MMQB - The NFL’s Top 21 Quarterbacks for the Rest of 2017

[mcmvp]

I have never understood the Newton love affair. Never.

Me neither. I'd take Dak 10 times out of 10 over him. Newton has maturity issues.

 

[visionary]

Way better weapons?

- Blount is better than Elliott?
- There is no reason to think their OL is more talented than ours. They are playing better but I attribute that more to coaching/scheme. Would anyone trade their OL with ours, straight up?
- Their WRs are much better than ours? Yeah, I am not exactly buying that.

The one big difference is probably TE. Simply because Witten is at the end of his career and not nearly as mobile as he once was. Ertz is a real pass catching threat for them.

RB no
OL no but this was already in place
WRs theirs are much better. Dez is not a elite WR and we gave no speed.
TEs are way way better

The point is that after last year our FO sat on their hands while Philly upgraded
Their defense was already way better than ours and it's nit close this year

Regarding coaching, I'm sure you are familiar with my views in Garrett and Marinelli

 

[visionary]

3rd downs are largely correlated to first and second down performance. The Eagles rushing game has been excellent this season.

And Dak's QBR is higher than Wentz's.

What Wentz has going for him, besides a really good O-Line is a great defense. Dak has had great O-Line play in his rookie year, but has yet to have had even a pretty good defense paired alongside it.

And yet Wentz is still not playing as well this season as Dak did in his rookie year and is still behind him in QBR this season with a shaky O-Line, a RB that has been under a suspension watch all season and all of the collateral issues that have come with that (less 11 personnel, more shotgun dink-n-dunk, etc).

I think Wentz has made a nice improvement this season, but coordinators have yet to get a grasp of how the PHI offense has changed given Wentz's improvements. If you watch their game against Carolina, he really struggled badly against the blitz, but then Kuechly went out and CAR stopped blitzing. I think he's only really comfortable making a second read to Ertz and with Thomas Davis and Kuechly taking on Ertz it's easy to see why the blitz gave him troubles.

I just don't think at this point anybody can reasonably rank Wentz ahead of Dak regardless of criteria and I believe that there is likely a regression for Wentz soon once the league gets a better handle on how to defend the progression he has made.





YR

I agree with most if what you say but third down conversion is HUGE

 

[Sydla]

RB no
OL no but this was already in place
WRs theirs are much better. Dez is not a elite WR and we gave no speed.
TEs are way way better

The point is that after last year our FO sat on their hands while Philly upgraded
Their defense was already way better than ours and it's nit close this year

Regarding coaching, I'm sure you are familiar with my views in Garrett and Marinelli

Yeah, no way Jeffrey, Smith, Agholor, Hollins is significantly better than Bryant, Williams, Beasley and Butler.

Sure their FO made improvements. But they had nowhere to go but up at WR given their 2016 WRs were the worst in football.

 

[mcmvp]

Yeah, no way Jeffrey, Smith, Agholor, Hollins is significantly better than Bryant, Williams, Beasley and Butler.

Sure their FO made improvements. But they had nowhere to go but up at WR given their 2016 WRs were the worst in football.

Hard to say which team has the better WRs this year. Jeffery was a big upgrade, but Smith has been underwhelming so far outside of one big play. The real upgrade has been moving Agholor to the slot. He was inside of his own head the first couple seasons...but he’s playing with confidence now.

I still feel Bryant is a good receiver,and the others are solid. I honestly can’t say which team has the advantage… Unlike last season

 

[Gameover]

I’m not saying it’s a stretch to say he is playing better than Dak right now.

My argument is that wentz is 6 and Dak is 15. That’s 9 spots different. Also, part of the reason the writer puts Dak at 15 is due to a “small sample size”. However Dak’s sample size is the same as Wentz. So
That argument loses merit.

Daks sample size is actually greater

They wanted Wentz up there

I personally think Dak is best QB in the league.

No homer:
I've never liked Dez Bryant
Witten has always been overrated to me
I think Zeke is vastly overrated

No homer. Maybe wrong. But it's my opinion

 

[Sydla]

Hard to say which team has the better WRs this year. Jeffery was a big upgrade, but Smith has been underwhelming so far outside of one big play. The real upgrade has been moving Agholor to the slot. He was inside of his own head the first couple seasons...but he’s playing with confidence now.

I still feel Bryant is a good receiver,and the others are solid. I honestly can’t say which team has the advantage… Unlike last season

I'd say pretty equal.

 

[Gameover]

their third down rate is so good because they give him high percentage looks on third down

Similar to Witten last yr for Prescott

They've done a great job of getting a receiver open in his clear passing lane(vision). Something that Garrett didn't do for Romo, in that playoff loss to the Giants. Every route was 15+ yards downfield in the fourth quarter of that game.

Put a receiver in the QBs face. Make it easy for him.

 

[HungryLion]

Daks sample size is actually greater

They wanted Wentz up there

I personally think Dak is best QB in the league.

No homer:
I've never liked Dez Bryant
Witten has always been overrated to me
I think Zeke is vastly overrated

No homer. Maybe wrong. But it's my opinion

Sample size equal as in number of games
Played. Not their performance in those games.

 

[Gameover]

Sample size equal as in number of games
Played. Not their performance in those games.

I'm going on performance. And that sample isn't close

 

[JJHLH1]

This list is a joke. Here is a better list based on real stats, not some writer’s opinion.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

 

[mcmvp]

This list is a joke. Here is a better list based on real stats, not some writer’s opinion.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

I don’t necessarily agree with the MMQB list, but I’ve never been a fan of QBR. Any formula that has Brees ranked outside of the top 10 is clearly flawed.

 

[diefree666]

Daks sample size is actually greater

They wanted Wentz up there

I personally think Dak is best QB in the league.

No homer:
I've never liked Dez Bryant
Witten has always been overrated to me
I think Zeke is vastly overrated

No homer. Maybe wrong. But it's my opinion

considering your hatred of Romo any QB opinion from you is pretty much toilet paper

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Btw you're posting almost exclusively in favor of Wentz and the Eagles on this forum. Just an observation but odd that logical actions offend your sensibilities so much that you feel the need to constantly defend them. Unless of course that's the only reason you're here in the first place.

Bingo! Mcmvp is another Eagles troll.

 

[waving monkey]

He hasn't taken a step back this season. He threw 23 tds last year, he's on pace to throw 35. He has 4 ints, 2 on tipped passes. To have his completion percentage when not one ore vastly f his receivers gets separation is amazing.

His mechanics are vastly improved and he's reading defense more accurate but hey dark has lost three games cause dark plays in a vacuum

 

[ghst187]

The list sucks.

Eli, Kirk and Jameis above Dak?

I wouldn’t take either of those 3 over Dak for this season.

**** of here.

Also, Wentz that high on the list? He has been good but that far ahead of Dak? Both second year players and their stats are almost identical.

Laughable.

Yeah I'm so sick of the double standards... last year it was that Dak would be rated higher if he had played more than one season all the while rating Wentz and Winston and a few others purely based on potential and expectations of performance to come. This year it's more of the same...yeah Dak has been great but he needs more games with with level of play while they put no asterisks by Wentz and feel free to rate him highly despite having much fewer games with Daks level of play.
I'm also still unsure why any of these idiotic rankings keep putting Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, Mariotta, and Eli so high. Essentially there is Brady, Rodgers, and Brees...and everyone else.
In previous years I would put Roth as next but he may be losing his touch or something. Anyone putting Luck near those first three guys is a fool or ranking based on hype. After those first three (or four) there are a bunch of quality starters and quality youngsters that aren't really worth trying to rank because it's arguable at best whether any of them are better than the others (even if a few have rings). I would say Dak is def in this tier with potential for more. Wentz too. Cousins is here but I don't think he will ever go any higher. Ryan, Winston, Mariotta, Wilson, Eli, Luck, Goff etc.
Then there is probably a group of quality but slightly lesser guys, Siemien, Rivers, Dalton, Bradford, Palmer, etc.
Then there's three teams who have garbage... Jags, 49ers, Browns, Jets,


Bottom line: I think it's hard to rank the guys in that second tier of QBs, but if you insist on trying, no way there are 14 better QBs than Dak.

 

[mcmvp]

Bottom line: I think it's hard to rank the guys in that second tier of QBs, but if you insist on trying, no way there are 14 better QBs than Dak.

Agreed

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I agree with most if what you say but third down conversion is HUGE

Never said it isn't huge.

But, it's statistically correlated to 1st and 2nd down performance. In fact, teams that historically struggle on 3rd down but perform well on 1st and 2nd down are extremely likely to start converting 3rd downs. Conversely, teams that play great on 3rd downs despite struggling on 1st and 2nd downs are very likely to start struggling on 3rd downs sooner or later.

Using 3rd down conversion to evaluate a QB's performance is ill-conceived. It's more of a team metric than anything else.





YR

 

[Aven8]

Winston and Eli? And Flacco before Watson???

Do these writers even watch football anymore??

 

[Sydla]

Never said it isn't huge.

But, it's statistically correlated to 1st and 2nd down performance. In fact, teams that historically struggle on 3rd down but perform well on 1st and 2nd down are extremely likely to start converting 3rd downs. Conversely, teams that play great on 3rd downs despite struggling on 1st and 2nd downs are very likely to start struggling on 3rd downs sooner or later.

Using 3rd down conversion to evaluate a QB's performance is ill-conceived. It's more of a team metric than anything else.





YR

But they aren't just using the Eagles conversion rate on 3rd down. They are using Wentz's actual stats on 3rd down and he's the highest rated QB in football on third down.