Losing to win

ajk23az

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There' a better record of top 5 picks performing well than there is of teams with losing records doing well in the playoffs.

That might be but it surely doesn't guarantee that said player is going to perform well. I wonder what pick we had when we drafted Frederick, Dez, Lee ? You can get just as good or better players outside the top 10 than you can within it. Again, the draft is a crap shoot.
 

Reality

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Iceberg, I understand your point, but I think the category of those who are rooting for a high draft pick next year needs a little bit of refinement. There are (I think) two types of fans looking forward to a lousy record at the end of the season:

  1. those who want us to purposely throw the games away (I think this is the group your post was targeted to), and
  2. those who wouldn't mind the team losing (despite providing an all-out effort) because they have become numb to the season and are desperate for the team to improve next year (like my 16 year old son, who has never experienced a dominating Cowboys team).

But let me address a special sub-category of the first group.

There are those who will be negative no matter what the circumstances - not just negative, but vindictive, poisonous, consistently merciless. This is the group that I believe hit a nerve with so many and prompted your original post. Now I am going to paint with a very broad brush here, and make some wide generalizations to illustrate a point. So, if you have thin skin, and don't like lectures, it would be best to jump to the next post.

I have come across many people with a consistently negative outlook on the events and circumstances that come in and out of one's life. As I grow older (and hopefully wiser), I have found these people (for the most part) to have a common life experience which precipitates the negative behavior. Most of these folks tend to be stuck in a point of life where they have severely underachieved in several aspects of their lives, and have rationalized that life's deck (the system, society, etc.) is stacked against them, and have used this rationalization to give up the will to strive and win. People in this category become bitter and jealous of anyone who succeeds in life, feeling that somehow it is all a game of chance and the folks who achieve victory and prosperity have somehow won life's lottery.

I have found one other character trait among this group that seems fairly prevalent. The need to create drama and to spend time trying to drag others into their sphere of negativity. Their Viagra comes in the form of a generally positive person becoming locked in an argument filled by negativity. The further they can cause a positive person to become entangled in an argument, the more excited the prospect of spreading their negative world view becomes.

Not every person who has a negative outlook on the team falls into this category, mind you. Some are able to present their points in a logical fashion without personal attack or spitefulness. But be on the lookout for those individuals who's life mission is to spread their rancor out of some perverse sense of fulfillment. Realize in the moment that the energy you expend engaging with such folks is indeed misdirected and in no way will lead to anything positive (both for you, and for the vindictive person, who will rarely change, despite all arguments aimed toward conversion).

Footnote: the "you" referred to here is directed to the general (perhaps younger) audience, not to the original poster. And yes, I understand that this hypothesis sounds arrogant, but by the same token, it is written with the hope that someone reading it will take a life lesson from someone who has learned it the hard way and across several years.

So endeth the lesson.

\soapbox

You are right! There is definitely a difference between fans who want the team to try to win while hoping in the back of their mind the Cowboys lose in order to get a higher draft pick and fans who root for the Cowboys to lose and attack any user or any thread that has the nerve to compliment the team, the staff, the players, etc. after winning a game.

The key is to separate yourself from the latter who, with every post, show their true colors more and more.
 

Doc50

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Iceberg, I understand your point, but I think the category of those who are rooting for a high draft pick next year needs a little bit of refinement. There are (I think) two types of fans looking forward to a lousy record at the end of the season:

  1. those who want us to purposely throw the games away (I think this is the group your post was targeted to), and
  2. those who wouldn't mind the team losing (despite providing an all-out effort) because they have become numb to the season and are desperate for the team to improve next year (like my 16 year old son, who has never experienced a dominating Cowboys team).

But let me address a special sub-category of the first group.

There are those who will be negative no matter what the circumstances - not just negative, but vindictive, poisonous, consistently merciless. This is the group that I believe hit a nerve with so many and prompted your original post. Now I am going to paint with a very broad brush here, and make some wide generalizations to illustrate a point. So, if you have thin skin, and don't like lectures, it would be best to jump to the next post.

I have come across many people with a consistently negative outlook on the events and circumstances that come in and out of one's life. As I grow older (and hopefully wiser), I have found these people (for the most part) to have a common life experience which precipitates the negative behavior. Most of these folks tend to be stuck in a point of life where they have severely underachieved in several aspects of their lives, and have rationalized that life's deck (the system, society, etc.) is stacked against them, and have used this rationalization to give up the will to strive and win. People in this category become bitter and jealous of anyone who succeeds in life, feeling that somehow it is all a game of chance and the folks who achieve victory and prosperity have somehow won life's lottery.

I have found one other character trait among this group that seems fairly prevalent. The need to create drama and to spend time trying to drag others into their sphere of negativity. Their Viagra comes in the form of a generally positive person becoming locked in an argument filled by negativity. The further they can cause a positive person to become entangled in an argument, the more excited the prospect of spreading their negative world view becomes.

Not every person who has a negative outlook on the team falls into this category, mind you. Some are able to present their points in a logical fashion without personal attack or spitefulness. But be on the lookout for those individuals who's life mission is to spread their rancor out of some perverse sense of fulfillment. Realize in the moment that the energy you expend engaging with such folks is indeed misdirected and in no way will lead to anything positive (both for you, and for the vindictive person, who will rarely change, despite all arguments aimed toward conversion).

Footnote: the "you" referred to here is directed to the general (perhaps younger) audience, not to the original poster. And yes, I understand that this hypothesis sounds arrogant, but by the same token, it is written with the hope that someone reading it will take a life lesson from someone who has learned it the hard way and across several years.

So endeth the lesson.

\soapbox

Narcissists, anti-social disorders.............we just can't influence them, and efforts are mostly a waste of time and a source of frustration.
 

Mr Cowboy

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What posters on this forum think and write has no bearing on what the team will actually do. Posters can post about tanking the season or winning out, what does it matter. I doubt Garrett and the rest of the team come on here, read and do what the posters post. It's all opinions on an NFL Football Team's message board. That is what message boards are for, to express you opinion on your favorite football team and discuss amongst other team fans. You don't have to agree with what everyone posts and chose to disagree with them. It does not make you a better fan or a band wagoner. This place would be very boring and would probably die if every poster would post how great Jerry, Garrett and the Cowboys are, or how terrible they are.

I posted last night in the post game thread, that I was rooting for the Cowboys to win, just like I have for every game the past 45 years. But post game, I just didn't feel the excitement that I expected and have felt in the past. Perhaps it was the poor play, the terrible coaching or the fact that I don't see this team winning out. Whatever it was, I don't like the feeling and I hope that moving forward, Jerry sees it and remedies the coaching problem that exist.
 

John813

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Posters just need to relax. Almost getting shades of the Ranch with all the personal attacks.

Address the topic, not the poster.
 

iceberg

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A complaint post about complainers. You showed them...:huh:

ooo - complaining about complaining about complainers!!!! you're right. that's much better and far less confusing. now if we can get someone to complain about my complaining about your complaining about my original complaint, no one will give a damn anymore.

you showed me. (if the point of your post was NOT to *show me* then maybe, just maybe, neither was mine)
 

BigStar

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ooo - complaining about complaining about complainers!!!! you're right. that's much better and far less confusing. now if we can get someone to complain about my complaining about your complaining about my original complaint, no one will give a damn anymore.

you showed me. (if the point of your post was NOT to *show me* then maybe, just maybe, neither was mine)
No, you're right with me. Sense the endless cycle? I wasn't so much complaining, as pointing out that glass house throwing yada...ok I maybe I was complaining a little bit. :D The fans have plenty to complain about, and those tired of the complaints can complain as well while not seeing the irony in their actions.

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gmoney112

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Well, there's a lot of vitriol lately on both ends of the spectrum. Understandably, it's been a disappointing season and emotions are high.

I guess the category I'm in is hoping we fight hard, showing a lot of fight, seeing young guys improve, but also coming up with a top 5 pick.

Why? This team isn't that bad. With Tony, we're one of the best teams in the NFC. We've done a pretty good job with our first rounders outside of Mo, where I think we learned our lesson. We certainly aren't the Jags/Browns/etc who end up with these picks, usually for naught.

Picking at the top of each round can give us a draft that may compare to the 2015 draft. A team in competition, with a lot of young talent, can set themselves up for years stacking some more top picks onto the haul from 2015. I think of teaming Ramsey with Jones in the secondary, two safeties that can line up at S or drop down and play CB. Or trading down, picking up more talent.

Our biggest weakness is Cassel right now, and lack of turnovers. The rest of the team outside of that isn't bad. We need more speed overall, and more playmakers on both sides of the ball, but with Tony healthy we''re running away with the division. I love beating rivals, and I'd never advise tanking because in a competitive atmosphere, but the thought of another off-season where we can build on the 2015 draft with first dibs on talent, is very very tempting.
 

fortdick

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Yeah, that attitude in an athlete is terminal.

The mind set should be to never give up or give in. Win some battles, respect yourself and your teammates and coaches.
This is a military mindset, one that will not accept defeat, and one that at least will always go down fighting.
Remember the Alamo, etc. Anything is possible.
For any true athlete, the challenge is enough to motivate.

The "tanking" mentality for the purpose of draft pick position is a crapshoot at best in this league -- this not the NBA.
So, there's no place for it here, and fans who don't get that have never played or coached sports at a high level -- they think they understand, but they don't and they never will.

Start losing on purpose and the game is corrupt. Why not lose for a payment from the mob?
 

fortdick

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If you can't understand how losing as many games as possible is beneficial to a team that isn't going to make the playoffs then I question your common sense.

People act like it would be a game plan to lose and players will be told not to try. Of course that's not going to happen. But is putting Kellen Moore into the game with a young running back really going to hurt anything? Throw some younger D players in there as well to see what we have. Why keep trotting the same mediocre vets out there that won't/shouldn't be on the team next year just so they win us 1 or 2 meaningless games? No one (with 1/2 a brain) is saying to purposely throw games and not try.

And get out of here with this losing culture nonsense. It's the last 6 games and these guys are professional athletes. Like what do you really think is going to happen? They come out like clueless idiots next season and refuse to play hard because we went 3-13 without Romo? Reading this stuff cracks me up. But hey, if beating the crappy Commanders for our 4th win makes you happy then go ahead and keep cheering for a 7-9 season

I am going out on a limb and say you never played any sport at a high level. Cause even accepting losing makes you a loser.
 

IAmLegend

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Now that I know the Cowboys aren't going to draft a QB in the 1st-Round anyways, I'm beginning to care less and less about our draft position.
 

fortdick

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This board is reaching some kind of breaking point. Someone takes the time to write out their thoughts in a post, and is immediately replied with a child-like response that they didn't read it and refuse to, but it sounds like something they disagree with so they will be snarky and derail any attempt at a discussion.

I see both viewpoints of win/draft as well, but I think one of the best points Iceberg makes is you can't turn off the season and just flip it back on next one. The team didn't quit last night, and very well could have, and that will serve them well this year and more importantly, going forward. Sure it wasn't pretty football, but we saw positive contributions from guys who will absolutely have roles going forward.

Lucky is turning into a real weapon, DLaw had a good game, as did the a lot of the defense. These guys are young and their confidence in their own abilities to perform during actual NFL games is a huge intangible. Losing out could absolutely turn off the "drive" of a player or two who might make game-winning plays in the future.

You can always turn a Madden off and restart the season, can't you? It seems like a lot of people believe they are great Madden GMs, so they know all there is to know about the NFL. You are absolutely correct about the younger players learning to be professionals. If they turn off the drive, they are done.
 

iceberg

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No, you're right with me. Sense the endless cycle? I wasn't so much complaining, as pointing out that glass house throwing yada...ok I maybe I was complaining a little bit. :D The fans have plenty to complain about, and those tired of the complaints can complain as well while not seeing the irony in their actions. Somehow, your OP doesn't qualify as a rant?

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dunno. define "rant".

long? check.
cussing out the team and players? nope.
cussing out other fans? not really. a bit of frustration showing yes, sure. but if that were the qualification for a rant we'd just all be in that zone.
calling out a player, fan, or anyone by name? nope.
out of control emotion? nope.
i *only* post this type of stuff time and time again in every single post? nope.
did i say someone must be fired? nope.

so why would this be a rant, per se? NOT dogging on you - but open question, when would it fall over to rant vs. just a long post?
 

BigStar

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dunno. define "rant".

long? check.
cussing out the team and players? nope.
cussing out other fans? not really. a bit of frustration showing yes, sure. but if that were the qualification for a rant we'd just all be in that zone.
calling out a player, fan, or anyone by name? nope.
out of control emotion? nope.
i *only* post this type of stuff time and time again in every single post? nope.
did i say someone must be fired? nope.

so why would this be a rant, per se? NOT dogging on you - but open question, when would it fall over to rant vs. just a long post?

That's fair; deleted that aspect above.
 

tm1119

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I am going out on a limb and say you never played any sport at a high level. Cause even accepting losing makes you a loser.

Lol this isn't a Hollywood sports movie. All of your stupid cliches don't mean crap in an NFL locker room full of millionaires. And again, no one said the players will be packing it in. If anything the younger players should be hungrier because most are playing for their NFL lives.

And I played college baseball, thanks for your concern though
 
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