Maybe Its A Culture Problem, Not Neccessarily Playcalling

[Dodger12]

I absolve all blame for any coach here under Jerry. I can not evaluate a coach if he's in a no win situation. An owner who acts as his own GM with his son as the top assistant and won't even allow his coach authority over his own staff and locker room. That's a no win situation for any coach. People don't want to hear it but it's true. So as easy as it is to blame Garrett since he can actually be replaced I know better. Garrett could suck regardless of where he is but I don't know that. What I do know is no coach on planet Earth would win here with the owner comfortable. It's just not happening. That's the only reason I want Garrett gone. The small hope that we'll have another Parcells hire and things will change for the better.

Who's the best head coach in the league? Bill Belichick? Imagine little Bill coming to Dallas and being told - yeah, you're the head coach...but my son and I are gonna pick your players and your staff, I'm gonna sit in on staff meetings during the week, keep that locker room door open too..we go in there...I'll do most of the media and be the voice of the team.....oh, and I'm always available to any of your players should they have any issue with what you're doing.

This is the cancerous culture in Dallas and why that plane sat on the tarmac for hours in December 2002 while Bill Parcells negotiated with a mad man.

If you can't evaluate a coach by how he handles game day decisions or the game plans he puts together, then I can't help you. We all agree Jerry is the main issue. I certainly don't think we have talent to win the SB but I think we're more talented then our past records have indicated. But I've seen enough clock management gaffes and poor gameday decisions that just reinforces how truly awful he is. We have another thread which breaks down Dez' patterns and the guy ran 21 go routes and was used primarily as a decoy to open the middle for Witten and the midget. You use a #5 on a RB and who do you throw the screen to on two occasions that I can remember? Witten, the slowest guy on the receiving corp. Bring in multiple TE's to run the offense and you don't incorporate those guys either. I could go on and on with Garret. I mean, it's just mind numbing some of the things we've seen Garrett do and we're still undecided if he's a good HC?

And as to your second point with BB and Jerry meddling, Garrett signed the extension. It's his reputation on the line.

 

[Risen Star]

If you can't evaluate a coach by how he handles game day decisions or the game plans he puts together, then I can't help you. We all agree Jerry is the main issue. I certainly don't think we have talent to win the SB but I think we're more talented then our past records have indicated. But I've seen enough clock management gaffes and poor gameday decisions that just reinforces how truly awful he is. We have another thread which breaks down Dez' patterns and the guy ran 21 go routes and was used primarily as a decoy to open the middle for Witten and the midget. You use a #5 on a RB and who do you throw the screen to on two occasions that I can remember? Witten, the slowest guy on the receiving corp. Bring in multiple TE's to run the offense and you don't incorporate those guys either. I could go on and on with Garret. I mean, it's just mind numbing some of the things we've seen Garrett do and we're still undecided if he's a good HC?

And as to your second point with BB and Jerry meddling, Garrett signed the extension. It's his reputation on the line.

That's interesting. So you have an issue with the offensive play calling and blame Jason Garrett. Now what makes you think Garrett had anything to do with that play calling? He's not the offensive coordinator and, right back to where I started, he doesn't even have the power to hire his own. Yet you blame Garrett. Why? Because you're a frustrated fan and Garrett is the highest up you can go of the replaceables.

Sure he signed the extension. What does that mean? That all of a sudden everything's sane in Dallas and a head coach should thrive? He wants to coach the Cowboys. He wants to win here. It doesn't change the fact his owner puts him in an environment where winning, at least consistently, is an impossibility.

 

[Sydla]

That's interesting. So you have an issue with the offensive play calling and blame Jason Garrett. Now what makes you think Garrett had anything to do with that play calling? He's not the offensive coordinator and, right back to where I started, he doesn't even have the power to hire his own. Yet you blame Garrett. Why? Because you're a frustrated fan and Garrett is the highest up you can go of the replaceables.

Sure he signed the extension. What does that mean? That all of a sudden everything's sane in Dallas and a head coach should thrive? He wants to coach the Cowboys. He wants to win here. It doesn't change the fact his owner puts him in an environment where winning, at least consistently, is an impossibility.

He's the head coach. If he doesn't like the game plan or he doesn't like the play calling, he can walk into Linehan's office and tell him what he wants. So whatever Linehan is doing, it seems Garrett is on board with it.

Unless you are telling us that Garrett has no say at all in the game plans and doesn't have the power to tell Linehan what he wants. The only person that can change the game plan is Jerry apparently.

Man, Jerry sure wasted a ton of money on a powerless head coach. That's not a good return on that investment.

 

[Sarek]

I argued culture years back. I realized its not the HC at fault, it's mostly the era we live in.

 

[WillieBeamen]

He's the head coach. If he doesn't like the game plan or he doesn't like the play calling, he can walk into Linehan's office and tell him what he wants. So whatever Linehan is doing, it seems Garrett is on board with it.

Unless you are telling us that Garrett has no say at all in the game plans and doesn't have the power to tell Linehan what he wants. The only person that can change the game plan is Jerry apparently.

Man, Jerry sure wasted a ton of money on a powerless head coach. That's not a good return on that investment.

This. The play calling has been an issue for years, long before Linehan was around. And let's not get started on how he cant win with a backup QB

 

[Sydla]

The Cowboys issues are multi-layered. They have an owner/GM who thinks he knows more about football than actual football people. And then he saddles himself with a mediocre coach who has no chance of being able to overcome some of the shorthanded crap he gets from the owner/GM.

Laying this solely at the feet of one or the other is wrong. They both have their hands in the futility that is the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[Dodger12]

That's interesting. So you have an issue with the offensive play calling and blame Jason Garrett. Now what makes you think Garrett had anything to do with that play calling? He's not the offensive coordinator and, right back to where I started, he doesn't even have the power to hire his own. Yet you blame Garrett. Why? Because you're a frustrated fan and Garrett is the highest up you can go of the replaceables.

Sure he signed the extension. What does that mean? That all of a sudden everything's sane in Dallas and a head coach should thrive? He wants to coach the Cowboys. He wants to win here. It doesn't change the fact his owner puts him in an environment where winning, at least consistently, is an impossibility.

Please. Linehan is Garrett's guy and you absolutely know that. If I'm to believe what you're saying, then Garrett has no input into developing the game plan whatsoever during the week. I don't buy that for a second. Garrett's been here 10 years. This is his tired, plodding, stale and unimaginative offense that requires a magician at QB who needs improvises to be successful. Jerry himself has commented on Garrett and the conservative offense. I despise Jerry as much as the next guy. But Garrett doesn't get a pass just because I dislike the GM.

 

[Dodger12]

He's the head coach. If he doesn't like the game plan or he doesn't like the play calling, he can walk into Linehan's office and tell him what he wants. So whatever Linehan is doing, it seems Garrett is on board with it.

Unless you are telling us that Garrett has no say at all in the game plans and doesn't have the power to tell Linehan what he wants. The only person that can change the game plan is Jerry apparently.

Man, Jerry sure wasted a ton of money on a powerless head coach. That's not a good return on that investment.

And Jerry must truly be satisfied with 100 million dollar WR having 1 catch for 8 yards to boot. And he's ignored way too often in this game plan. Jerry himself stated after drafting Escobar that the coaching staff better use him. And Escobar has been nothing short of an underutilized dud. And lets not forget the blown second leads of historic proportions because the red dolt gets pass happy. And we can go on and on. I'm not even going to entertain the idea that Garrett has no input during the week in formulating a game plan and watching film.

 

[Risen Star]

Please. Linehan is Garrett's guy and you absolutely know that. If I'm to believe what you're saying, then Garrett has no input into developing the game plan whatsoever during the week. I don't buy that for a second. Garrett's been here 10 years. This is his tired, plodding, stale and unimaginative offense that requires a magician at QB who needs improvises to be successful. Jerry himself has commented on Garrett and the conservative offense. I despise Jerry as much as the next guy. But Garrett doesn't get a pass just because I dislike the GM.

Wait. Garrett's offense sucks so much and requires a magician at QB that a 4th round rookie came in here and lit up the preseason with it? Are you saying when Romo goes down and guys like Weeden, Cassell and Moore don't excel that it proves Garrett's offense is horrific?

Are we having a real conversation right now?

I don't give anyone a pass because I dislike the GM. I give all coaches, and I mean A.L.L., a pass when they have to work under Jerry's heavy hand and flawed football operations. If you're set up to fail and you fail that doesn't reflect on you.

What's the problem? That I don't join you in the utterly worthless waste of time that is blaming Jason Garrett for the same issues we've had for 20 years?

 

[plasticman]

Since 1989 when thr Jones's took over, the Cowboys are tied for 4th place in total number of games suspended. Carolina is #1 followed by a tie between the Browns and Cardinals. The least suspended team is the Eagles followed by the Saints.

When it comes to strictly drug suspensions, the Cowboys have the 3rd most behind the Panthers and Cardinals. The Saints had the least drug suspensions.

Some of the highlights are Pacman Jones in a fight with his bodyguard, Leon Lett's 24 total games suspended due to drug violations, and, of course, the back to back suspensions of Rolando McClain.

Drug suspensions are just as responsible for losing last Sunday. I have to believe that if the Cowboys had their starting MLB and both starting DE's, that would have been more than enough to change a 1 point loss.

 

[Beast_from_East]

No offense taken, because the analogy is fine. Garrett can't be the mechanic because the mechanic is capable of fixing the problem so that leaves no analog for Jerry Jones, which is what's really wrong with the car.

You put a system in place that has the best shot of working around Jerry Jones. That's the only thing you can do. What you're doing is looking for a solution to gravity. There is no solution to it. You need to work with it and around it, those are your options. You seem to think there's a guy out there who's going to do a better job of this than Jason will. I don't. As I said before, this team is actually close. It needs a tweak of some sort and not a ground-up overhaul. A ground-up overhaul gets you the illusion of motion for a few seasons, and then back in the same circumstance your'e in now. If we're ever going to solve the problem, do it now when you've got a stable staff in place and a guy who's a moderating influence on the egomaniac running the show. If we're not going to solve it, let's get real about it and stop pretending the issue is something it isn't.

I think the issue is Idgit is that you don't think Garrett is part of the problem and he is basically a victim of circumstances created by Jerry. So your solution does not involve replacing Garrett since you do not blame Garrett for any lack of success. So it really doesn't matter how many seasons Garrett goes without making the playoffs, its not his fault is what you are saying.

What is strange is that Wade and all the other coaches before him didn't get the same treatment. If its all Jerry's fault and the head coach is blameless, then why was it necessary to replace Wade and the other coaches before him?

And as far as results go, Wade is still ahead of Garrett in accomplishments. Wade won 2 division titles and a playoff game over a period of 3 and a half years. Garrett is going on 6 and a half seasons and has just one division title and one playoff win. So Garrett has been here twice as long as Wade, yet still has not accomplished what Wade accomplished.

So I ask again, why is Garrett exempt from responsibility for the team's performance when other coaches (who had more success than Garrett in a shorter time frame) didn't get the benefit of the doubt? And if your answer is that Garrett works better with Jerry than all those other coaches, then why is that not reflected on the scoreboard over his 6 and half year tenure?

 

[DejectedFan1996]

it appears the issue is what its been for years and Jimmy Johnson summarized it succinctly:



jeri loves to have a good time and revel in a nonstop party atmosphere

who gets scared at a party?

I love that quote by Jimmy. It's so damn true

 

[Beast_from_East]

You are all over the map.

In one breath you claim Jerry has set up a flawed system and only Garrett can apparently make it work and we should accept that this might be the best we can do given the situation. But then in another breath you say we are really close and only need a tweak to be really good. Well if we are "close" how can the system be as dysfunctional as you claim?

How much time? He's in Year 6 now. How long does it take for a coach that's supposed to be high quality to be able to tick off all the boxes?

Congrats, you have just discovered what is known as the "Garrett Paradox".

His supporters claim that Jerry has created such a dysfunctional atmosphere and team structure that no head coach would be able to succeed. That is why Garrett and his poor coaching record cannot be analyzed or compared to other coaches in the NFL who have been fired for similar results over this same time frame. The other coaches are not working under the circumstances created by Jerry that is unique to Dallas and doesn't exist anywhere else in the league.

However, in the next breath they tell you that the team is very close to getting over the hump and that Garrett and Garrett alone is the only guy that can accomplish this so we just have to stay the course.

Logically speaking, this is a contradiction of circumstance. If Jerry has created such a dysfunctional atmosphere and culture that no head coach can succeed and therefore Garrett is not responsible for his lack of success over the past 6 seasons, then how can the team be close to getting over the hump with Garrett in charge if the atmosphere stays the same (meaning Jerry continues to be GM)?

 

[Beast_from_East]

I'm not all over the map. You're trying to read things into what I"m saying that aren't there and, apparently, confusing yourself in the process.

I think Jerry poses a very difficult problem for Dallas Cowboys coaches. I don't think the Jimmy route is open to us anymore. We've got a guy who can work within that system, that the players, coaches, scouts and ownership all appreciate and respect. He simplifies a lot of the moving parts around him and mitigates the distractions really effectively. And I do think we're close to putting it all together.

I guess my question is why is it a stretch for you to imagine a problem that's really tough to solve where, despite the dysfunction in how we've gone about addressing it, we've still managed to get close? The idea that people can overcome limitations to eventually get a solution isn't exactly earth-shattering.

Overcome limitations?

Garrett has been head coach for 6 and a half seasons Idgit, how long exactly does it take for him to overcome limitations?

Just curious how many other NFL teams operate like this that a head coach can miss the playoffs virtually every season and not be mentioned as a possible problem?

And if he isn't the problem, he apparently isn't part of the solution either since he has been on the job almost 7 years and has basically nothing of consequence to show for it, other than a .500 career coaching record. Or is that not his fault either?

 

[AsthmaField]

Good Grief. Dak is a rookie QB who started the first game of the season and the team lost by one point.

We know why the team lost last year with those loser QB's... maybe be should let Dak get more than one game into his NFL career before we categorize him with Weeden and Cassell and say the team can't win with him.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I'll ask again. Is there a time frame on when Garrett has to get this thing past the finish line? You said we need to give him time to see if he can check off all the boxes. It's now Year 6. At what point should he have checked off all or most of the boxes? If we go 7-9 this year, 8-8 next year is that enough? Or does he need more time? How many playoff runs does he need in say an 8 year tenure to be worthy of keeping his job? One in 8 years? Three in 8 years?

Garrett's supporters will avoid this question like the plague bro, I have yet to see one single poster that supports Garrett and thinks he needs more time give a concrete time table on "when enough is enough".

They give generalities like "we are close" but never anything concrete or a line in the sand.

 

[BAT]

Of course part of the problem is culture and accountability. If the HC can continue to underachieve without repercussions (hell, even get rewarded with an extension) why should anyone fear for their job?

Garrett has shown that the only way you lose your spot is if you aren't RKG enough (TO, Pat, Dwayne Harris, Hardy) or if you have the cajones to defy Ginger's dress code. Don't wear a coat and tie to away games and Jason will bring down the wrath of heaven on your soul.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Something to consider.
The raiders at one time were a very good team even with Uncle Al.
Then that went to shreds and Uncle Al still ran things while the team still had troubles.

Uncle Al is out of the way.
Now the Dutch paint boy aka Tommy Boy is in charge but
He has let others assemble the team.

Notice that the Raiders are doing a lot better drafting and starting to do better on the field.

Just something to consider.

I am not saying...just saying
Love,
Crazy haired alien guy

That is why I will not and cannot accept the notion from Garrett's supporters that "Garrett is the best we got and if the best he can do is .500 most seasons, just accept it because he is not in any way part of the problem".

I totally reject that attitude by his supporters

 

[Dodger12]

What's the problem? That I don't join you in the utterly worthless waste of time that is blaming Jason Garrett for the same issues we've had for 20 years?

Don't change the subject or take the discussion elsewhere RS. I never blamed Garrett for the state of the team or the issues this team has had 20 plus years. But I will blame the HC for decisions made on game day.

Wait. Garrett's offense sucks so much and requires a magician at QB that a 4th round rookie came in here and lit up the preseason with it? Are you saying when Romo goes down and guys like Weeden, Cassell and Moore don't excel that it proves Garrett's offense is horrific?

And we saw nothing of what we saw in pre-season with Prescott. No back shoulder throws. No 10 (plus) yard passes between the numbers in the middle of the field (actually one). No screens to the RB but 2 to Witten. This goes directly do game planning. You're 4th round QB showed that he could make the throws and yet you turn him into a conservative bus driver basically asking your horrific defense to win the game.

I don't give anyone a pass because I dislike the GM. I give all coaches, and I mean A.L.L., a pass when they have to work under Jerry's heavy hand and flawed football operations. If you're set up to fail and you fail that doesn't reflect on you.

I didn't know Jerry put a gun to his head to accept the job. Garrett knew what he was getting into and if he was set up to fail, then he should have taken the Baltimore job. But I guess you believe Garrett took the job with the understanding that he would have no input with the game planning. That's just dumb.

Coaches still coach. They still have to make up a game plan and put their playmakers in a position to succeed. They should know the basic rules of clock management. They should have an understanding of how to win a game with a commanding lead in the second half; games that are won almost 100% of the time. His collapses and his coaching decisions that had a direct hand in those collapses have been epic and may never again be seen in my lifetime. That reflects on the HC.

 

[Risen Star]

Now I know this Dodger guy is yet another worthless Joe Fan blaming a long line of failed head coaches.

I guess it makes those people feel better about the situation.