Medical literature on nerve regeneration statistics and J Smith

[plymkr]

Thanks OP for posting the article. I appreciate it.

 

[waldoputty]

Thanks OP for posting the article. I appreciate it.

You are welcome.

 

[waldoputty]

A pure dorsiflexor of the foot: tibialis anterior which is stimulated by the deep peroneal nerve branch off of the common fibular nerve. The common fibular nerve branches into the this deep peroneal, and a superficial peroneal nerve that runs along the outside aspect of the leg. The fibularis longus, brevis, tertius are the primary dorsiflexors of the foot , but also help in dorsiflexion.

However, the tibialis anterior from the deep peroneal nerve is the main dorsiflexor of the foot. You have a collective group of muscles that aid in it. The everters start where your fibula is on your outside of the upper leg.

Problem is where the nerve was damaged initially. Axonal regrowth happens first generally when an injury is traumatic enough , followed by re-myelination of the axon. So it is really a 2 step process for the nerve to recover. We can be fairly certain when axonal regrowth will happen, but the myelination can be spotty.

I would be expecting his physical therapists to have been using some electrical stimulation devices on his nerves to aid them in firing.

I am in a doctorate program for physical therapy, and we have been doing quite a bit of work with nerves and electrical stim, so this is fairly fresh in my mind. Granted, I am only a student so take it for what it is worth.

I would be shocked if his nerve hasn't started firing by week 14-16 honestly.

Poor you, the grad student slave in the lab lol,
Or are you still studying for the qual exams?

For these different muscles:
1. I copied an image of tibialis anterior which you said is stimulated by the deep peroneal nerve. Did I get this right? The muscle runs from the knee region to the middle of the leg, and performs the dorsiflexion through its tendon which extends into the foot.

2. According to what I read, fibularis longus and brevis causes eversion of the foot. I also coped an image of fibularis longus, brevis, tertius. It seems brevis and tertius are lower in the leg than tibialis anterior. However, they seem to be innervated by a different nerve? What this nerve also affected by the knee injury? Or are they off the same main nerve that was damaged? If they were affected, it seems they are further away from the knee than tibialis anterior and may need more time for nerve regeneration?

3. It seems like you are saying the axon growth is not the issue, but it is the myelination? I took a look at a few publications and they said that if the delay is too long, then there is a problem of the schwann cells ceasing to help reinnervation, but actually become a hostile environment...

Am I being too slow, or is this roughly the story?

Regarding earlier firing of the nerve, I think some of us suspected the nerve has been firing for quite a while. However we did not have the basis to say such a thing... The people I spoke to said the functional recovery takes weeks or more. Are you saying that is due to myelination? They seems to say it is relearning to use the muscle...

Never expected this to become an anatomy class - never took one lol

 

[dallasdave]

You are welcome.

 

[dallasdave]

Poor you, the grad student slave in the lab lol,
Or are you still studying for the qual exams?

For these different muscles:
1. I copied an image of tibialis anterior which you said is stimulated by the deep peroneal nerve. Did I get this right? The muscle runs from the knee region to the middle of the leg, and performs the dorsiflexion through its tendon which extends into the foot.

2. According to what I read, fibularis longus and brevis causes eversion of the foot. I also coped an image of fibularis longus, brevis, tertius. It seems brevis and tertius are lower in the leg than tibialis anterior. However, they seem to be innervated by a different nerve? What this nerve also affected by the knee injury? Or are they off the same main nerve that was damaged? If they were affected, it seems they are further away from the knee than tibialis anterior and may need more time for nerve regeneration?

3. It seems like you are saying the axon growth is not the issue, but it is the myelination? I took a look at a few publications and they said that if the delay is too long, then there is a problem of the schwann cells ceasing to help reinnervation, but actually become a hostile environment...

Am I being too slow, or is this roughly the story?

Regarding earlier firing of the nerve, I think some of us suspected the nerve has been firing for quite a while. However we did not have the basis to say such a thing... The people I spoke to said the functional recovery takes weeks or more. Are you saying that is due to myelination? They seems to say it is relearning to use the muscle...

Never expected this to become an anatomy class - never took one lol

WOW

 

[Idgit]

I am new to this board.

Great one liner, I will give you that.
The sad thing is I have chatted a lot with Fuzzy and he really cares about the Cowboys.
I dont understand why it is open season on Fuzzy for some in this board.

I have followed the Cowboys since the Staubach to Pearson pass in the NFC championship game.
I remember the nightmarish "the catch", and followed diligently the building up of 90's dynasty.
I have always been the biggest Cowboys fan I know, but Fuzzy seems to take it to another level.
His weekly game tape views are unbelievable.
I appreciate that so much that I messaged him for an early copy last week.

I dont understand the reason for the bad feelings on this board.
With all the abuse for all the free work out of love for the Cowboys, I still dont understand why Fuzzy does not use the ignore function.
Perhaps he is too nice a guy.
In contrast, I now have used the ignore on 3 posters and also started posting my full articles on BTB since my last big thread was deleted.

WP

Fuzzy is smarter than a lot of people and doesn't mind saying so. Some people react with anti-intellectualism and, not surprisingly, a lot of those dudes also happen to have a generally negative outlook on most things involving the team. You just gotta consider the source with that stuff. Lots of other posters have read and appreciated the info both times it's been posted. That's what matters.

 

[Idgit]

A pure dorsiflexor of the foot: tibialis anterior which is stimulated by the deep peroneal nerve branch off of the common fibular nerve. The common fibular nerve branches into the this deep peroneal, and a superficial peroneal nerve that runs along the outside aspect of the leg. The fibularis longus, brevis, tertius are the primary dorsiflexors of the foot , but also help in dorsiflexion.

However, the tibialis anterior from the deep peroneal nerve is the main dorsiflexor of the foot. You have a collective group of muscles that aid in it. The everters start where your fibula is on your outside of the upper leg.

Problem is where the nerve was damaged initially. Axonal regrowth happens first generally when an injury is traumatic enough , followed by re-myelination of the axon. So it is really a 2 step process for the nerve to recover. We can be fairly certain when axonal regrowth will happen, but the myelination can be spotty.

I would be expecting his physical therapists to have been using some electrical stimulation devices on his nerves to aid them in firing.

I am in a doctorate program for physical therapy, and we have been doing quite a bit of work with nerves and electrical stim, so this is fairly fresh in my mind. Granted, I am only a student so take it for what it is worth.

I would be shocked if his nerve hasn't started firing by week 14-16 honestly.

Smith's already talking about the nerve 'continuing' to fire in interviews. I'd say it's a safe bet he's coming and it's been underreported.

A better question is how much people really think he gives us missing so much time and being a rookie. There's not going to be much time to get him up to speed if he starts week 14 at the earliest.

 

[waldoputty]

Fuzzy is smarter than a lot of people and doesn't mind saying so. Some people react with anti-intellectualism and, not surprisingly, a lot of those dudes also happen to have a generally negative outlook on most things involving the team. You just gotta consider the source with that stuff. Lots of other posters have read and appreciated the info both times it's been posted. That's what matters.

May be the difference is Fuzzy is smarter. So when I write about it, it needs to be less complicated

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Broaddus states that there's only two GMs in the league that could have drafted Jaylon Smith before the 5th round, Patriots GM and Jerry Jones.

That's speculation. Anybody can say anything after the fact it happens. Unless Broaddus was in every war room I don't think he really knows when a team will pick a certain player.

 

[waldoputty]

Smith's already talking about the nerve 'continuing' to fire in interviews. I'd say it's a safe bet he's coming and it's been underreported.

A better question is how much people really think he gives us missing so much time and being a rookie. There's not going to be much time to get him up to speed if he starts week 14 at the earliest.

It seems the Cowboys prefer not to give detailed clear updates on Jaylon. Cannot really blame them because it is quite technical and most fans are not this curious. Putting preliminary info out there just gets people mixed up and upset... could hurt the brand etc.

 

[Doomsday]

That's speculation. Anybody can say anything after the fact it happens. Unless Broaddus was in every war room I don't think he really knows when a team will pick a certain player.

It is speculation, however I think what he is saying is that few GMs have enough job security to make that kind of pick in the 2nd round.

 

[Maxmadden]

Smith's already talking about the nerve 'continuing' to fire in interviews. I'd say it's a safe bet he's coming and it's been underreported.

A better question is how much people really think he gives us missing so much time and being a rookie. There's not going to be much time to get him up to speed if he starts week 14 at the earliest.

He has been attending meetings and should have better preparation with the mental aspects. It should put him ahead of the curve to some degree.

I agree with you that providing much of an impact at the NFL level in just two games seems unlikely. That is providing that he is near 100%. He might could provide some much needed depth if we move deep into the playoffs.

 

[Doc50]

I posted all of that stuff near 6 months ago. I also posted percentages I put on his recovery using the nonsurgical intervention times and was attacked by certain posters here incessantly.

I'm pretty sure that I also posted that article.

Right, and folks can read all my previous posts as well.

We're beating a dead......uh, regenerating horse.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

It is speculation, however I think what he is saying is that few GMs have enough job security to make that kind of pick in the 2nd round.

Well they aren't the owner and president either

 

[xwalker]

I am new to this board.

Great one liner, I will give you that.
The sad thing is I have chatted a lot with Fuzzy and he really cares about the Cowboys.
I dont understand why it is open season on Fuzzy for some in this board.

I have followed the Cowboys since the Staubach to Pearson pass in the NFC championship game.
I remember the nightmarish "the catch", and followed diligently the building up of 90's dynasty.
I have always been the biggest Cowboys fan I know, but Fuzzy seems to take it to another level.
His weekly game tape views are unbelievable.
I appreciate that so much that I messaged him for an early copy last week.

I dont understand the reason for the bad feelings on this board.
With all the abuse for all the free work out of love for the Cowboys, I still dont understand why Fuzzy does not use the ignore function.
Perhaps he is too nice a guy.
In contrast, I now have used the ignore on 3 posters and also started posting my full articles on BTB since my last big thread was deleted.

WP

Thanks for all of the info. It's a good discussion.

Also thanks to @Szczepanik and @FuzzyLumpkins

Don't let the naysayers get to you. Keep in mind that there are many people who appreciate it when someone puts significant effort into a post or thread. There are many people that will be reading these threads that might never post in the thread, but will appreciate it nonetheless.

Keep in mind that there are likely people that post here and pretend to be Cowboys fans but might actually be fans of other teams.

Other people are easily offended if they think somebody is smarter than them. Most people would readily admit that they are no match athletically compared to a guy like Zeke; however, many people would never admit that someone is smarter than them even if the other guy is a Quantum Physicist.

It is unfortunate that people don't consider the source in a positive way. You would think people like Fuzzy that obviously put effort into their opinions would get some benefit of the doubt when they post, but inevitably somebody will call them out. Often the people calling them out have no clue about much of anything (football or life) but feel entitled to call out people anyway.

 

[waldoputty]

Right, and folks can read all my previous posts as well.

We're beating a dead......uh, regenerating horse.

I think people were skeptical and wanted more proof in terms of numbers and references.
So I dug up some statistics from medical journals and tried to summarize it.
Did not realize Fuzzy (and you) also did that.

 

[dallasdave]

I think people were skeptical and wanted more proof in terms of numbers and references.
So I dug up some statistics from medical journals and tried to summarize it.
Did not realize Fuzzy (and you) also did that.

Guess we will have to talk to the Doctor in charge ----JJ

 

[Jinxx13x]

Lot's people laughing at the cowboys and jerry jones when they made this pick, When this nerve re-fires, jaylon returns to form, and they look at this overall draft - No one will be laughing anymore except Jerry Jones, Cowboys Organization, and all of us fans !

thats a fact

 

[waldoputty]

Lot's people laughing at the cowboys and jerry jones when they made this pick, When this nerve re-fires, jaylon returns to form, and they look at this overall draft - No one will be laughing anymore except Jerry Jones, Cowboys Organization, and all of us fans !

thats a fact

My fingers are still crossed !

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Fuzzy is smarter than a lot of people and doesn't mind saying so. Some people react with anti-intellectualism and, not surprisingly, a lot of those dudes also happen to have a generally negative outlook on most things involving the team. You just gotta consider the source with that stuff. Lots of other posters have read and appreciated the info both times it's been posted. That's what matters.

You find him intelligent. That's a poor reflection on you.