risk. Plenty of NFL players get DUI's and still play, and those are only the ones who get caught.

If every person who drove drunk, killed dogs instead, there'd be a lot less dead humans. Would you make that trade?

You started by saying you aren't comparing human lives to animals, but then did exactly that in your entire post. Killing dogs does not even come close, and people have served less jail time for doing it than Vick did for killing dogs.

 

[dreghorn2]

What Vick did is terrible. But he went to jail for 2 years and lost a fortune. I highly doubt he will do that stuff again, so yes he gets a pass imo. 2 years is a long time. Does it make him a good person? No.

There are many Mexican football players who I'm sure have no problem with the perfectly legal (in their country) sport of Bull Fighting. Which is just as bad if not worse than dog fighting. Only instead of bull vs bull, it's bull vs men with spears, for fun.

People who drive while heavily drunk, even if they never hit anyone, are worse people than Vick. They constantly put human lives at risk. Plenty of NFL players get DUI's and still play, and those are only the ones who get caught.

If every person who drove drunk, killed dogs instead, there'd be a lot less dead humans. Would you make that trade?

You started by saying you aren't comparing human lives to animals, but then did exactly that in your entire post. Killing dogs does not even come close, and people have served less jail time for doing it than Vick did for killing dogs.

I would disagree with some of your comparisons.

Someone who drinks and drives, without question, makes a decision that could end a human life.

However when they do this, they essentially blank out the consequences of their decision and do so while in an altered state. This is not an excuse, but they do not drive thinking 'i am going to injure someone tonight'.

Even if you make the gigantic stretch to understand that someone might think that dogfighting was ..ok, the manner in which these dogs were treated is incomprehensible.

As mentioned in my previous post the events at Badnewz were undertaken by men fully aware of what they were doing, indeed men who had to think and plan daily how best to 'train' these dogs and to create equipment specifically for that purpose.

The manner in which these dogs were treated and disposed of, undeniably, shows people who were deriving distinct, think about it, distinct pleasure, in seeing incredible pain and suffering coming from the animals they were torturing.

Tell me what type of individual wets down and animal and then electrocutes it.

 

[burmafrd]

Rockwood, you make the point that all his defenders keep avoiding. They refuse to face the fact that he did this time and again over a period of years. Incredible brutality and cruelty. FOR YEARS. I ask those defending him: WHAT does that say about him?

 

[Teren_Kanan]

I would disagree with some of your comparisons.

Someone who drinks and drives, without question, makes a decision that could end a human life.

However when they do this, they essentially blank out the consequences of their decision and do so while in an altered state. This is not an excuse, but they do not drive thinking 'i am going to injure someone tonight'.

Even if you make the gigantic stretch to understand that someone might think that dogfighting was ..ok, the manner in which these dogs were treated is incomprehensible.

As mentioned in my previous post the events at Badnewz were undertaken by men fully aware of what they were doing, indeed men who had to think and plan daily how best to 'train' these dogs and to create equipment specifically for that purpose.

The manner in which these dogs were treated and disposed of, undeniably, shows people who were deriving distinct, think about it, distinct pleasure, in seeing incredible pain and suffering coming from the animals they were torturing.

Tell me what type of individual wets down and animal and then electrocutes it.

Understandable. And again, I loathe those people, please don't get me wrong. I do not think Vick is an "ok guy now". I just think his punishment fit his crime. 2 years is a lot longer than people think when you're in prison.

It's just that I tire of the general consensus that Vick should have been hung or something, because of what he did. Again I'll refer to bull fighting in Mexico. It's completely legal and they treat those animals horribly. Then stab them repeatedly with spears until they die, and it's called a sport there.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

Rockwood, you make the point that all his defenders keep avoiding. They refuse to face the fact that he did this time and again over a period of years. Incredible brutality and cruelty. FOR YEARS. I ask those defending him: WHAT does that say about him?

Says he's a ****ty person who should have been punished for the things he did. Which, he was.

 

[Tom [Giants fan]]

I don't think Vick should have ever been allowed back in the NFL. With my profession, if I had done what he did, I never would have been allowed back in a classroom. Why should he be treated any differently than anyone else would have?

I hope he gets hit hard week after week. I hate his guts.

And yes, I'm a dog lover and it makes me sick to think what he did. Sure, he did his time but that means nothing to me. All I can think of is those dogs every time I see him.