Marshawn Kneeland. Waste of a 2nd Round Pick

[cnuball21]

Tell me how many players in the 2022 draft 2nd round have performed above average by your estimaton ? Your expectations are too high. How many sacks does a 2nd round pick have to have to justify his selection. And Kneeland by most experts was not a so called reach.

I think a lot of posters, myself included, were very high on Travis Jones who was ranked as a 2nd rounder and filled a major need. He’s turned into a solid player who I would’ve taken way over Williams before the draft and now in hindsight. Thats just off of the top of my head going from memory without looking at the draft tracker that year.

And I agree Kneeland was fairly good value based off the consensus boards which I normally agree with…but one of my big things for small schoolers is they have to
dominate if you take them early which he clearly didn’t.

 

[cnuball21]

I think a lot of posters, myself included, were very high on Travis Jones who was ranked as a 2nd rounder and filled a major need. He’s turned into a solid player who I would’ve taken way over Williams before the draft and now in hindsight. Thats just off of the top of my head going from memory without looking at the draft tracker that year.

And I agree Kneeland was fairly good value based off the consensus boards which I normally agree with…but one of my big things for small schoolers is they have to
dominate if you take them early which he clearly didn’t.

And after quick glance Raihmann and Woolen would’ve been BPA pick and they’ve also turned into studs…

 

[Malhavoc]

I think a lot of posters, myself included, were very high on Travis Jones who was ranked as a 2nd rounder and filled a major need. He’s turned into a solid player who I would’ve taken way over Williams before the draft and now in hindsight. Thats just off of the top of my head going from memory without looking at the draft tracker that year.

And I agree Kneeland was fairly good value based off the consensus boards which I normally agree with…but one of my big things for small schoolers is they have to
dominate if you take them early which he clearly didn’t.

You just said you would have taken Jones who is a solid player. A one dimensional player much like Williams, who is simply a pass rusher at this time. Neither of these guys fit your criteria as an above average player. Why are you holding Kneeland to a different standard ?Will he be a failure if he is just solid like Travis Jones ?

 

[cnuball21]

You just said you would have taken Jones who is a solid player. A one dimensional player much like Williams, who is simply a pass rusher at this time. Neither of these guys fit your criteria as an above average player. Why are you holding Kneeland to a different standard ?Will he be a failure if he is just solid like Travis Jones ?

Jones is coming off a top 5 run stuff rate for all DTs in football and he’s still developing as a pass rusher.

Thats better than anything Williams has done. I also don’t think it’s an apples to apples comparison looking at a DE vs DTs as prospects but I think it’s fair to say Jones has comfortably been a better player than Williams.

 

[cnuball21]

Jones is coming off a top 5 run stuff rate for all DTs in football and he’s still developing as a pass rusher.

Thats better than anything Williams has done. I also don’t think it’s an apples to apples comparison looking at a DE vs DTs as prospects but I think it’s fair to say Jones has comfortably been a better player than Williams.

And I’d consider Jones above average with an arrow pointing upwards…

 

[Cowboyny]

I get it…I understand there’s upside for pass rushing but I’m not using a premium pick on a small schooler that had borderline below average production. If we’re having this discussion about a 3/4th rounder it makes total sense.

But we’re honestly talking about drafting an outlier in the 2nd. How many recent small school DEs have not had high production and turned into above average players in the NFL? Zero prospects come to mind. I’m sure we can dig some up but is it honesty worth it drafting an outlier in the 2nd?

And I don’t think it’s fair to compare Kneeland to an OLmen…

Time will tell if he was worth his draft slot or not. Personally, I think he is never going to be a huge sack player, but will still be an impactful starter. He will do the dirty work and allow others to reap the rewards

 

[Malhavoc]

And after quick glance Raihmann and Woolen would’ve been BPA pick and they’ve also turned into studs…

Dude c’mon. You know Raimann and Woolen are exceptions. And they turned out better than most players you graded with a higher grade. Heck Raimann puts to shame Travis Jones that you said you would have taken.

 

[cnuball21]

Time will tell if he was worth his draft slot or not. Personally, I think he is never going to be a huge sack player, but will still be an impactful starter. He will do the dirty work and allow others to reap the rewards

Which is fine…but again if that’s the case we could’ve gotten that kind of player later in the draft.

 

[cnuball21]

Dude c’mon. You know Raimann and Woolen are exceptions. And they turned out better than most players you graded with a higher grade. Heck Raimann puts to shame Travis Jones that you said you would have taken.

I listed out 3 players that were the highest on the consensus draft board when we took Williams…who was rated significantly lower.

It’s not a cherry picking exercise…it’s literally looking at the consensus board that year and seeing who was ranked the highest when we picked in the 2nd.

3 players…you can pick any of them and they’re all playing better than Williams.

 

[Malhavoc]

And I’d consider Jones above average with an arrow pointing upwards…

How is that ? He’s a one dimensional solid player. Hasn’t developed into anything more than a run stopper. So why are you holding Kneeland to a different standard .

 

[cnuball21]

How is that ? He’s a one dimensional solid player. Hasn’t developed into anything more than a run stopper. So why are you holding Kneeland to a different standard .

BC DE is a different position that is evaluated differently.

 

[Malhavoc]

I listed out 3 players that were the highest on the consensus draft board when we took Williams…who was rated significantly lower.

It’s not a cherry picking exercise…it’s literally looking at the consensus board that year and seeing who was ranked the highest when we picked in the 2nd.

3 players…you can pick any of them and they’re all playing better than Williams.

We will agree to disagree on Jones. I don’t think he’s performed any better than Williams. The two other players should have been picked far sooner than what your board indicated. What that means is the boards were wrong. Heck Woolen went in the 5th round. Every team passed on the guy 4 times.

 

[cnuball21]

We will agree to disagree on Jones. I don’t think he’s performed any better than Williams. The two other players should have been picked far sooner than what your board indicated. What that means is the boards were wrong. Heck Woolen went in the 5th round. Every team passed on the guy 4 times.

That’s fair, but I have you 3 examples not 1. And it’s not my board it’s literally the consensus board that congregates from all major media sites. It’s available to the public.

And that’s the whole point of drafting BPA…you draft guys that shouldn’t be there.

 

[Malhavoc]

BC DE is a different position that is evaluated differen

So what is the expectation of a 2nd round DE ? And tell me how many Edge players taken in the last few draft mDT that criteria.

 

[Malhavoc]

Jones is coming off a top 5 run stuff rate for all DTs in football and he’s still developing as a pass rusher.

Thats better than anything Williams has done. I also don’t think it’s an apples to apples comparison looking at a DE vs DTs as prospects but I think it’s fair to say Jones has comfortably been a better player than Williams.

And he’s a rotation player that played less snaps than Pierce and has provided almost no pass rush. You see a comfortable better payer, I don’t.

 

[cnuball21]

So what is the expectation of a 2nd round DE ? And tell me how many Edge players taken in the last few draft mDT that criteria.

If I’m spending a top 50/70 ish pick I want a slightly above average starter. A quality DE2. Examples from the last 3ish years.

Tuli
Byron Young
Dayo
AJ Epinesa
Jon Greenard
Highsmith

and of course Tank!

 

[cnuball21]

And he’s a rotation player that played less snaps than Pierce and has provided almost no pass rush. You see a comfortable better payer, I don’t.

Agree to disagree.

 

[big dog cowboy]

The problem is Williams was also a massive reach lol

Here we go again. Williams was projected as a 3rd round pick by most who could likely be taken earlier than that because of his measurables.

The Cowboys got him at 56, a late 2nd rounder. That is NOT a massive overreach.

 

[Malhavoc]

Time will tell if he was worth his draft slot or not. Personally, I think he is never going to be a huge sack player, but will still be an impactful starter. He will do the dirty work and allow others to reap the rewards

What is your expectation ? A 6- 8 sack guy he’s certainly capable of. Also a guy capable of anchoring your edge. Dude dominates- just not as a pass rusher. Go look at the 2nd and 3rd round pass rushers taken in the last couple drafts in round 2 and later. How many of them are double digit sack guys ? How many of them are true 3 down players ?

 

[cnuball21]

Here we go again. Williams was projected as a 3rd round pick by most who could likely be taken earlier than that because of his measurables.

The Cowboys got him at 56, a late 2nd rounder. That is NOT a massive overreach.

Yes. He was 78 on the consensus board taken at 56…a delta of 22 slots. AKA big reach.