Mavs/Heat Finals thread

[CATCH17]

With Dallas having so many seven footers and Jason Kidd, they should never get out rebounded. Rebounding is both a skill and requires effort. We know they have some skilled rebounders, but sometimes the effort just isn't there.

Dirk used to average over 10 rebounds a game, he hasn't been rebounding like that lately. Lately he has been averaging around 8.

I think playing so much zone plays the biggest factor.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

There is no excuse for his rebounding but that early foul and the way the refs were calling the game when Lewade went to the hole played a factor in that.

Haywood played some decent ball last night though.

Still, 4 boards in 35 minutes and 16 offensive rebounds by the heat says it all. There is just no excuse for that. Heck, rebounding should be easier when you have foul trouble because you know you can't be as aggressive defensively so you should be more able to get yourself in good rebounding position. I don't know Catch, he's just got to do a better job then that.

 

[TheCount]

I don't think foul trouble plays any part in going after rebounds, personally. I've played tons of basketball, and never heard a guy say he couldn't go after the ball because he was in foul trouble.

Try telling that one to your coach, he'd bench you. If you're scared to pick up a foul rebounding, then how the heck are you gonna play defense?

It's funny people are complaining about the reffing, I saw bad calls both ways last night.

 

[CATCH17]

I don't think foul trouble plays any part in going after rebounds, personally. I've played tons of basketball, and never heard a guy say he couldn't go after the ball because he was in foul trouble.

Try telling that one to your coach, he'd bench you. If you're scared to pick up a foul rebounding, then how the heck are you gonna play defense?

It's funny people are complaining about the reffing, I saw bad calls both ways last night.

I saw bad calls both ways too but the timing of the bad calls is what hurt Dallas the most.

The and 1's they were getting were rediculous.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I don't think foul trouble plays any part in going after rebounds, personally. I've played tons of basketball, and never heard a guy say he couldn't go after the ball because he was in foul trouble.

Try telling that one to your coach, he'd bench you. If you're scared to pick up a foul rebounding, then how the heck are you gonna play defense?

It's funny people are complaining about the reffing, I saw bad calls both ways last night.

The officiating wasnt awful by NBA standards, but I agree there were bad calls both ways.

That being said, the TYPES of bad calls benefited the Heat. For instance, Miami got called for a couple ticky tack hand checks and Dallas got away with a couple moving picks. On the other hand, Miami got two "And 1s" in the second half where the offensive player literally wasnt touched and Dirk got called for a foul on a clean strip with three minutes left and Dallas down six. The timing of the bad calls didnt really effect the Heat while it hurt Dallas.

The biggest officiating issue I had is that Lebron, Bosh and Wade are NEVER called for over the back because the refs just assume athletic guys can't commit that foul. They do it EVERY SINGLE TIME a shot is missed.

 

[TheCount]

The biggest officiating issue I had is that Lebron, Bosh and Wade are NEVER called for over the back because the refs just assume athletic guys can't commit that foul. They do it EVERY SINGLE TIME a shot is missed.

I'm not sure I remember the specific plays you're referencing but a ref can't call over the back just because a guy is boxed out and still out jumps the man for the ball.

Over the back, like most calls, is based on contact, not positioning. As long as you don't dislodge the man boxing you out to get the ball, you are free to jump and snatch the ball wherever it is.

Like I said, I don't remember the exact plays you're talking about but there is some truth to an athletic guy not being called for over the back if they are just out jumping the man attempting to box them out.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I'm not sure I remember the specific plays you're referencing but a ref can't call over the back just because a guy is boxed out and still out jumps the man for the ball.

I understand, but my point is that, athletic guys can make over the back contact "look better" because they get higher and appear to just be outleaping the opposition. Go watch any Heat game this year and watch any time Wade, Lebron or Bosh go for a rebound. They launch themselves toward the guy trying to box them out, sky over them for the board and the other player either falls forward or is thrown forward from the force of the contact.

 

[Miller]

I'm not sure I remember the specific plays you're referencing but a ref can't call over the back just because a guy is boxed out and still out jumps the man for the ball.

Over the back, like most calls, is based on contact, not positioning. As long as you don't dislodge the man boxing you out to get the ball, you are free to jump and snatch the ball wherever it is.

Like I said, I don't remember the exact plays you're talking about but there is some truth to an athletic guy not being called for over the back if they are just out jumping the man attempting to box them out.

I'm not blaming the refs at all here. I think the Mavs screwed themselves on allowing the offensive rebounds and on missing open looks. But as for the over the back....I didn't see over the back as much as Dirk just getting shoved in the back and thus under the basket where he couldn't grab a rebound. Saw it 2-3 times and he was giving it to the ref. On a ref note that will never change...LeBron travels almost every trip down the court...even on fakes. I know it has been around for decades...giving stars the extra step.. but do guys really get to run with the ball now?

 

[bayeslife]

Pretty much why im not worried.

Plus I know we have a superior bench.

But if they want to not show up and choke this series away even though we have a better team than fine let them.

If they just play Mavs basketball it should be over in 6.

LOL
:laugh2:

 

[WoodysGirl]

I didn't know Kevin McHale was our new coach. didn't see that one coming, and didn't really want to

I hate the hire....

I hate the GM, but at least the team is young. Hope, right?

 

[CowboyDan]

Mavs in 6.
Heat will win game 1 though and start the panic in the Metroplex.

Just a reminder.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I'm not sure I remember the specific plays you're referencing but a ref can't call over the back just because a guy is boxed out and still out jumps the man for the ball.

Over the back, like most calls, is based on contact, not positioning. As long as you don't dislodge the man boxing you out to get the ball, you are free to jump and snatch the ball wherever it is.

Like I said, I don't remember the exact plays you're talking about but there is some truth to an athletic guy not being called for over the back if they are just out jumping the man attempting to box them out.

That's an awesome breakdown of "over the back" scenario.

There's no official "over the back" rule. It's simply a push in lower levels or maybe "Loose ball" in NBA rules. I'm not sure of NBA call.

Either way, you pretty much nailed it. Refs can't penalize a guy for simply outjumping the competition. A player might've been properly boxed out, but if the guy being boxed out simply outleaps the other guy for the rebound, then there's no foul. A foul should be called if the guy dislodges another guy out of position to get the ball.

On a side note... I predicted Heat over Mavs just before the conference finals started. So I'm sticking with that. It could go 4, 5, 6, or 7.. I think the Heat take it.

 

[zrinkill]

I hate the hire....

I hate the GM, but at least the team is young. Hope, right?

Gonna miss Rudy

 

[WoodysGirl]

Gonna miss Rudy

At this point, I miss Carroll Dawson, the GM. At least I understood his player acquisitions. I liked Rick Adelman, hated Van Gundy, but I like Van Gundy alot more than McHale.

 

[JBS]

Sooner or later you guys will realize that Dallas is outmatched in this series..This is Batman versus Superman, Spiderman, and Iron man. It's a shame for Dirk more than anything but that's the situation he is in..The bad news is that the way the NBA is structured, the Miami Heat will only get better next year..Unless of course things change under a new CBA.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Funny thing is, I wasn't a fan in 2006. My hatred of the NBA was actually born out of a seed planeted in the 2002 WCF between the Lakers and Kings. (two teams I have zero love for) The NBA robbed the Kings of a trip to the NBA finals because they couldn't allow the finals to have Chris Webber and Vlade Divac instead of the NBA's biggest superstars at the time in Kobe and Shaq. The Kings had the Lakers beaten until the NBA decided that wasn't acceptable.

That is where it was born and by 2005 my NBA fandom was already dead. The superstar players getting phantom foul calls and non-superstar players getting blatantly robbed. (both being called or not getting calls against superstars)

Yep, that Lakers-Kings game was one of the all-time-classics... I remember Divac afterwards saying something to the effect of, "Why'd they even make us go the hassle of getting on the plane to fly to this game if it was going to be like this." And he was right.

All this cynicism is what the NBA and Stern deserve with the way they let (or encouraged) such horrible officiating to develop. It started with the Star System and Jordan getting every call, and has only gotten muddier since.

But like last night, when you could call a foul on virtually every possession one way or another, it's normal for players and fans to complain and wonder what is going on.

 

[JBS]

Dirk NoRingSki lol...it's trending

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm not sure I remember the specific plays you're referencing but a ref can't call over the back just because a guy is boxed out and still out jumps the man for the ball.

Over the back, like most calls, is based on contact, not positioning. As long as you don't dislodge the man boxing you out to get the ball, you are free to jump and snatch the ball wherever it is.

Like I said, I don't remember the exact plays you're talking about but there is some truth to an athletic guy not being called for over the back if they are just out jumping the man attempting to box them out.

I think this is where proper positioning, footwork and understanding how to rebound comes in. From a very early age, you are taught not to box your man too far under the basket. If you check your guy correctly, then he has to come over the back for the rebound. I mean, I know this is basically one of those all good in theory kind of statements but it's true. If you check your man correctly, the ball is yours and the opposing player has to foul you to get the ball.

 

[CATCH17]

Sooner or later you guys will realize that Dallas is outmatched in this series..This is Batman versus Superman, Spiderman, and Iron man. It's a shame for Dirk more than anything but that's the situation he is in..The bad news is that the way the NBA is structured, the Miami Heat will only get better next year..Unless of course things change under a new CBA.

Sorry but it's not 3-1.

If the Mavs bench alone plays up to their ability this series could change real quick.

 

[DFWJC]

Dallas in 7.

That would be a game 7 win at Miami...sweet.

Miami
Dallas
Dallas
Miami
Dallas
Miami
Dallas

So far so good!

Go Mavs