Maybe Its A Culture Problem, Not Neccessarily Playcalling

[CouchCoach]

You have the same option.............. you can always claim to be right about Garrett because you can always blame Jones as the problem. So you really are not much different.

And in reality, I've already admitted that Jones is part of the problem. He's a meddler and made poor decisions as head of player acquisition. I mean how many times have you read me say that Jones totally screwed the pooch at DE this offseason? How can he come out and say pass rush and DE were an issue after last season and then the plan is to head into August camp with only one proven DE on the roster? But the Cowboys problems go beyond just a meddlesome owner. The coach is a problem too. It's not an either or situation.

There is no mischaracterization of what you have said here. You think Garrett is a good coach and he's hindered by Jones. You seem to now have doubled down on that suggesting that even if he fails here, you'll still think he was a very good coach who just had a bad situation.

PS - What evidence is there that he's a good coach? I mean real evidence. Not something like, "He works well with the scouting department".

What evidence is there that Booger is a good GM? I am not a Garrett guy but any guy that Booger would hire that would take the job would fail. The fault is in the design.

 

[Sydla]

The answer is simple and it's not the HC as it wasn't with Wade. I'll be the first to say Wade's not a good HC but he was better than he showed here. And it's perplexing because the players really liked him, but they did not respect him in the position. He knew this and asked his boss if he could increase fines and what was he told? Not only no, but some players will have "media passes" and excused for showing up late for team meetings.

What was Garrett's first edict when he took over? Coats and ties, let's look professional. Who broke that rule the first chance he had and what happened to Barber?

All the other teams have the culture established by the HC and the team usually reflects that. Remember that FA DB we had for a short while mentioning that team meetings were held up because Booger & Son were running late?

This team is a cluster beginning at the top and it just filters down and it all centers around "good enough is good enough" and excuses. Any success we'll have, under these circumstances, will be difficult and while I am not a Garrett guy, he's from a football family, played for Johnson, Fassel and coached for Saban and Parcells. Anything in that background suggest wus to anyone about the man?

He's getting paid 6M a year to do a job and the job is doing what his boss wants him to do. And since his boss is a meddler, he can't really hold his employee accountable, can he?

Yes he can hold him accountable. Because in the end, while Jerry may meddle with his roster, and Jerry may meddle with some of his stances on discipline, it doesn't appear Jerry is in the coaches meetings slamming his fist on the table demanding that this be the game plan for the next game. Nor does he have a head set on during games overruling Garrett/Linehan on what to call. I have little doubt he makes suggestions if he feels his million dollar investment player isn't being used right, he will let the coaches now, but at the end of the day, what goes on for 3.5 hours on Sunday afternoon, is in the complete control of the coaching staff.

So when the team looks sloppy. Or when the team commits a lot of penalties. Or when the team looks unprepared. Or when the team looks like they got outcoached.................. that's on the coaches. Trying to blame Jerry for things that happen on the field during a game is a real stretch IMO. It wasn't Jerry that demanded Marinelli come out in nickel for like 3 straight plays late in the game and watch the Giants run it down our throats.

 

[Sydla]

What evidence is there that Booger is a good GM? I am not a Garrett guy but any guy that Booger would hire that would take the job would fail. The fault is in the design.

I've never said he's a quality GM. So you are trying to refute a point I never made. I think he's built a flawed roster.

But even in the flaws, you can see when a team is well coached and when a team is not. And while the roster building isn't great, neither is the coaching. So I tend to doubt that Garrett is actually a good coach held back by the circumstances of his employment. I think he's a mediocre coach who isn't good enough to overcome some of the shortfalls that come with this particular job.

 

[Dodger12]

What evidence is there that Booger is a good GM? I am not a Garrett guy but any guy that Booger would hire that would take the job would fail. The fault is in the design.

You obviously don't understand that we're run like most NFL franchises.

 

[Dodger12]

But even in the flaws, you can see when a team is well coached and when a team is not. And while the roster building isn't great, neither is the coaching. So I tend to doubt that Garrett is actually a good coach held back by the circumstances of his employment. I think he's a mediocre coach who isn't good enough to overcome some of the shortfalls that come with this particular job.

Well said Sydla......I wish I could give it more likes......

 

[RS12]

I am going to wear out my like button in this thread. Passing them out like candy.

 

[RS12]

Just to follow up....I don't know if Garrett's a great guy but do you think guys like Wade, Callahan or Rob Ryan think Garrett is a great guy? I don't. Garrett is a yes man, plain and simple.

I'd give this 100 likes if possible. So many saving me all kinds of keystrokes. He is Smithers to Monte Burns come alve.

 

[RS12]

I have said this before but was shot down: I do think that last year when the team went one and eleven with trash at QB, Jerry said he couldnt believe they could only win one game with a backup QB. Meaning he came to the realization this coaching staff left a lot to be desired. I think the only reason he hasnt made a change is because he thinks they are close to winning (I dont) and he doesnt want to change coaches and systems this late in Romo's career. (Idont agree with this philosophy either). I think if the team goes 5 and 11 but Dak shows enough to be the future starter, Gilligan gets photo shopped from the family photo. It will all be for naught if he brings another weak, yes man coach though.

 

[Plankton]

But that's because of the owner. If the problem is the owner, and not the coach, why all the talk about replacing the coach? Or do you think there's a coach out there who could be hired who's going to have more success under Jerry?

There's a coach out there who would have more success. There always is.

The problem is, Jones would never hire that person. The reason? Such a coach would have options elsewhere, and wouldn't have to cede his authority to the ego of a lunatic.

 

[yimyammer]

That's the danger. At some point he loses his effect on the players. And we probably are getting close to a time when that happens. I would like to see him pull out a small can of whoop-*** this week somehow. Elevating Butler. Or pulling Collins in favor of Leary after a holding call or something. I posted the link above about Arians calling players out in the press. Jason has to be careful that he doesn't do anything out of character that comes off as phony, but he needs to do something to kick these guys into gear a bit emotionally. He's done it in the past a little bit. Benching Murray, or trusting them to go for it on 4th down when it's not really necessary. The team needs a vote of confidence from his head coach and everybody needs a little more skin in the game somehow.

The obvious, seemingly insurmountable wildcard (imho & as has been stressed throughout this thread) is jeri.

I bring him up yet again because I dont know if we are seeing Garrett coach the way he would without jeri in the mix (not that it would guarantee success). I question whether Garrett has the authority to even bring down the hammer that many would like to see used. After watching the stunts Hardy pulled last season, culminating in the rumored locker room tirade attacking Garrett yet Hardy was allowed to remain on the roster? Given the contract they had with him coupled with the reality that the season was lost, this was a prime opportunity for the head coach to demonstrate his authority and cut Hardy asap. Yet, Hardy was allowed to finish out the year, when at the very least, the Cowboys could have picked up some cap space in addition to the underlying message sent by getting rid of him prior to season end and preferably ASAP after the locker room incident (assuming its true).

I realize many think this was just another example of Garrett being spineless and perhaps it was. But imo, it felt like a decision forced upon him from on high by on over optimistic (& control freak) jeri still clinging to the ridiculous longshot of the season being saved and Hardy being instrumental to that miracle scenario. I'm admittedly speculating but that situation is extremely jacked up in my opinion and is an example of how I believe Garrett is undermined (like any new coach would continue to be undermined).

As far as Garrett goes, it appears the evidence is mounting to support the notion he is:

1. incredibly conservative, to the point of it being detrimental to the team
2. is rigid to the point of being an obstacle to success
3. this rigidity appears to be demonstrated in a lack of creativity on offense & defense
4. While his pedigree looks good on paper, all those years in and around football lacked something pretty important in my opinion, that being in the trenches for years as a coach on all levels where he learns the touch and feel of a game and how to marry play calling to the situation at hand and the mindset of the team or a given player in various moments throughout a game or season.

I'm not saying the above 4 items are locked in stone as truth, I'm merely spitballing about how I perceive things and regardless of whether I've identified his deficiencies accurately, his deficiencies seem to be a growing concern in many places which you would think at some point won’t bode well for his future here.

If I may continue, Garrett strikes me as book smart and professor-like.

Which reminds me of the phrase: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach” (see #4 above)

Oddly this could be a pro and a con for Garrett.

A “pro" in that I hoped he could attempt to intellectually exhort, teach and/or cajole jeri into understanding the importance of various things that matter in a winning organization. (there does appear to be some changes in this respect that seem to have emanated from Garrett but I can’t say for certain due to the deliberately obfuscated structure jeri employs).

The "con" could be overcome (providing he’s not too rigid or stubborn) by hiring coaches with experience to make up for his inexperience.

Basically making Garrett a go between, walk around coach in the hope he could get jeri to stand down on some of his outlandish BS but that appears to be hit and miss and thus far, appears to be too daunting for any coach to overcome. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like this might be close to why you advocate sticking with Garrett (although you may consider him a better x & o coach than I do)

On a potentially positive note, Jeri is sounding crazier than I've ever heard him so that might bode well in terms of people (& players) not taking him seriously and instead viewing him as the crazy family member everyone has to put up with on holidays.

Its just a bummer he cant give more than lip service to his quote he has prominently displayed at The Star:

“I just want to say this. There is no substitute for winning. I know that’s a cliche but we must win, we will win, win is the name of the game”

(bolded part is on the walls of The Star)

I dont think its out of line to suggest they have done nothing recently but give lip service to this notion based on the actions and results of the last 20+ years. I’m not so sure jeri wouldn’t now replace the word “win” with “stajum” in his statement. That would be kind of funny actually:

I just want to say this. There is no substitute for stajum. I know that’s a cliche but we must stajum, we will stajum, stajum(s) is the name of the game”

 

[visionary]

So in other words, you'll likely never realize what an average head coach Garrett is. You will always have the cover that it's Jerry holding him back.

What's interesting to me is that if Jerry is such a problem and he's the real issue as to why this team doesn't win more, I would then assume that other coaches he's held back but were good coaches would have gone on to have success elsewhere. And yet, Gailey was a flame out in Buffalo as a head coach and Campo and Phillips couldn't get another head coaching gig because the market deemed them to be unworthy.

Maybe the problem isn't that Jones meddles too much and holds his head coaches back. Maybe the problem is that Jerry just sucks at hiring head coaches.

It's not that he sucks at hiring coaches
He hires 'yes-men' and Garrett is the latest example of this.

People like @Idgit will never acknowledge that because their football acumen and Internet football self worth (as laughable as that might be) is tied to their 'early recognition' of Garretts greatness. They have been touting Garrett as the next great HC and telling everyone else how blind they are that they are unable to see that greatness. Garrett could go 0-16 and these guys will find a 'reason' other than Garrett so it is useless to get into a discussion or argument with them about it because they will look reason and fact in the face and pretend they don't exist

 

[yimyammer]

Remember that FA DB we had for a short while mentioning that team meetings were held up because Booger & Son were running late?

I don't, what are you referring to here amigo?

 

[Idgit]

It's not that he sucks at hiring coaches
He hires 'yes-men' and Garrett is the latest example of this.

People like @Idgit will never acknowledge that because their football acumen and Internet football self worth (as laughable as that might be) is tied to their 'early recognition' of Garretts greatness. They have been touting Garrett as the next great HC and telling everyone else how blind they are that they are unable to see that greatness. Garrett could go 0-16 and these guys will find a 'reason' other than Garrett so it is useless to get into a discussion or argument with them about it because they will look reason and fact in the face and pretend they don't exist

Oh my. Your assessment of my personality is about as consistently good as your take on football, visionary. Which is saying something.

We're dudes (some dudes, and some chicks), talking Cowboys football. Anonymously. On the internet. Don't fool yourself into thinking there's social cache here for being right about something. This is about as dorky as it gets for North American adults. We're a step above LARPing over here.

I'd invite you to wade in with some content at some point if you care to. Take a stand on something football-related and try to back it up. I know you prefer to take pot-shots at me and at other posters from the sidelines, but it's better if you get in the game a little bit. Bobble some catches, overthrow some receivers. Lighten up and try to enjoy yourself.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Why do you think the players are coddled? Because you've seen other fans say it? And how are you measuring coddling relative to all the other teams?

As I said, I'd like to see snaps taken away from players who make obvious mental mistakes, but I don't think we're all that different from most other NFL teams in that regard. It's an easy criticism to just say, though because it's hard to measure or to disprove.

Your statement about them having some sort of fear of making mistakes is what I'd like to see proof of. Unless you are talking about scrubs who were cut for not wearing suits. I guess the suggestion is JG is all smiles and an oh golly gee they try hard guy in public but a tyrant behind closed doors. I think Garrett knows he's lucky to have a job and built in excuses every season.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

But that's because of the owner. If the problem is the owner, and not the coach, why all the talk about replacing the coach? Or do you think there's a coach out there who could be hired who's going to have more success under Jerry?

Doesn't that make Garrett a weak coach?

 

[CouchCoach]

You obviously don't understand that we're run like most NFL franchises.

We are? How is that? Other franchises have football people doing their football things.

 

[Sydla]

To further the point, I think some of the best coaches in the NFL right now are obviously Belicheck, Carroll, Ariens, Tomlin.

To believe what some have opined here, that Jones makes it difficult, almost impossible for Garrett to coach here, my question would be if Bill Belicheck decided he wanted one more challenge in life and that is trying to coach the Cowboys to a SB, would he turn into a .500 coach here in Dallas because of Jones? Would Carroll?

 

[CouchCoach]

I don't, what are you referring to here amigo?

He wasn't here for a full season and he ended up with another ball club and he was relaying how different the Cowboys were from others he'd been on and told about meetings being held up until Booger & Son could be there. I do not recall his name but I'm pretty sure he was a DB.

 

[CouchCoach]

I've never said he's a quality GM. So you are trying to refute a point I never made. I think he's built a flawed roster.

But even in the flaws, you can see when a team is well coached and when a team is not. And while the roster building isn't great, neither is the coaching. So I tend to doubt that Garrett is actually a good coach held back by the circumstances of his employment. I think he's a mediocre coach who isn't good enough to overcome some of the shortfalls that come with this particular job.

Refuting points not made is my specialty. It's the other ones that I struggle with.

There is no way Booger is going to hire a strong coach that might pull some of the attention away from him. He holds court, not press conferences, with his son and adopted coach hanging on every word or trying to figure out what he just said so they can agree with it.

 

[Dodger12]

We are? How is that? Other franchises have football people doing their football things.

Because the owner of every NFL team makes the final call. Do you think Bellichick or Elway could sign off on a 100 million dollar contract? The owner does; it's his money. It's the same way here. You're just hung up on titles......