Mick's mail: Hamlin contract talk heats up.

[dbair1967]

To make a long story short...

If it weren't for Hamlin's presence...

1) The Fins game may have turned out differently(Sure-Green may have overthrown a wide open Chambers for 6, but I doubt Keith Davis would have been nowhere near anywhere, OTOH).

2) We might not have won @Philly(Eagles might have instead scored to tie it up 14-14 going into the half-instead, Hamlin's pick on that drive ultimately set up the beginning of the 3rd quarter where we ended up putting the nail in their season's coffin).

3) We likely would have been blown out @the Meadowlands(again-Hamlin made a key pick in the 1st half when the Giants' O was in full rhythm).

4) Favre would have successfully deep-balled us if Davis was in the secondary instead.

Folks-that could have been FOUR losses right there.

dude thats some serious grasping for straws

He was a positive addition last yr, but he was not worth 4 W's...no safety, not even great one's like Kenny Easley, Ronnie Lott or Darren Woodson are worth 4 w's to a team...

David

 

[lspain1]

If we are talking a long term deal with some up front money for Hamlin, does that mean that the "other Roy Williams" to Dallas deal has no chance? Long term deals are typically more cap friendly up front than franchising a player so perhaps not. I think Chris Canty gets a deal as well. We'll see.

 

[DCBoysfan]

I'd like to see him sign for slightly less than that, but won't be expecting him to. Either way, this is very good news.

You and me Both, Al Davis kinda screwed us...But Hamlin is comning off a Probowl year so I can see him asking for a tad more than Wilson got.

 

[TNCowboy]

You do realize that this conversation is taking place because some people are against the fact that we're probably giving Hamlin a lot of money, don't you?

You're illustrating the antiquated notion that I'm referring to very well, thanks.

No one said he's elite. He is a playmaker however, and solid too. So yeah, he is 'something more'.

Antiquated notion? :laugh2:

It's the way it is in the NFL right now. Today. Not 5 years ago. Even star safeties like Sanders and Reed aren't being paid what CBs or WR or OL are getting, much less what a QB is getting. Safeties don't generally make as much $ as almost every other position.

That Al Davis and a few other teams ridiculously overpaid for safeties and that Jerry Jones is considering it is hardly a change in the way the NFL is doing business. For Jones to cave and give Hamlin more than Madieu Williams $ laugh2: ) shows that he has lost his grasp of salary cap responsibility.

And Hamlin's a "playmaker" now? He made a few plays. He's not shown over the course of his career that he can be a consistent playmaker.

 

[tomson75]

Antiquated notion? :laugh2:

It's the way it is in the NFL right now. Today. Not 5 years ago. Even star safeties like Sanders and Reed aren't being paid what CBs or WR or OL are getting, much less what a QB is getting. Safeties don't generally make as much $ as almost every other position.

That Al Davis and a few other teams ridiculously overpaid for safeties and that Jerry Jones is considering it is hardly a change in the way the NFL is doing business. For Jones to cave and give Hamlin more than Madieu Williams $ laugh2: ) shows that he has lost his grasp of salary cap responsibility.

Adding smilies to your posts don't make them any more truthful. It isn't how it is today. The fact that YOU don't think so, doesn't make it so. I never claimed they make as much as the top players in the NFL. I never said they're as valuable as CB's, WR's, and QB's. That wasn't even a part of the discussion, and adding it to it doesn't strengthen your point one iota.

....and the fact that you think you have a stronger grasp of the Cowboys' salary cap 'responsibility' than Jerry Jones, makes me think you're not worth discussing this with in the first place.

 

[dueyhemlock]

You and me Both, Al Davis kinda screwed us...But Hamlin is comning off a Probowl year so I can see him asking for a tad more than Wilson got.

Us letting Al Davis set our price is just not right.

Hamlin had a good year this year. He hasn't proven over time that he should be paid top FS money. He is probably wanting more than Wilson got from Al Davis because he is a better player, just not a all pro FS.

Look at Newman's new deal, not the top deal out there but I consider him to be one of the top @ his position. He even stated he would have taken less from Jerry.

We gave Hamlin his chance last year. It was a win/win situation last year for both sides. Numerous teams weren't knocking down his door. So why pay all pro money?

 

[dueyhemlock]

Antiquated notion? :laugh2:

It's the way it is in the NFL right now. Today. Not 5 years ago. Even star safeties like Sanders and Reed aren't being paid what CBs or WR or OL are getting, much less what a QB is getting. Safeties don't generally make as much $ as almost every other position.

That Al Davis and a few other teams ridiculously overpaid for safeties and that Jerry Jones is considering it is hardly a change in the way the NFL is doing business.


For Jones to cave and give Hamlin more than Madieu Williams $ laugh2: ) shows that he has lost his grasp of salary cap responsibility.


And Hamlin's a "playmaker" now? He made a few plays. He's not shown over the course of his career that he can be a consistent playmaker.

This is totally correct. I hate to have to pay all pro money to a guy that hasn't played
at that level over his career.

It's not Jerry's grasp of the cap, it's just he is limited with options which may cause the "over paying" of Hamlin.

 

[Boysboy]

dude thats some serious grasping for straws

He was a positive addition last yr, but he was not worth 4 W's...no safety, not even great one's like Kenny Easley, Ronnie Lott or Darren Woodson are worth 4 w's to a team...

David

Did you even watch the @Miami, @Philly, @the Meadowlands, and GB games?

OK-yes, it was a bit of a reach to say he was the SOLE reason why they won.(Romo and Owens were probably the biggest reasons)

However-the point of my post was that he made some GAME-CHANGING plays that Keith Davis would have done nothing but have a wet dream over.

So it's really, really important we keep Hamlin.

 

[khiladi]

Did you even watch the @Miami, @Philly, @the Meadowlands, and GB games?

OK-yes, it was a bit of a reach to say he was the SOLE reason why they won.(Romo and Owens were probably the biggest reasons)

However-the point of my post was that he made some GAME-CHANGING plays that Keith Davis would have done nothing but have a wet dream over.

So it's really, really important we keep Hamlin.

Keith Davis isn't here anymore and Courtney Brown and Watkins have been getting lots of reps... The contract is going to be dictated by what the Cowboys see in them, not what Keith Davis could or could not do.

 

[theogt]

Keith Davis isn't here anymore and Courtney Brown and Watkins have been getting lots of reps... The contract is going to be dictated by what the Cowboys see in them, not what Keith Davis could or could not do.

The question was whether he made an impact last year.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I'd say that's about right for Hamlin. If we can get 6 years at the level of play we got last year, it's definitely worth it. He gives us lots of flexibility at safety.

The only thing I worry about is him returning to his level of play before last year. No question he raised his level of play well above what it had been in the past. I'm sure part of that was to land a new contract this season. Based on his level of play with the Seahawks, there weren't any teams kick down doors to sign him. Thats why the Cowboys paid next to nothing for him last season.

I'm not going to be negative about it though. My glass is half full today. :laugh2:

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It's a tough question. Percy mentioned that Hamlin was Wade's valuable QB of the defense, and that's true. But he also raved about Canty last year, too.

I agree with David that all things being equal, I'd rather have a very good DL than a very good safety. But the problem with our situation is that we don't have anyone behind Hamlin. Yeah, we've had terrible problems at FS the last few years, but we haven't spent any high draft picks there to solve the problem, either. If you had a young guy showing a lot of promise, maybe you let him walk. But we don't. And we all know about Roy's problems. So do you take a chance on having to replace both safeties in the next year or two when you don't have any other good ones on the roster?

It's not all that different at DE, though. I like Hatcher, but he hasn't done a ton yet. And Spears is nothing special IMO.

That's what's a little frustrating about our draft -- we spent all this money on Newman and Barber, and at the same time used four of our first five picks on corners and RBs. Corners I get a little, as you have to have several of them. But the RB, I don't know if I understand. Not that the players we took were bad players, but it would've been nice if they'd have been at positions where we needed help.

Back to Canty/Hamlin, I have a bad feeling that in Jerry's mind, Tank is going to make Canty expendable. I don't like that idea at all.

 

[theogt]

The only thing I worry about is him returning to his level of play before last year. No question he raised his level of play well above what it had been in the past. I'm sure part of that was to land a new contract this season. Based on his level of play with the Seahawks, there weren't any teams kick down doors to sign him. Thats why the Cowboys paid next to nothing for him last season.

I'm not going to be negative about it though. My glass is half full today. :laugh2:

Before his head injury at Seattle he had extremely good coverage numbers. The question was whether he could return to that level two years after the injury.

 

[Boysboy]

Keith Davis isn't here anymore and Courtney Brown and Watkins have been getting lots of reps... The contract is going to be dictated by what the Cowboys see in them, not what Keith Davis could or could not do.

Actually-I was talking about LAST YEAR, and 2007 ALONE.(Keith Davis was on our roster then, of course)

Again-if we didn't sign Hamlin last year, and Keith remained at FS, we probably would have been 9-7, at best.

As for Brown and Watkins-both need at least another year to groom. Both have alot of potential, but still are in WIP mode. Watkins', in particular, knack in college was that he wasn't that great in run support. Maybe he's improved that area now? Dunno-but I wouldn't yet take a chance on starting either of them this year.

 

[aikemirv]

I think that if you are going to pay Hamlin that much money then you really have to make a decision on Henry or Roy Williams next year. I think committing to him means letting go of one of the other 2. Hopefully with Jones, Scandrick and Jenkins we can do without Henry playing CB.

But if Henry stays and goes to FS that means Hamlin has to change to SS which I don't think he is a s suited for. Henry, healthy, could do just as well at FS as Hamlin could and for less money.

I really think Jerry should just stick with the Franchise tender and be ready to go with Watkins or Henry at the FS position next year. That would be my choice as to how to handle the situation

 

[dbair1967]

Again-if we didn't sign Hamlin last year, and Keith remained at FS, we probably would have been 9-7, at best.

and thats absolutely proposterus...we had a ton of talent on this team, he did not make the team...liek I said before, no safety is worth 4 wins a yr to any team no matter what kind of player he is, and Hamlin is not even remotely close to a hall of fame calibar player

would the defense have been worse off with Davis starting instead of Hamlin, probably so..although you dont know what other adjustments they might have made to offset that, nor do you even know if Ketih Davis would have been the starter

David

 

[big dog cowboy]

I have a bad feeling that in Jerry's mind, Tank is going to make Canty expendable.

How could that happen?

 

[YosemiteSam]

II have a bad feeling that in Jerry's mind, Tank is going to make Canty expendable. I don't like that idea at all.

Tank (NT) and Canty (DE) play different positions.

 

[TNCowboy]

.... makes me think you're not worth discussing this with in the first place.

Your posts make it obvious that you aren't...

 

[Verdict]

Hamlin is a "good" safety, not a "great" safety. If he were playing for another team, it is highly doubtful he would have made the pro bowl. We should not overpay to keep him. I'm not sure he is in the top half of the starting safeties in the league. He is a luxury that the cowboys will not able to afford in a couple of years. Signing him to a long term deal would be a mistake, since we could draft a starter next year in the first or second round.