McNabb getting ripped in Philly

[TellerMorrow34]

The day Andy Reid, McNabb, and David Akers aren't Eagles I will do a dance.

If they could all leave on the same day that would be one of the most wonderful days ever.

 

[Aikbach]

Let Philly have a taste of our QB roster prior to Tony. That will cure all.

They'll be tasting it by 2011.

 

[burmafrd]

If you are not performing as you were you get dropped. injury sympathy or not. P Manning and Brees and Rivers are right now in a class by themselves. Then you have Rothsburger, Romo, Carson Palmer, Favre, Warner, Rodgers, Brady in no particular order. Thats the top 10.

 

[LOBO7]

He is a very good quarterback. But I consider only three quarterbacks elite in this league - Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger.

Big Ben is good at avoiding a sack and finding a way to win. Not an elite QB
in the skills area though. Brady, Drew and Peyton= elite. Romo,Rivers and Rodgers are knocking on the door. McNabb needs a Superbowl , maybe.

 

[tyke1doe]

The Cardinal defense was the worst defense in Super bowl history so I'm afraid i simply don't buy it.

So the standard is that if the defense is the worst in Super Bowl history, then a pressure drive in the biggest game of one's life on a stage with millions of people watching and a drive that will define one's legacy doesn't count?


So if the Cowboys play the Bengals in the Super Bowl and win, will you be as accommodating to anyone who labels Romo less than elite because he leads a Super Bowl-winning drive?

Don't be ridiculous.

That is the same defense that slowpoke Marion Barber torched for 75 yards on a screen.

You mean the same defense that shut down the Falcons, Panthers and Eagles - keeping their score less than Arizona's?

And you do know you're arguing against the Cowboys defense, the same defense that let Brandon Jacobs run 70-plus yards for a TD on a screen play.

I'm sure you'll be just fine if someone calls our defense overrated because we allowed a big play.

Look, I know you guys don't like it, but Big Ben is an elite quarterback. He has the rings to prove it, and he is constantly gives his team a chance to win even when its defense isn't playing well. On top of that, he's like Aikman in that his team prefers to run, but if it needs him to make plays with his arm, he can do it.

 

[tyke1doe]

Big Ben is good at avoiding a sack and finding a way to win. Not an elite QB
in the skills area though. Brady, Drew and Peyton= elite. Romo,Rivers and Rodgers are knocking on the door. McNabb needs a Superbowl , maybe.

I wouldn't put Drew there yet. He hasn't done anything of note. He hasn't taken his team to the Super Bowl and has become very average at the end of the season. Oh, he's a very, very good quarterback, but he still has something to prove. I wouldn't put him on the elite level yet, especially with the weapons he has.

One other point, if finding a way to win isn't the mark of an elite quarterback, what is?

Would you rather have a quarterback who "finds a way to win" or a quarterback who puts up astronomical numbers but falls short?

Which of the two would you consider elite if you only had one choice?

 

[wileedog]

Would you rather have a quarterback who "finds a way to win" or a quarterback who puts up astronomical numbers but falls short?

What the heck does "finding a way to win" even mean?

Did John Elway just not know how to do it until Terrell Davis showed up? Did Marino know how to do it as a rookie but forget the rest of his career?

If Holmes doesn't make an amazing catch in the end zone, did Ben *NOT* find a way to win in that case?

This whole find a way to win stuff is such garbage. Ben is a good QB who had a great drive at the right time, not some mystical clutch guru.

Elite QBs are the guys you least want to face on any given Sunday. I don't put Ben in that category because he is not a guy who can *consistently* beat you by himself. Everyone else people are listing are guys who can for the most part do that.

 

[Aikbach]

So the standard is that if the defense is the worst in Super Bowl history, then a pressure drive in the biggest game of one's life on a stage with millions of people watching and a drive that will define one's legacy doesn't count?


So if the Cowboys play the Bengals in the Super Bowl and win, will you be as accommodating to anyone who labels Romo less than elite because he leads a Super Bowl-winning drive?

Don't be ridiculous.



You mean the same defense that shut down the Falcons, Panthers and Eagles - keeping their score less than Arizona's?

And you do know you're arguing against the Cowboys defense, the same defense that let Brandon Jacobs run 70-plus yards for a TD on a screen play.

I'm sure you'll be just fine if someone calls our defense overrated because we allowed a big play.

Look, I know you guys don't like it, but Big Ben is an elite quarterback. He has the rings to prove it, and he is constantly gives his team a chance to win even when its defense isn't playing well. On top of that, he's like Aikman in that his team prefers to run, but if it needs him to make plays with his arm, he can do it.

No he's not, anymore than Eli Manning is.

 

[DFWJC]

They had a few drops too.

 

[Go Big D!]

The day Andy Reid, McNabb, and David Akers aren't Eagles I will do a dance.

Like this? :


http://i204.***BLOCKED***/albums/bb304/skineedeville/a47yax.gif

 

[tyke1doe]

What the heck does "finding a way to win" even mean?

Did John Elway just not know how to do it until Terrell Davis showed up? Did Marino know how to do it as a rookie but forget the rest of his career?

If Holmes doesn't make an amazing catch in the end zone, did Ben *NOT* find a way to win in that case?

This whole find a way to win stuff is such garbage. Ben is a good QB who had a great drive at the right time, not some mystical clutch guru.

Elite QBs are the guys you least want to face on any given Sunday. I don't put Ben in that category because he is not a guy who can *consistently* beat you by himself. Everyone else people are listing are guys who can for the most part do that.

First, you need to ask LOBO. He first coined the phrase.

Second, that's not the first clutch drive Ben had, nor has it been the last.

Third, interesting that you make that play all about Santonio Holmes and not about Big Ben putting the ball where only S.H. can catch it. :laugh2:

Fourth, stealing a page from your book, what the heck does "guys you least want to face on any given Sunday" mean?

Fifth, so I take it Aikman wasn't one of those quarterbacks who could consistently beat you by himself, whatever that means.
No quarterback can consistently beat you by himself. But Big Ben has had several drives where he beats teams, by avoiding a sack and making a perfect throw.

Big Ben is ELITE.

 

[wileedog]

First, you need to ask LOBO. He first coined the phrase.

Second, that's not the first clutch drive Ben had, nor has it been the last.

Jason Campbell has had clutch drives. Big deal.

Third, interesting that you make that play all about Santonio Holmes and not about Big Ben putting the ball where only S.H. can catch it. :laugh2:

You're not answering the question. If Holmes drops the ball, did Ben fail to "find a way to win?" What if the LT trips before the throw and Ben is sacked even before he makes it? Did he not do enough to 'will his team to victory'?

Fourth, stealing a page from your book, what the heck does "guys you least want to face on any given Sunday" mean?

What's confusing about identifying the top 3 or 4 QBs in the league you don't want to play, and deciding that Ben is not one of those QBs?

Fifth, so I take it Aikman wasn't one of those quarterbacks who could consistently beat you by himself, whatever that means.

No Aikman could (at least while he still had Irvin, an OLine and an unscrambled noggin), he just never had to.

No quarterback can consistently beat you by himself. But Big Ben has had several drives where he beats teams, by avoiding a sack and making a perfect throw.

Big Ben is ELITE.

He's had several losses where he threw multiple interceptions all by himself. Like many other QBs. But I don't consider his skills and total package as a QB to be among the elite, and just because he's managed a few late drives does not change that.

His career INT% is almost as high as Romo's before Tony figured things out this season, yet everyone had ridden Romo relentlessly about turnovers while treating Roth like royalty. The only difference is Ben has had a big time defense in the past to bail him out, Tony hasn't.

 

[Bleu Star]

Let them implode. We've got a home game following a dominating shutout. I love it.

Something I actually agree with you on...

 

[kmd24]

Donovan McNabb throws so many balls in the dirt that he doesn't get called for intentional grounding when he throws the ball one yard past the line of scrimmage because the officials see the guy 15 yards downfield and think, "Yep, that's the guy he was throwing it to."

He's elevated that team for the last decade, but I think it's great that he's only almost-good-enough for them to win it all. Eagles fans must have a permanent case of blue balls.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

Big Ben himself admitted that when he threw that pass in the Super Bowl, the he "knew it was intercepted, and he screwed up."

How many receivers make that play? And how many passes go through three defenders without being touched. The fact that he thought it was picked off should tell you that there was a great deal of luck involved in that play... Certainly more than you are willing to admit...

 

[Daudr]

The fans are never happy. For years before Romo, I would have gladly taken McNabb over any slop we had out there at QB. That being said, if the Boys win Saturday night, the Kevin Kolb era will begin in Philly next year and he just might be better.

I hope this is a joke. Either that, or you were probably one of the ones trying to run Romo out of town too. McNabb plays for the evil empire, but he is one of the league's best QBs. Kolb, from what he's shown, is no where close to as good as McNabb.

 

[Daudr]

The ability to rally his team for wins. That last Super Bowl drive was Big Ben all the way, as was the game against the Packers.

It's not just about stats. It's about delivering when it counts. Rivers and Romo have an opportunity to do that. But they haven't done it yet.

Yeah, he sure showed those qualities when they "unleashed hell" in December this year . . . :laugh2:

 

[PullMyFinger]

<sigh> thanks for the post removal

 

[tyke1doe]

Jason Campbell has had clutch drives. Big deal.

In championship games? In the Super Bowl?

Thanks for that reach.

You're not answering the question. If Holmes drops the ball, did Ben fail to "find a way to win?" What if the LT trips before the throw and Ben is sacked even before he makes it? Did he not do enough to 'will his team to victory'?

If Harrison drops a ball, if Wayne drops a ball, if Moss drops a ball, do Peyton and Brady "find a way to win"?

If, if, if.

Pulease. You're reaching.

What's confusing about identifying the top 3 or 4 QBs in the league you don't want to play, and deciding that Ben is not one of those QBs?

Is that what defines elite? What defines top? The ones with the better numbers? If that's the case, then Vinny Testeverde and Drew Bledsoe are among the top quarterbacks in NFL history?

So define what "tops" means? And are you willing to have a quarterback who wins the ultimate prize or one who puts up stats and nothing else?

No Aikman could (at least while he still had Irvin, an OLine and an unscrambled noggin), he just never had to.

Exactly. And Big Ben can too. He just hasn't had to because the Steelers were a run-first team. He now has to do it and has had to pass for a victory. And he has done that.

He's had several losses where he threw multiple interceptions all by himself. Like many other QBs. But I don't consider his skills and total package as a QB to be among the elite, and just because he's managed a few late drives does not change that.

So has Peyton.

Oh, and Roethlisberger has a winning record as a quarterback.
Second, you can't just point to interceptions and say that makes a bad quarterback. You have to examine those interceptions. Were they bad throws? Were they tipped passes? Did they come at the end of the half or at the end of a game?

Regardless, if a quarterback can overcome interceptions and deliver a win when needed, he is getting the job done. He's a winner when it counts. That's what Ben is. I consider that elite, winning when you absolutely have to.

His career INT% is almost as high as Romo's before Tony figured things out this season, yet everyone had ridden Romo relentlessly about turnovers while treating Roth like royalty. The only difference is Ben has had a big time defense in the past to bail him out, Tony hasn't.

All excuses. So now it's not "What if Holmes drops the ball" it's "He had a better defense."

I guess that defense caught that final throw by Big Ben. :laugh2:

You guys are funny. You can point to all the stats you want to. Big Ben is a winner. He led a Super Bowl winning drive, ducking and dodging Cardinal defenders and delivering strikes. He did it in the playoffs. He did it in the regular season and he did it in the Super Bowl, the most pressure-filled game there is.

Yep, he's elite.

 

[tyke1doe]

Yeah, he sure showed those qualities when they "unleashed hell" in December this year . . . :laugh2:

You guys are funny. You live in the moment. You don't see from a broad view.

I guess you think a team can go to the playoffs every year. :laugh2:

Newsflash: Elite quarterbacks don't always make the playoffs.

Now, try to take away that last-minute Super Bowl drive with your silly arguments.

Big Ben isn't an elite quarterback. Now that's worth a :laugh2:

If someone called Romo not an elite quarterback after he leads a game-winning playoff drive, there'd be a riot on the Cowboys forum. :laugh2: