Michael Irvin says Roy Williams doesnt run complete routes

[Bleu Star]

And when he plays well he gets consistent praise also. If you think your hero is without fault, think again.

If you think your hero Romo isn't without fault think again & again.

 

[juck]

Worst trade ever.Skill players are a dime a dozen,we need good lineman.RW is another Keyshawn.That is fine when u have Steve Smith on the other side or a Santana Moss type.

 

[JordanTaber]

:bang2:

Now I think you are saying stupid things just to annoy us.

Did you see that coaches film above?



I can't even believe you had the nads to post in this thread.

http://www.video-line.com/p-83-train-with-big-game-essence-of-a-true-receiver.aspx

Pleaee go buy one of those.

Holt only played in the most successful timing based passing game in the last century, but he's not a good route runner, lol.

This just goes to show how much (little) you know.

I know Torry Holt better than your own mother. I live in St. Louis.

He can not separate from corners. Every catch he makes that is outside the hash marks is with a corner draped all over him. He is not quick or explosive out of his cuts; he rounds his routes. He's a mini-Keyshawn Johnson; he has great hands. That's it.

He's one of the most overrated players in the history of the league and has never been anything more than a #2 caliber receiver who was the very personification of "product of a system."

Additionally, your comment that he "played in the most successful timing based passing game in the last century" is hysterical considering the fact that the Mike Martz offense IS NOT A TIMING BASED OFFENSIVE SYSTEM. It's a sight-adjustment system.

 

[theebs]

If you think your hero Romo isn't without fault think again & again.

lol

In this thread alone I have shown where romo has made mistakes. I am not against pointing out mistakes by romo and garrett, I have and will again in the future.

But ultimately I dont think they are what is holding back the offense right now, if that statement is even true.

 

[dcfanatic]

What's bizarre about this isn't that it's a bad route. He just stops. It looks like a comeback, but it's not really because he just stops. Now, if he'd stopped after he knew the pass was already made to Witten, that's one thing. There's no reason to keep running the route after the pass has been made. But I don't see how he can really tell the pass has already been made by the time he stops. He had to know beforehand that he wasn't getting the ball.

If that's the case, then what he did is fine -- sort of. He did run hard to begin the route, so as not to tip the hand that he was far down the list of reads for Tony (my guess is he was the 4th read on this route at best, with Witten and TO being 1 and 2, regardless of order, and the dumpoff being the 3rd read). But the reason he gets the "sort of" is that he needs to realize Tony is going to improvise a good bit and he needs to keep trying to get open even if he's the 4th read.

In summary, I guess, is that the route wasn't the problem -- the problem was him just standing there after he ran his "decoy" route.

How is the route not the problem when he 'ran himself into coverage'?

If he's the fourth option he should still be breaking back to the LOS.

And if you are saying that he just stops then that's him not finishing his route which is the problem.

 

[TheCount]

You need to talk to a football coach, lol.

What happens when Witten isn't open. Then T.O. isn't open.

Then Romo looks to Roy and he's sitting there holding hand with the CB.

Any coach will tell you that a WR has to work hard on every route so the defender can't relax.

Like I said, the throw was already made before Roy came out of his break. However, the joys of arguing a youtube video of a single route aren't endless, so I'll leave it where it is.

Is it a great route? No. Is it ridiculous to say the guy runs bad routes and show that one play and include a hall of famer in the same video as proof? Yes.

Frankly, the only one that ran a good route on the play was Witten, so maybe we should cut everyone else since we could have Stanback and Hurd running the routes Owens and Roy ran on that particular play, they're cheaper at least.

 

[theebs]

This just goes to show how much (little) you know.

I know Torry Holt better than your own mother. I live in St. Louis.

He can not separate from corners. Every catch he makes that is outside the hash marks is with a corner draped all over him. He is not quick or explosive out of his cuts; he rounds his routes. He's a mini-Keyshawn Johnson; he has great hands. That's it.

He's one of the most overrated players in the history of the league and has never been anything more than a #2 caliber receiver who was the very personification of "product of a system."

Additionally, your comment that he "played in the most successful timing based passing game in the last century" is hysterical considering the fact that the Mike Martz offense IS NOT A TIMING BASED OFFENSIVE SYSTEM. It's a sight-adjustment system.

lol

 

[CATCH17]

Worst trade ever.Skill players are a dime a dozen,we need good lineman.RW is another Keyshawn.That is fine when u have Steve Smith on the other side or a Santana Moss type.

I'd compare him more to Plaxico.

Roy Williams, Like Plaxico, can be covered and still make plays.

If Eli didn't throw jump balls to Burress from time to time he would be a much lesser receiver.

Plus I think Roy can stretch the field much better than Keyshawn.

Keyshawn is a possesion receiver.

Roy W. has the skills to make every play. At some point we have to get him the ball.

With the way we use our receivers in this offense I think you could take anyone in the league and their numbers would go down.

 

[dcfanatic]

Worst trade ever.Skill players are a dime a dozen,we need good lineman.RW is another Keyshawn.That is fine when u have Steve Smith on the other side or a Santana Moss type.

Or a Housh.

 

[CATCH17]

lol

Is he playing the opposite game?

Like the Detroit Lions to the 72 Dolhpins?

 

[dcfanatic]

I know Torry Holt better than your own mother. I live in St. Louis.

I am still trying to figure out this statement.

And why would it matter where you live Nelly.

 

[Bleu Star]

lol

In this thread alone I have shown where romo has made mistakes. I am not against pointing out mistakes by romo and garrett, I have and will again in the future.

But ultimately I dont think they are what is holding back the offense right now, if that statement is even true.

Funny how you lump TO into a Roy Williams route running discussion. I never saw that coming.

Just for the record, Romo and Garret do bear a portion of responsibility for our lack of production on offense. No one is bulletproof including TO, Romo, and Garrett...

If the route running is poor get in their ***** until it improves... That's called coaching up. Garrett should try it. Romo should also shed the aw shucks persona and get in their ***** upon returning to the huddle after a ****ed up play. That's called leadership. Romo should give it a shot...

No more Gomer Pyle please..

I know nothing about football. Carry on.

There's nothing like a classic difference of opinion. TO runs good routes. Try to stay on topic.

If both top WRs loaf and no one says anything then screw those in a position to say something that act like little mice. They need to grow two pairs.

 

[Bleu Star]

With the way we use our receivers in this offense I think you could take anyone in the league and their numbers would go down.

Exactly...

God forbid anyone tries to suggest the actual play calling sucks and lacks basic creativity...

 

[theogt]

How is the route not the problem when he 'ran himself into coverage'?

This doesn't make sense at all.

If he's the fourth option he should still be breaking back to the LOS.

Right, but that's a different problem altogether. Has nothing to do with running routes.

And if you are saying that he just stops then that's him not finishing his route which is the problem.

It's like a receiver not finishing his route on a run play. It just doesn't matter.

 

[dcfanatic]

Is it a great route? No. Is it ridiculous to say the guy runs bad routes and show that one play and include a hall of famer in the same video as proof? Yes.

What Proof?

I was comparing him to Irvin because he's has the same big frame to shield defenders.

If I was trying to prove something I would have put in a video of a guy running a good route.

????

You lost me.

 

[Rampage]

where's Hostile?

 

[dcfanatic]

This doesn't make sense at all.

Right, but that's a different problem altogether. Has nothing to do with running routes.

It's like a receiver not finishing his route on a run play. It just doesn't matter.

The sense is that he's running a lazy route and he would have never be an option for Romo because he took himself out of the play.

How does running lazy routes have nothing to do with running routes?

And it's not a running play. It's a passing play and he's the fourth option, that's your theory, so he's supposed to be coming back to the QB at some point. Instead he kills the route and stands there. So his route ends there when it's supposed to end up somewhere 5 yards closer to the LOS of scrimmage on an angle towards the QB.

But I think we are saying the same thing.

The route was so poor it was dead before it even began.

 

[5Countem5]

Additionally, your comment that he "played in the most successful timing based passing game in the last century" is hysterical considering the fact that the Mike Martz offense IS NOT A TIMING BASED OFFENSIVE SYSTEM. It's a sight-adjustment system.

 

[CATCH17]

Exactly...

God forbid anyone tries to suggest the actual play calling sucks and lacks basic creativity...

I dont think the playcalling as a whole sucks.

For the most part I think its really good.

But I think we need to add some obvious wrinkles.

TO can turn a 3 yard pass into a 7 yard gain at will.

I wish TO was allowed to do more things on underneath routes instead of trying to run off the coverage every play.

 

[JordanTaber]

I am still trying to figure out this statement.

And why would it matter where you live Nelly.

It matters because I've seen so many Rams games my head could explode. I know Torry Holt's game very well.

The Rams did have one of the best route runners of all-time on the roster, but his name was Isaac Bruce. Bruce is STILL a better receiver than Holt. When you watch the two of them run routes, it's night and day. Bruce is fluid, sudden, and explosive out of his cuts. Corners are always playing catchup with him because he has them completely off-balance.

Not so with Holt.

If you want to see great route runners, you should watch Bruce or any of the following:

Steve Smith
Derrick Mason
A healthy Marvin Harrison
A healthy Brandon Stokley
Chad Johnson (very good, not great)