Marion Barber=Troy Hambrick

[Preacha Mane]

Im not going to dispute the fact that Barber's numbers when it comes to TDs arent as stagering as a starting running back as they were when he was the 'Closer', but many factors go into that. For one Barber was fresh coming in against defensive guys that had been 'worn down' that alone is going to give you an extra step or two. We also have more depth at the RB position now than before (Id take both Felix or Choice over Julius any day), which is going to cut down on Barber's redzone opportunities, which in turn is going to lower his TD rate. Another big factor is the NFL is constantly adapting. By that I mean if defensive players are struggling to tackle the closer version of Barber, they are going to change their approach. They are going to change the angle at which they come in to tackle (which ive noticed a lot of DBs have done) or get lower bc as everyone knows in football the lowest man wins.

As far as Barber tripping in the open field Sunday and in past games, Ive noticed that he gets to moving to fast. That is his upper body is so far out in front that his legs cant keep up, causing him to stimble and fall forward. I see it as hes just tryn to make a play and gets to running too hard for his own good.

Finally i dont think people are argueing the fact that Barber isnt a more productive 'closer' than starter, as much as they are disagreeing with your comparision to Hambrick! Which i have to agree is an extremly outlandish comparision. Troy wasnt anywhere close to the back that Baber is. Hambrick couldnt even hold 'The Horse's' (Barber) jock!

 

[JBell]

I don't see why people are so upset at the comparison.

MBIII is a tough solid back. But let's be honest, we overpaid for him.

If he wasn't such a TD vulture the past couple years he wouldn't be considered so good by some of you.

He hasn't even managed a 1,000 yard season yet, and unless he explodes next week at Philly he probably never will.

 

[KJJ]

Im not going to dispute the fact that Barber's numbers when it comes to TDs arent as stagering as a starting running back as they were when he was the 'Closer', but many factors go into that. For one Barber was fresh coming in against defensive guys that had been 'worn down' that alone is going to give you an extra step or two. We also have more depth at the RB position now than before (Id take both Felix or Choice over Julius any day), which is going to cut down on Barber's redzone opportunities, which in turn is going to lower his TD rate. Another big factor is the NFL is constantly adapting. By that I mean if defensive players are struggling to tackle the closer version of Barber, they are going to change their approach. They are going to change the angle at which they come in to tackle (which ive noticed a lot of DBs have done) or get lower bc as everyone knows in football the lowest man wins.

As far as Barber tripping in the open field Sunday and in past games, Ive noticed that he gets to moving to fast. That is his upper body is so far out in front that his legs cant keep up, causing him to stimble and fall forward. I see it as hes just tryn to make a play and gets to running too hard for his own good.

Finally i dont think people are argueing the fact that Barber isnt a more productive 'closer' than starter, as much as they are disagreeing with your comparision to Hambrick! Which i have to agree is an extremly outlandish comparision. Troy wasnt anywhere close to the back that Baber is. Hambrick couldnt even hold 'The Horse's' (Barber) jock!

Barber was sharing time with Julius who was the starter. JJ was getting most of the carries but Barber was a beast in the redzone and as a closer because as you mentioned he was fresh and he was going up against tired defenses. Even though we have a 3 back rotation Barber gets the most carries and he still gets as many redzone opportunities as he did when he was sharing the load with Julius. Felix just started getting more carries the past 2 games but prior to that he was only averaging about 6 carries a game. Choice gets very few carries unless it's in the wildcat formation. Choice and Felix combined don't get as many carries as Julius got. The heavier workload has made Barber less effective. Before he became the starter he never got hurt. Since he's become the starter he's had a toe problem that made him totally ineffective the last 4 games last season and a quad injury this year that may still be hampering him.

I'm basing the Hambrick comparison off of Barbers last few games. Hambrick use to get ahead of himself and stumble down in the open field and he was having trouble picking up 3rd and short. I'm certainly not basing the Hambrick comparison over what Barber has done throughout his career but mostly from what little he's done the past few weeks. Let's face it compared to some of the top backs in the league Barbers numbers pale in comparison and he's not getting it done in short yardage situations which was his strong point.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

Almost identical? Better check your math Einstein he had 26 TD's as a "backup" with "fewer" carries and he had 17 TD's since as the "starter" and he's getting more carries. That comes out to 9 fewer TD's as a starter with more opportunities and you call that almost identical? :laugh2: He had 135 carries in 06 and scored 14 TD's.

He avg. 12.8 rushing attempts per game in 2007... his "best season"

This season he's avg. 14.3 rushing attempts per game

In 2007 he had 10 TD's, while missing 0 games

This season he has 7 TD's, while missing one game, and still has one game to play...

In 2006, he had a total of 53 redzone carries, and 8 TD's in the 4th quarter

In 2007, he had a total of 48 redzone carries

This season he's had a total of 38 redzone carries, and only 1 TD in the fourth quarter.

Any back in the league would benefit from being the "backup" coming in against a demoralized defense and running through them... It's not unusual for production to go down when a back becomes a "starter", even though in this case the "starter" is only getting 1.5 more carries per game than when he was the "closer."

 

[Concord]

http://i73.***BLOCKED***/albums/i216/OnkelC/01forumpics/newthread-cat-bite.gif

:laugh2:

 

[Thomas82]

MB3 is definitely not what he used to be, but he is far from being as bad as Troy Hambrick.

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

MB3 is not nearly as good as Hambrick. I've never even seen MB3 use the 'dookie stick.'

 

[Dave_in-NC]

He avg. 12.8 rushing attempts per game in 2007... his "best season"

This season he's avg. 14.3 rushing attempts per game

In 2007 he had 10 TD's, while missing 0 games

This season he has 7 TD's, while missing one game, and still has one game to play...

In 2006, he had a total of 53 redzone carries, and 8 TD's in the 4th quarter

In 2007, he had a total of 48 redzone carries

This season he's had a total of 38 redzone carries, and only 1 TD in the fourth quarter.

Any back in the league would benefit from being the "backup" coming in against a demoralized defense and running through them... It's not unusual for production to go down when a back becomes a "starter", even though in this case the "starter" is only getting 1.5 more carries per game than when he was the "closer."

Thank you!

 

[Preacha Mane]

he's not getting it done in short yardage situations which was his strong point.

To put all of the short yardage problems on Barber is unfair. IMO some of the problem comes down to play calling in those situations. With our huge line and back in Barber, teams know we are going to try and out muscle them. Thats why they stack the line of scrimmage and just bring the house. At some point after you fail so many times, try a QB sneak on 3rd n 1 or 4th n inches, do a play action pass out of the goaline formation, or a toss. With that said, the most important factor in the running game is the hog daddies up front. There arent many running backs out there that can gain much when being met a yard in the backfield or at the line. In the 3rd or 4th short yardage situations, it comes down to all out will and determination. The o-line has to say im better than the guy lined up across from me and im going to prove it by blowing him off the line. Its a pride thing, they have to take pride in being called on in those situations and get the job done.

 

[Doctor32]

Put me in the minority that sees him as a great back. He catches well, picks up the blitz, and fights for every yard.

He isn't 100%, the line is terrible blocking in short yardage situations, and RJ isn't maximizing his potential as a closer.

Agreed. These comparisons to Hambrick, Jacobs and others are absurd. Fans can really suck sometimes. Barber is great.

 

[Nexx]

here is what i see. barber still tries to pound but instead of bouncing off the hits like he use to, he seems to fall down now. he goes down on initial contact and a lot time he does fall foward for a yard to two more but he no longer sustains his runs after contact. not good.

 

[casmith07]

The OP obviously doesn't remember Troy Hambrick.

 

[DallasEast]

The OP obviously doesn't remember Troy Hambrick.

Or he has an inflated recollection of Troy Hambrick.

 

[iceberg]

The point I was making when I started this thread isn't about what Barber has done his entire career it's what he's doing now and "right now" he's starting to remind me of Troy Hambrick. He looks awful running in the open field and he keeps getting stuffed when we only need a freaking yard. The Cowboys use Barber in all the same situations they used him in 07 when he was a backup but he's not nearly as effective in those situations now as he was then. In 06 and 07 he was virtually unstoppable in the redzone. Once the Cowboys got inside the opponents 5 yardline no one could keep MB from scoring. The power, burst and leg drive he had then is what made him the Barbarian. He had 24 TD's in 06-07 which proves how hard he was to stop. In 08-09 he's had 14 TD's and he gets just as many opportunities if not more in those scoring situations but he can't convert nearly as many because he's not the same player. He's not very effective on first down I bet he barely averages 3 yards a carry on first down. Someone Mentioned Earl Campbell and how he ended up.

Campbell was spectacular for 5 years but his aggressive style of crashing into defenders and trying to dish out punishment led to only 5 great seasons. His drop off was pretty shocking. He started going down alot easier and he slowed up. He couldn't run away from defenders anymore. Campbell came into the league in 78 and was washed up by 84. The lifespan of an RB isn't very long especially one who takes and dishes out punishment the way Barber does. He couldn't shake the toe injury last year and who knows maybe his quad is still bothering him but that injury was over 3 months ago. From what I'm seeing right now Barber looks about 2 years away from being done. If I were the Cowboys I would be rotating Felix and Choice and pick my spots with Barber to keep his legs fresh so maybe he get us a yard when we need it.

oh i got your point, i just don't agree with your point.

barber is far away more of a player than hambrick will ever be. hell, in emmetts last years, can we say things like that too?

sooner or later to me a player has earned a level of respect. you don't seem to agree and want to fall back on silly (to me) extreme statement then pull non-existant facts out to back it up.

barber does have a punishing style of running that most backs don't have long careers with. period. he's also still not 100% this year. but given what he has done (sorry, i won't cherry pick the situation to meet my dramafied statement) over his career, i'm willing to live through it hoping we'll get the regular back soon.

this isn't to say that i'm not frustated as heck at the recent 1 yard attempts he's not cleared. i can put some of that on the line, but i put some of that on barber too. so yea, i agree barber isn't the barber we've had in the past.

i think you're just out to be insulting when you call him hambrick for your own needs.

 

[Concord]

Wow how the mighty have fallen.

Hambrick couldn't carry Barber's Jock.

 

[Shinywalrus]

The Hambrick comparison makes no sense, I haven't even seen an argument for it. Even the respun "starting to resemble" argument doesn't have any support.

Barber is a good back that happens to be the second or third best back on a team with exceptional running backs. He's a good workhorse and a quality runner.

Just as an aside, the weirdest thing is that I don't recall Barber ever being a very good short yardage back. I think it's a weird myth that so-called "bruising" backs like Barber are going to be better in that situation. If two defensive tackles get in front of him, he's not going to bowl over them. Barber and others of his type excel once they've established a head of steam.

Quicker backs with good balance and fast decision-making skills and vision are the order of the day. We have two of them on the roster, but for some reason we don't use them in short yardage...and the one we do use, we line up 5 yards behind the line and give him a delayed handoff so that there are 4 hosses in the backfield by the time his lethargic rear end makes it to the LOS.

Makes no sense, but it's not on Barber and it certainly doesn't make him anything like that crackhead. Goodness gracious.

 

[KJJ]

The OP obviously doesn't remember Troy Hambrick.

I remember Troy Hambrick very well and if you have any recollection you'll remember almost every Cowboys fan out there wanted him to be the starter because he was breaking one run after another spelling Emmitt Smith. In 2001 he was practically doing what Barber was doing when he would come in for Julius except Hambrick showed more speed. In 2001 Hambrick averaged 5.1 a carry and had an 80 yard. Hambricks two longest runs from scrimmage of his career were 80 and 62 yards. The longest run Barber has had from scrimmage is 52 yards. Barbers career best rushing performance was 142 yards compared to Hambricks career best of 189 yards. That 189 yard day by Hambrick was the 3rd greatest rushing performance in team history. Barbers strong points have been his power and determination. Two years ago his ability to pick up short yardage and keep the chains moving was second to none. My Hambrick/Barber comparison has to do with Barbers last few games not his career. The guy has obviously declined from where he was 2 years ago. He CLEARLY doesn't have the same burst or leg drive he once had. He's also gotten slower in the open field. He's hesitating and dancing around looking for a seam instead of doing what he use to do when there wasn't anything there and that was to lower his head and drive his legs and upper body into the pile and pull his way for the required yardage. You just don't see the burst, power and leg drive we once saw and that's because the heavier workload is starting to take it's toll on his body.

Injuries are starting occur and he's having trouble shaking them. These are all things that started happening to Earl Campbell. Two years ago comparing Barber to Hambrick was laughable but the last few games Barber has been looking Hambrick like. He's stumbling in the open field and he can't pick up an important yard. It's not looking pretty with him "right now". Barbers best rushing average the last 4 games has been 3.7 a carry. In the 14 games Barber has played this season he's been under 4 yards a carry in 7 of those games. Bottom line the Cowboys need a more productive, explosive back as their feature back. Barber is a role player and is best suited for the role we had him in prior to 08. It kept him healthy, fresh and he was scoring lots of TD's and was able to keep the chains moving when we needed an important yard on 3rd and 4th down. Right now he's a shell of the player he use to be.

 

[iceberg]

I remember Troy Hambrick very well and if you have any recollection you'll remember almost every Cowboys fan out there wanted him to be the starter because he was breaking one run after another spelling Emmitt Smith. In 2001 he was practically doing what Barber was doing when he would come in for Julius except Hambrick showed more speed. In 2001 Hambrick averaged 5.1 a carry and had an 80 yard. Hambricks two longest runs from scrimmage of his career were 80 and 62 yards. The longest run Barber has had from scrimmage is 52 yards. Barbers career best rushing performance was 142 yards compared to Hambricks career best of 189 yards. That 189 yard day by Hambrick was the 3rd greatest rushing performance in team history. Barbers strong points have been his power and determination. Two years ago his ability to pick up short yardage and keep the chains moving was second to none. My Hambrick/Barber comparison has to do with Barbers last few games not his career. The guy has obviously declined from where he was 2 years ago. He CLEARLY doesn't have the same burst or leg drive he once had. He's also gotten slower in the open field. He's hesitating and dancing around looking for a seam instead of doing what he use to do when there wasn't anything there and that was to lower his head and drive his legs and upper body into the pile and pull his way for the required yardage. You just don't see the burst, power and leg drive we once saw and that's because the heavier workload is starting to take it's toll on his body.

Injuries are starting occur and he's having trouble shaking them. These are all things that started happening to Earl Campbell. Two years ago comparing Barber to Hambrick was laughable but the last few games Barber has been looking Hambrick like. He's stumbling in the open field and he can't pick up an important yard. It's not looking pretty with him "right now". Barbers best rushing average the last 4 games has been 3.7 a carry. In the 14 games Barber has played this season he's been under 4 yards a carry in 7 of those games. Bottom line the Cowboys need a more productive, explosive back as their feature back. Barber is a role player and is best suited for the role we had him in prior to 08. It kept him healthy, fresh and he was scoring lots of TD's and was able to keep the chains moving when we needed an important yard on 3rd and 4th down. Right now he's a shell of the player he use to be.

so this is why bloggers use the RETURN key a lot....

my eyes hurt. if i actually read all this, my brain would too.

 

[Shinywalrus]

I remember Troy Hambrick very well and if you have any recollection you'll remember almost every Cowboys fan out there wanted him to be the starter because he was breaking one run after another spelling Emmitt Smith. In 2001 he was practically doing what Barber was doing when he would come in for Julius except Hambrick showed more speed. In 2001 Hambrick averaged 5.1 a carry and had an 80 yard. Hambricks two longest runs from scrimmage of his career were 80 and 62 yards. The longest run Barber has had from scrimmage is 52 yards. Barbers career best rushing performance was 142 yards compared to Hambricks career best of 189 yards. That 189 yard day by Hambrick was the 3rd greatest rushing performance in team history. Barbers strong points have been his power and determination. Two years ago his ability to pick up short yardage and keep the chains moving was second to none. My Hambrick/Barber comparison has to do with Barbers last few games not his career. The guy has obviously declined from where he was 2 years ago. He CLEARLY doesn't have the same burst or leg drive he once had. He's also gotten slower in the open field. He's hesitating and dancing around looking for a seam instead of doing what he use to do when there wasn't anything there and that was to lower his head and drive his legs and upper body into the pile and pull his way for the required yardage. You just don't see the burst, power and leg drive we once saw and that's because the heavier workload is starting to take it's toll on his body.

Injuries are starting occur and he's having trouble shaking them. These are all things that started happening to Earl Campbell. Two years ago comparing Barber to Hambrick was laughable but the last few games Barber has been looking Hambrick like. He's stumbling in the open field and he can't pick up an important yard. It's not looking pretty with him "right now". Barbers best rushing average the last 4 games has been 3.7 a carry. In the 14 games Barber has played this season he's been under 4 yards a carry in 7 of those games. Bottom line the Cowboys need a more productive, explosive back as their feature back. Barber is a role player and is best suited for the role we had him in prior to 08. It kept him healthy, fresh and he was scoring lots of TD's and was able to keep the chains moving when we needed an important yard on 3rd and 4th down. Right now he's a shell of the player he use to be.

If I replaced every time you said "Barber" with "Adrian Peterson" in this post, it would have been almost 100% as factually accurate, and yet every bit as wrong in its ultimate conclusions.

How much of Felix's exceptional productivity is owed to Barber's carries? How does he contribute to pass blocking? How much can you really draw from a 4-game span, especially one beginning essentially when your best run blocker was lost for the season?

 

[KJJ]

The Hambrick comparison makes no sense, I haven't even seen an argument for it.

I've made a good argument for it. Sorry that some of you are in denial and still see the same MB from 2 years ago. Just look at Barbers last few games they've been Hambrick like...FACT! If some of you want to spin it that I'm saying Barber has been nothing but another Troy Hambrick then you really need to work on your comprehension skills. I'm pointing out what Barber is looking like "now" as in the last few games. The Last few games he's been like watching Troy Hambrick all over again from the stumbling in the open field to the hesitating and dancing around on 3rd and 4th and a yard.