Marion and Julius - Roles Changing?

[superpunk]

Is he great at it - no. Does he always go down with the first guy - no. But that is the line everyone always uses. If you don't admit that it is an exaggeration then you are a blind Barber homer.

I like being a blind Cowboys homer, myself.

The stat is subjective, but it's decent enough for a comparative analysis. I can see how it would be hard, though. Ankle tackle, arm tackle, full body - are all these broken tackles, or what? Is Julius getting credit for his patented "Run into the pile full-steam, turn around, and flop with your back downfield" move where he might break a tackle, but he doesn't go anywhere?

He breaks some tackles in traffic. But it's rare that it does him any good.

 

[aikemirv]

I'll say Jones does not do a great job of breaking tackles and does not pick up many yards after contact. Barber on the other hand was hitting the line of scrimmage and coming out the other side and picking up the extra yard. Jones may be faster but he is not the better RB

In comparison to Barber, Jones does not break many tackles but that is not the issue or the quote I was refuting.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I'll be so glad when one of them is gone next year. I like both, but one has to go if only to give me a break from daily threads about it. Ranks right up the daily QB threads we used to have.

It'll be interesting to see if the 'boys extend Barber... I don't think they'll give him franchise money. Maybe Ladell Betts money.

I think Julius will garner a nice contract next year...prolly equal to Betts' too.

Neither are elite, but they're both solid backs. Calvin Watkins had a pretty good take on the RB situation.

 

[aikemirv]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95880

Watch that first down by JJ that was called back and tell me how many tackles he broke. Because he fought through 3 defenders to get that first down.

 

[superpunk]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95880

Watch that first down by JJ that was called back and tell me how many tackles he broke. Because he fought through 3 defenders to get that first down.

He broke one tackle.

 

[aikemirv]

He broke one tackle.

So when they hit him 2 yards short of the first down and he got the 2 yards that does not count?

 

[Doomsday101]

In comparison to Barber, Jones does not break many tackles but that is not the issue or the quote I was refuting.

Jones does not break a lot of tackles period not just compared to Barber. That does not mean he has never broken a tackle but he is not a difficult back to bring down and does not get much after contact. I don't hate the guy but I have watched enough football over the years to know that other than speed he does not offer up much for a defense to worry about. In games where he has put up big number there have been big holes to run through and with his speed and quick moves he can put up some big numbers.

 

[anygivensun]

Maybe it's in what they define as a "tackle". Just my opinion but he seems to run straight ahead into the pile and fall down. So maybe he is not getting "tackled" but he is not making forward progress either. I also think he must lack the "Vision thing". It's almost like he is not picking a hole but running in a straight line. If the hole is there, great, he gets a few yards. If there is no hole then he falls down. I'm not a Barber homer or a Jones hater. I've been pulling for Jones for two years now, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing. I'm a Cowboys homer so I hope both Jones & Barber turn into monsters so we can cross "running back" from our list of needs and we can go on to draft or sign needed players in other positions.

 

[Doomsday101]

Maybe it's in what they define as a "tackle". Just my opinion but he seems to run straight ahead into the pile and fall down. So maybe he is not getting "tackled" but he is not making forward progress either. I also think he must lack the "Vision thing". It's almost like he is not picking a hole but running in a straight line. If the hole is there, great, he gets a few yards. If there is no hole then he falls down. I'm not a Barber homer or a Jones hater. I've been pulling for Jones for two years now, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing. I'm a Cowboys homer so I hope both Jones & Barber turn into monsters so we can cross "running back" from our list of needs and we can go on to draft or sign needed players in other positions.

I agree heck Barber has been doing a better job of bouncing plays when there is nothing in front of him.

 

[Verdict]

I don't see any noticeable improvement in Jones effectiveness or running style since last year. It seems that Jones' complaints that Parcells had him running like a robot were only an excuse for his lackluster performance.

It is also worth noting that most people would agree that the offensive line play this year is much better than last year, probably due in large part to our signing of L. "BIG" Davis. I still see Julius running into the back of his offensive linemen and falling down, much like he did last year.

I will concede that he seems to take the swing pass out of the backfield a little better than last year, but I would expect him to be MUCH more effective this year running behind this line.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That 3rd and 3 run defines the Julius Jones of the past 2 years.

 

[superpunk]

So when they hit him 2 yards short of the first down and he got the 2 yards that does not count?

Not sure what you're talking about.

But unless I miscounted, he broke one tackle, got the first down, ran to the sideline and tried to do some sort of leap back to middle of the field and got tackled.

You asked us to count.

 

[theogt]

I'll be so glad when one of them is gone next year. I like both, but one has to go if only to give me a break from daily threads about it. Ranks right up the daily QB threads we used to have.

It'll be interesting to see if the 'boys extend Barber... I don't think they'll give him franchise money. Maybe Ladell Betts money.

I think Julius will garner a nice contract next year...prolly equal to Betts' too.

Neither are elite, but they're both solid backs. Calvin Watkins had a pretty good take on the RB situation.

I have no interest in going back and forth about which is a better back. But I was looking at the carries and found what I posted in the OP to be interesting.

If there is something happening that is affecting our starting lineup and a trend continues that ends with Barber getting the majority of the carries, I can't see how any Cowboys fan wouldn't find that interesting to talk about.

 

[aikemirv]

Jones does not break a lot of tackles period not just compared to Barber. That does not mean he has never broken a tackle but he is not a difficult back to bring down and does not get much after contact. I don't hate the guy but I have watched enough football over the years to know that other than speed he does not offer up much for a defense to worry about. In games where he has put up big number there have been big holes to run through and with his speed and quick moves he can put up some big numbers.

but wait.....

My two cents: Jones' strenghts - Fast on the open field. Oh, seems to be a nice guy too. Jones' weaknesses - Falls down as soon as he gets touched. Not hit, but touched. He needs to run tougher or he'll be falling right out of the NFL.


I know I did not see him break tackles yesterday because this guy posted this exaggerration!!!

By the way that was the post we were responding to was it not!!!!

 

[Hoov]

Oh and at least it is a stat that is garnered from someone who has no bias on who the Cowboys starter should be!!

I have a bias...start barber NOW !!!!

 

[Clove]

. Jones' weaknesses - Falls down as soon as he gets touched. Not hit, but touched. He needs to run tougher or he'll be falling right out of the NFL.

:laugh2: :laugh1: Wow! I have noticed that he goes down rather easily, not to mention, if he sees a pile in front of him, he'll run into it, where as the SLOWER Barber tries to find another option, which actually hurts him sometimes, but since Barber is good at breaking tackles, he can afford to do that. **sometimes**

 

[Doomsday101]

but wait.....

My two cents: Jones' strenghts - Fast on the open field. Oh, seems to be a nice guy too. Jones' weaknesses - Falls down as soon as he gets touched. Not hit, but touched. He needs to run tougher or he'll be falling right out of the NFL.


I know I did not see him break tackles yesterday because this guy posted this exaggerration!!!

By the way that was the post we were responding to was it not!!!!

I agree that saying he is touched is an exaggeration but when most people say that what they are referring to is he can't run through a tackle and goes down far too easy. It like me saying QC could not hit the side of a barn I'm sure he could but his accuracy sucked none the less. There are many sayings people use to make a point that could be considered an exaggeration. The WR was so bad he could not catch a cold, I’m sure he could catch a cold he just can’t catch the damn ball. :laugh2:

 

[Hoov]

I have no interest in going back and forth about which is a better back. But I was looking at the carries and found what I posted in the OP to be interesting.

Instigator :

 

[aikemirv]

Not sure what you're talking about.

But unless I miscounted, he broke one tackle, got the first down, ran to the sideline and tried to do some sort of leap back to middle of the field and got tackled.

You asked us to count.

Sorry there are 2 videos in that thread, the one I am talking about is the run later that was called back on a holding call on Davis.

 

[percyhoward]

JJ - 15 carries.
MBIII - 14 carries.

Are we truly starting to see their roles switch this early?

Funny that you would start a thread about it, since I said the same thing in this thread almost a month ago, and you basically (and insistantly) said I didn't know what I was talking about.

It started last season, continued into the preseason, and now it's been happening for two regular season games. It's good to see, because it will benefit both backs.

Still gotta substitute some of Julius' runs for pass receptions though.