Mick's mail: Hamlin contract talk heats up.

[tomson75]

and so could virtually any safety...Barber is a very very good player and has made a huge impact with the PT he has got

Hmmm....that must be why we've such good safeties patrolling deep zones for the last few years. Yep, super easy to find.

not more important that bigtime pass rushers or shutdown CB's, but otherwise, yes...more important

...and yet are a dime a dozen. See: Ahmad Bradshaw and any of the other dozens of good backs that have come out of the fourth and fifth rounds of the draft lately.

name one EVER that won a super bowl because of a safety...on the other hand, I seriously doubt we win 3 super bowls in the 90's without Emmitt Smith...Denver doesnt go back to back without Terrell Davis doing what he did...the Rams certainly would have never won the super bowl without Marshall Faulk

I never said they were typically in the running for NFL MVP...although last years defensive MVP.....yep, you guessed it...a safety.

Safety is a more important position now than it was 10 years ago...whether you like it or not.

 

[theogt]

I wouldnt describe him as excellent in coverage...in fact one of the reasons Seattle let him walk was because they thought he was average at best vs the pass and played with limited range

he's had 5 in his career once (with us last yr)...he had 8 in 4yrs before that

I think he had a nice yr for us, but I dont think he's one of the best safety's in football, nor do I think what he did last yr couldnt be duplicated by someone else, especially if we are talking about the ultimate difference we'd see between hamlin at 40 mils and another guy at closer to the league average for a starting safety (or less)

David

In 2004 he had the 2nd best coverage statistics of all safeties.

This year, I'm not sure what his statistics are yet, but KC Joyner has said that they're very good. My guess is top 5 or so among safeties.

 

[dbair1967]

I can't believe you're actually having to defend the position that an INT has a bigger impact than a sack or a tackle for loss. Some people will argue anything, regardless of how stupid they sound.

Again, this isnt a hard concept Theo...it depends when it happens

is a int when your team is up by 3 or 4 tds a bigger impact play than a sack that stops a team at the end of a game where your up by 3 or 4pts? what if that TFL is on a goalline stand and your team wins by less than a TD, is that not a huge play? which play was bigger in the 92 super bowl, Ken Norton's stuff of Kennth Davis on the GL or Larry Browns end of the half int on a prayer down the sideline?

David

 

[theogt]

Again, this isnt a hard concept Theo...it depends when it happens

is a int when your team is up by 3 or 4 tds a bigger impact play than a sack that stops a team at the end of a game where your up by 3 or 4pts? what if that TFL is on a goalline stand and your team wins by less than a TD, is that not a huge play? which play was bigger in the 92 super bowl, Ken Norton's stuff of Kennth Davis on the GL or Larry Browns end of the half int on a prayer down the sideline?

David

Yes, and sometimes a simple tackle is more important than a passing TD. But you'd have to be BEYOND stupid to say that having 30 passing TDs was less impactful than having 60 tackles (which is essentially what you're doing).

Your crayon comment seems to be apropos. Get yours out. Can you show me how well you can color inside the lines?

 

[dbair1967]

I never said they were typically in the running for NFL MVP...although last years defensive MVP.....yep, you guessed it...a safety.

and its probably the least deserved major award in football history...there's no way he should have won it, the guy made almost no plays

Safety is a more important position now than it was 10 years ago...whether you like it or not.

its not that I dont like it, its just that it isnt true

David

 

[tomson75]

When teams start rolling out the NE four and five WR sets, do you want five 5'10 185 lb CB's covering them? What happens when that all important RB on the other team gets a draw and plows over three or four of them for six?

You want two 6'3" 250lb LB's on two 6'0" 200lb WR's that run a 4.3?

The passing tendencies of the good teams in the league dictate the need for good safeties. If you don't have them, well, we already know what happens.

 

[dbair1967]

But you'd have to be BEYOND stupid to say that having 30 passing TDs was less impactful than having 60 tackles (which is essentially what you're doing

Please show me where I have ever made that kind of point..I swear you argue just for the sake of arguing Theo...you've always done it on here, and your doing it again

Your crayon comment seems to be apropos. Get yours out. Can you some how well you can color inside the lines?

David

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Well he's apparently important enough to give a very large sum of money to. Apparently a sum that some posters on here wouldn't dish out to him because of his position. But hey, what do actual NFL front offices know?

a hell of alot more than you do

but not me, me is smahter

 

[tomson75]

its not that I dont like it, its just that it isnt true

David

You mean you just don't think he deserved it, correct?

 

[theogt]

David

The white flag.

 

[tomson75]

a hell of alot more than you do

but not me, me is smahter

Woot!

 

[percyhoward]

Wade has referred to Hamlin as the "quarterback of the defense," and said Hamlin has been calling him regularly this whole time to talk about the defense.

If what the coach says counts for anything.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The white flag.

I won't put my flag down

and surrender

I will go down w/ this ship

 

[TNCowboy]

But hey, what do actual NFL front offices know?

Thanks for making my point. It's evident that they value safety less than most positions, since they pay them less.

Hamlin is not an elite playmaker, by any stretch. He's a good, solid football player. Nothing more.

 

[Boysboy]

Wow-these Hamlin threads are actually LONGER than all these anti-Roy threads. LOL

No really-anyone who says how Hamlin "is only a decent safety" OR "isn't a top 10 safety" OR "is mediocre" OR blah, blah, blah is nothing but a blind-homer.

Just imagine if KEITH DAVIS was still playing that FS position. To clarify-when KEITH DAVIS was at FS, remember all those blown coverages and being exposed to the deep ball during the previous years. Do you REALLY want to go through with that...AGAIN?:bang2:

 

[theogt]

Please show me where I have ever made that kind of point..I swear you argue just for the sake of arguing Theo...you've always done it on here, and your doing it again

Ummm....

1. You said that Canty had a bigger impact because he had more sacks and TFLs than Hamlin had INTs.

2. Rampage said INTs are more impactful than sacks or TFLs.

3. You said that a sack or a TFL can possibly be more impactful than a INT.

 

[tomson75]

Thanks for making my point. It's evident that they value safety less than most positions, since they pay them less.

You do realize that this conversation is taking place because some people are against the fact that we're probably giving Hamlin a lot of money, don't you?

You're illustrating the antiquated notion that I'm referring to very well, thanks.

Hamlin is not an elite playmaker, by any stretch. He's a good, solid football player. Nothing more.

No one said he's elite. He is a playmaker however, and solid too. So yeah, he is 'something more'.

 

[Boysboy]

Ummm....

1. You said that Canty had a bigger impact because he had more sacks and TFLs than Hamlin had INTs.

2. Rampage said INTs are more impactful than sacks or TFLs.

3. You said that a sack or a TFL can possibly be more impactful than a INT.

To make a long story short...

If it weren't for Hamlin's presence...

1) The Fins game may have turned out differently(Sure-Green may have overthrown a wide open Chambers for 6, but I doubt Keith Davis would have been nowhere near anywhere, OTOH).

2) We might not have won @Philly(Eagles might have instead scored to tie it up 14-14 going into the half-instead, Hamlin's pick on that drive ultimately set up the beginning of the 3rd quarter where we ended up putting the nail in their season's coffin).

3) We likely would have been blown out @the Meadowlands(again-Hamlin made a key pick in the 1st half when the Giants' O was in full rhythm).

4) Favre would have successfully deep-balled us if Davis was in the secondary instead.

Folks-that could have been FOUR losses right there.

 

[theogt]

To make a long story short...

If it weren't for Hamlin's presence...

1) The Fins game may have turned out differently(Sure-Green may have overthrown a wide open Chambers for 6, but I doubt Keith Davis would have been nowhere near anywhere, OTOH).

2) We might not have won @Philly(Eagles might have instead scored to tie it up 14-14 going into the half-instead, Hamlin's pick on that drive ultimately set up the beginning of the 3rd quarter where we ended up putting the nail in their season's coffin).

3) We likely would have been blown out @the Meadowlands(again-Hamlin made a key pick in the 1st half when the Giants' O was in full rhythm).

4) Favre would have successfully deep-balled us if Davis was in the secondary instead.

Folks-that could have been FOUR losses right there.

Post more often.

 

[Boysboy]

Post more often.

Sure-will squeeze in one more...

Remember Hamlin was initially targetted by the Birds. So it was no coincidence that we franchised him.

Just imagine a Hamlin/Dawkins duo in their defensive backfield-Jim Johnson would be blitzing on every single play.

Again-be glad we tagged him.