Mike Mayocks last Mock just went live

[burmafrd]

No, his numbers weren't fine at all. His pair of 20-yard shuttles were one of the worst in his position group and about 0.25 slower than Poe. It was reported he only did 19 reps on the bench and 21 at his pro day, which is really low for a guy who's supposed to throw OL around.

everytime they talk aobut his 40 someone needs to remind them of THESE numbers.

And as regards his size and weight; big deal.

 

[SMCowboy]

Maybe I'm stating this incorrectly. I feel that you should go by college production and measurables. Brockers was only solid against the run and his combine was disappointing (even though he improved slightly at his pro day). As far as Ware, he was productive player. I didn't have any issues with his selection, but I had a problem with Spears.

Here is the thing, some fans on here may not want to hear this. But while a Marcus Spears would not be a great pick at #14, he wouldn't be a bad pick at #14 and he absolutely would be a good pick at #23.

Take a look at the draft that Marcus Spears was in. Below are the 5 players taken before, and the 5 players taken after Marcus Spears:
5 Players taken before Marcus Spears
Derrick Johnson
Travis Johnson - No longer in football
David Pollack - No Longer in football
Erasmus James - No Longer in football
Alex Barron - No Longer in football

5 players taken after Marcus Spears
Matt Jones - No Longer in football
Mark Clayton
Fabian Washington - No Longer in football
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell

And if you look at the previous drafts before then, while not as many players are out of the league, you will see alot of the same, in the 10 picks after #14, you will see 1 or 2 true stars, 1 or 2 really good absolute starters, and the rest top roll players, with a hand full out of football.

While a sure fire run stuffing DE, in and of itself is not a great pick at #14 when you look back at history, it is not near as bad of a pick as people think it is. Then when you take into account the upside the a Michael Brockers has (easy top 5 pick quality of player), you have a whole different set of circumstances.

 

[SMCowboy]

No, his numbers weren't fine at all. His pair of 20-yard shuttles were one of the worst in his position group and about 0.25 slower than Poe. It was reported he only did 19 reps on the bench and 21 at his pro day, which is really low for a guy who's supposed to throw OL around.

His 21, or even 19 reps on the bench press is actually very good for a guy with arms as long as his.

As for his other times he significantly improved on all of them at his Pro Day....

 

[kmd24]

If I were just going by the pre-draft press conference, I'd say it's unlikely that Dallas would select Brockers at 14.

• It's likely he fails to meet the measurables they expect from the position at that point in the draft.
• It's been reported that some teams found him immature and lacking intelligence during combine interviews.
• With hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars on the line, he put up terrible numbers at the combine.
• Brockers definitely projects to be a starter eventually, but his conditioning and the fact that he was a 2-down player at LSU mean he might be a role player early on.

Honestly, given the choice between Brockers and Poe, I'd take Poe based on what I've read about the two leading up to the draft, and I'm not entirely sold on Poe.

 

[31smackdown]

The advantage of taking Brockers to me is to have a better rotation and keep Ratliff fresh for third downs. The one thing I like about Brockers is that he does a good job of knowing when to get his hand up to disrupt the throw

 

[cowboysooner]

Brockers has not been sliding past 15 this whole draft. If Philly does not trade up to take Cox, they are going to take Brockers. Brockers lets their undersized defensive ends to not have to worry as much about the run. He keeps their formerly craptastic linebacking corp cleaner and makes an off tackle run more difficult. Their 1 technique nearly died and their 3 technique is 31. He is Red Bryant. Plus Andy Reid loves linemen in the 1st.

 

[kmd24]

His 21, or even 19 reps on the bench press is actually very good for a guy with arms as long as his.

Not really. There were probably a dozen guys at the combine with 34.5" - 35.5" arm length who did many more reps than 19 and only a handful of guys (6?) did fewer than 19.

 

[Miller]

Saw the Mock draft NFL network was doing with all the host making the selection and Irvin made the Cowboys pick and takes CB Stephon Gilmore

I like that better than Brockers

 

[Doomsday101]

I like that better than Brockers

Not looking for the better of 2 evils. :laugh2:

 

[Miller]

Not looking for the better of 2 evils. :laugh2:

True but I'm all about trying secondary until it works.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

[*]It's been reported that some teams found him immature and lacking intelligence during combine interviews.

Honestly, given the choice between Brockers and Poe, I'd take Poe based on what I've read about the two leading up to the draft, and I'm not entirely sold on Poe.

Yeah this is a problem that bothered me a bit, whereas it is said that Poe actually got through interviews very well.

If we are going with potential, which we would be doing with Brockers, Poe has way more upside with his ability to play NT and DE.

But the sad thing is having to talk about these two instead of a guy like Barron.

 

[Picksix]

'POTENTIAL' at #14 overall.

Not thanks, give me 'PRODUCTION' at #14.

And I can't just let it pass when the team makes what I feel is an obviously dumb move.

I couldn't do it in 2009 either, sue me!

So then, we should draft Kellen Moore? Can't think of anyone who was more productive in college than him.

 

[Randy White]

I just think it's funny in all honesty. I like Decastro better myself but I value a DL more than a guard and it's going to be good to know that the Cowboys do too. Im curious as to how many fan on here would not want Marcel Dareus with the reasoning they are using for not wanting Brockers.

Well, let me take up that cause. I have nothing against Brocker. Like just about every top 5 lineman in this draft he's been projected to go from top 5 pick overall ( including myself in one of my mocks to Tampa ) to all the way to #19 to Chicago. There's absolutely no denying his physical talents.

Having said that, here's the argument. His position on the current Cowboys defensive system doesn't call for a 3 down defender. Dallas rotates D-linemen frequently, depending on the match up and game plan, so he probably wouldn't be on the field as much as other positions. He hasn't shown he's a top flight pass rusher as an interior lineman ( ala Ratt ), something that scouts have noticed with Fletcher Cox, for example, and why Cox has rocketed into the top 10. Basically, we might be getting a player who's great against the run and " hopefully " can develop into another Richard Seymour at some point in the future. The problems with that last part are:

a) the last two LSU defensive linemen taken as top 10 picks, Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey, have been basically busts, so far, and they were taking using that same line of " the next Seymor " thinking ( more Jackson then Dorsey in that respect ). And Jackson was taken by a reputable GM: Scott Pioli. I'm fully aware that previous busts from a school does not transfer to future busts automatically, but it is something that must be looked at because systems do tend to overhype/overvalue players at times ( Penn St running backs in the past ? )

b) " stopping the run " is not as important as it used to be in the past. I'm not saying " it's not important ", just that it's not as vital as it once was due to the new league wide passing philosophy and the rules that favor QBs and receivers.

So, the way it could be looked at is that either DeCastro, or Barron, or even Kirkpatrick would represent a better value for the Cowboys because they'd not only be filling an area of need, but would be contributing more than a 3-4 DE which is what Brocker would be in Dallas.

Just putting it out there..

 

[TheCount]

Great point.

Work ethic are intelligence are two values that enabled Tyron Smith to succeed last year. He was raw as can be, but the team knew that he could learn and would work hard. I really didn't like Tyron last year, but was dead wrong about the guy because he had intangibles that you can't measure through a computer screen.

If Brockers also has those values, then run to the podium w/ the pick.

Well yeah, that and oddles of athletic and physical talent.

When it comes to Brockers, I look at him a lot like Terrance Cody (except of course that Cody was taken in the 2nd round, not 14th overall, which makes it much easier to stomach), he's going to need time to season before doing much of anything. The difference is that while Brockers showed up to the combine heavy and didn't perform well athletically, for some odd reason it's raising his stock instead of lowering it like it did for Cody. Figure that one out.

People see what they want to see. Jimmy Graham shows up blows up the league, you see Graham's everywhere in the draft. Egnew, Fleener, Hannah, etc. Watt shows up, now he's everywhere. Brockers, Cox, Still. It happens every year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And some scouts say he is a possible steal in the teens because next year he is potentially top 5 - 10

And some don't. I just remember your take last year on Murray. I still cannot quite get over how completely wrong you were.

 

[28 Joker]

If the Cowboys draft Michael Brockers, I'm fine with it. I like him, and he's a very talented, young, gifted defensive lineman.

The team needs one, bad.

Peter Konz is still lurking. He falls to round 2 in this mock. If he falls within striking distance, I have to believe that the Cowboys will fight to trade up for him.

 

[CATCH17]

And some don't. I just remember your take last year on Murray. I still cannot quite get over how completely wrong you were.

And i've been so right about others like this guy right here

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191058

or this one

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218418

Just 2 of the many

All I remember about you is how much you just loooooved Tavaris Jackson.


Either way im not sold on Brockers. I haven't seen enough of him to put the CATCH17 stamp of approval on him but i've seen enough people in the know say that he is a player.

You've proved a good point though Fuzzy. Even the best, such as myself, can be wrong sometimes.

 

[jterrell]

Well, let me take up that cause. I have nothing against Brocker. Like just about every top 5 lineman in this draft he's been projected to go from top 5 pick overall ( including myself in one of my mocks to Tampa ) to all the way to #19 to Chicago. There's absolutely no denying his physical talents.

Having said that, here's the argument. His position on the current Cowboys defensive system doesn't call for a 3 down defender. Dallas rotates D-linemen frequently, depending on the match up and game plan, so he probably wouldn't be on the field as much as other positions. He hasn't shown he's a top flight pass rusher as an interior lineman ( ala Ratt ), something that scouts have noticed with Fletcher Cox, for example, and why Cox has rocketed into the top 10. Basically, we might be getting a player who's great against the run and " hopefully " can develop into another Richard Seymour at some point in the future. The problems with that last part are:

a) the last two LSU defensive linemen taken as top 10 picks, Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey, have been basically busts, so far, and they were taking using that same line of " the next Seymor " thinking ( more Jackson then Dorsey in that respect ). And Jackson was taken by a reputable GM: Scott Pioli. I'm fully aware that previous busts from a school does not transfer to future busts automatically, but it is something that must be looked at because systems do tend to overhype/overvalue players at times ( Penn St running backs in the past ? )

b) " stopping the run " is not as important as it used to be in the past. I'm not saying " it's not important ", just that it's not as vital as it once was due to the new league wide passing philosophy and the rules that favor QBs and receivers.

So, the way it could be looked at is that either DeCastro, or Barron, or even Kirkpatrick would represent a better value for the Cowboys because they'd not only be filling an area of need, but would be contributing more than a 3-4 DE which is what Brocker would be in Dallas.

Just putting it out there..

Good stuff.
Let me rebut.

Brockers may not be an elite pass rusher a la Fletcher but he can still "effect" the pass rush mightily.

Let me toss a name at you: Leon Lett. New DL coach and 6'6" DT who pushed the pocket and got his hands up. Only had 22 sacks for his career but boosted our pass rush. And he was a rotational guy.

Right now our run stuffers get zero push at all. They don't get double teamed or get any pressure. In fact they occasionally get left unblocked at all.

Brockers has a nice get off the line on tape and he brings 320+ pounds when he does. He plays a bit high and lacks top end speed but he gets a fairly consistently push and gets his hands up well. He is a threat to block kicks on special teams as well.

End of the day I like the guy's upside and his right now. You can play him on 3rd and 1 or 2nd and 15. He'll be pushing someone into the back field either way. He is a definitely upgrade imho over any DL we have save Ratliff and may be an upgrade over Ratliff very shortly.

Dallas needs a push up the middle to make life easier for our OLBs. When a QB is forced to move outside Ware destroys them. But if they can consistently step up in the pocket that is tough.

It is really too bad Stanford and LSU didn't play this year. An entire game of DeCastro versus Brockers would be scouting gold. Just another reason to hate our crap Bowl and BCS systems....

 

[Woods]

Well, let me take up that cause. I have nothing against Brocker. Like just about every top 5 lineman in this draft he's been projected to go from top 5 pick overall ( including myself in one of my mocks to Tampa ) to all the way to #19 to Chicago. There's absolutely no denying his physical talents.

Having said that, here's the argument. His position on the current Cowboys defensive system doesn't call for a 3 down defender. Dallas rotates D-linemen frequently, depending on the match up and game plan, so he probably wouldn't be on the field as much as other positions. He hasn't shown he's a top flight pass rusher as an interior lineman ( ala Ratt ), something that scouts have noticed with Fletcher Cox, for example, and why Cox has rocketed into the top 10. Basically, we might be getting a player who's great against the run and " hopefully " can develop into another Richard Seymour at some point in the future. The problems with that last part are:

a) the last two LSU defensive linemen taken as top 10 picks, Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey, have been basically busts, so far, and they were taking using that same line of " the next Seymor " thinking ( more Jackson then Dorsey in that respect ). And Jackson was taken by a reputable GM: Scott Pioli. I'm fully aware that previous busts from a school does not transfer to future busts automatically, but it is something that must be looked at because systems do tend to overhype/overvalue players at times ( Penn St running backs in the past ? )

b) " stopping the run " is not as important as it used to be in the past. I'm not saying " it's not important ", just that it's not as vital as it once was due to the new league wide passing philosophy and the rules that favor QBs and receivers.

So, the way it could be looked at is that either DeCastro, or Barron, or even Kirkpatrick would represent a better value for the Cowboys because they'd not only be filling an area of need, but would be contributing more than a 3-4 DE which is what Brocker would be in Dallas.

Just putting it out there..

I agree with a lot of your points.

My issue is that I think we can get a very good 34 DE in Round 2 or 3 who can be a solid run stuffer, power player, and help collapse the pocket.

Does that role command the use of the 14th overall pick?

Now, if the Cowboys brass believes that Brockers is significantly better than guys like Kirkpatrick, Upshaw, Ingram, Gilmore, Poe, etc., and significantly better value than a DE they can get in Round 2 and 3, then I can understand staying at 14 and making the pick.

I guess I don't yet appreciate that Brockers commands that 14th overall pick.

EDIT: But I have to admit that if teams including the Pats and Eagles are interested in this player, then I must be missing how special he is at that spot in the Draft . . . . .

 

[Fredd]

Mayock's list lost credibility with me as soon as I saw Richardson going #5, and Claiborne #6...I can see teams jumping up to #3 to get either one of those and Cleveland will take Richardson if he is there at #4 anyway....