Moore: Cowboys Don't Intend To Pick Up Option On Claiborne

[ABQCOWBOY]

Didn't Dallas draft him to play man and even say they were going to use him to his strengths? What changed there?

We might have said that but that's not what I saw. I mean, I can believe that this might have been the idea and it would make sense because we brought in Carr, who is essentially the same kind of player but that's not what I saw.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We played almost solely press before we drafted him. And we played press his rookie year under Ryan.

Since we don't and thus the questionable fit.

I don't agree. When Ryan was here, we played some zero and some press but it was not our base coverage scheme. If you are going to take this guy, you would think that you would use him in a scheme that would best suit his abilities. That has not happened.

We disagree.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Not really. I never liked the pick. The book on Mo, at the time was pretty clear. Man to man press guy. Never impressd me in zone. Good with his hands off the line, used his size to his advantage and his long arms to bat down a lot of balls. Not very good hands thou. We didn't play a lot of press man and we still don't. I never understood moving up to get this player and then taking away his best attribute, which is his punch off the line and his ability to make his size work for him in press. If you wish to believe that it is a hindsight thing, that's fine but I was on record about it then and my opinions haven't really changed. The best thing that could happen to Mo is to go to a team that would use him in a way he is best suited IMO.

Also he wasn't billed as just a man to man press guy. His scouting reports also said he was very good in off coverage and zone.

I think you're "misremembering" things about MO.

I've also never seen a guy labeled as having elite ball skills but bad hands. Another thing I believe fabricated.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Also he wasn't billed as just a man to man press guy. His scouting reports also said he was very good in off coverage and zone.

I think you're "misremembering" things about MO.

But if you watched him, he was never as good in Zone as he was in press. I don't know what his scouting report said but I know that when I watched him, he didn't impress me in Zone coverage. I think this is kinda what we've seen in the NFL as well.

I'm not misremembering anything. I just watched the player play and didn't buy into scouting reports. This is what I saw.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

But if you watched him, he was never as good in Zone as he was in press. I don't know what his scouting report said but I know that when I watched him, he didn't impress me in Zone coverage. I think this is kinda what we've seen in the NFL as well.

Just relaying what the book... universally.... was on him.

 

[Tabascocat]

We might have said that but that's not what I saw. I mean, I can believe that this might have been the idea and it would make sense because we brought in Carr, who is essentially the same kind of player but that's not what I saw.

No, you saw it right, both Carr and Mo were moved to a more coverage scheme even though their strengths are man. I am simply asking why they did that? Was it to cover for poor safety play or lack of a rush?

No reason to bring them in for one scheme then completely change it. Yes, there was a mixture of coverages but not enough man IMO. Often, Mo played way too far off the ball at the line.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Just relaying what the book... universally.... was on him.

And what have your eyes told you? You wanna argue the point, that's fine but I'm not lying about what I thought at the time and what I believe now.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And what have your eyes told you? You wanna argue the point, that's fine but I'm not lying about what I thought at the time and what I believe now.

You should be a scout.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No, you saw it right, both Carr and Mo were moved to a more coverage scheme even though their strengths are man. I am simply asking why they did that? Was it to cover for poor safety play or lack of a rush?

No reason to bring them in for one scheme then completely change it. Yes, there was a mixture of coverages but not enough man IMO. Often, Mo played way too far off the ball at the line.

Honestly, I don't know. I have never been able to figure out why we did what we did at CB. We moved up to take a Press Cover and then we paid good money to bring in a guy who played Press Man well but has never really been that great in off coverage. I don't know dex. I have never been able to figure that out.

 

[xwalker]

That would be like trying to sweep a Hippo under a welcome mat.

ddd

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You should be a scout.

Yeah, maybe.

 

[big dog cowboy]

We have to hit on a CB this year in the draft. Mo and Carr should be gone next year.

OScan, Patmon and White is pretty thin.

That is why I have been saying for several weeks we could go CB with our first pick pretty easily.

 

[Tabascocat]

Whatever happens to Claiborne, I am hoping for the best yet prepared for the worst. Hopefully, he smarts off to Hardy and, in turn, he whips him into shape

 

[xwalker]

I think he was a terrible pick at the time. He never fit our scheme. Part of the problem, with Mo IMO, is that he needs to be playing in a scheme that uses his size to play more press. I never thought he would be a guy who excelled in zone. If he went to a team who used him right, allowed him to be physical at the LOS and played that scheme, I think he would be much better. That's not us and I don't see it being us in the near future.

Even in man, teams would have 2 WRs on the same side of the formation and have them cross paths for a legal pick type play and Claiborne would usually have problems with that that of play. You need to be able to switch to zone on occasion when offenses run those plays; otherwise, they'll be able to run routes that always delay 1 of the 2 CB on that side for an easy completion.

If there was just him and 1 WR on the field, he would be at least reasonably good in coverage. Just line up and play with Zero thinking involved.

The 6 on the Wonderlic should have been a warning to the Cowboys.

 

[jterrell]

I don't agree. When Ryan was here, we played some zero and some press but it was not our base coverage scheme. If you are going to take this guy, you would think that you would use him in a scheme that would best suit his abilities. That has not happened.

We disagree.

Ryan is a man press guy. He mixed in zone because we had injuries, namely to the nickel CB, Scandrick. But his bread and butter is man press CBs and bringing pressure(not shockingly much like his Dad and brother). He couldn't do that here nearly as often as we liked which is a big reason the front office gave for going to a Tampa version of the 4-3 and hiring Kiffin. --that health was too important in the man press, 3-4. We need to simplify.

Mo has openly complained since Ryan left that he is now in zone and not man.

Nothing wrong with differing opinions but some things are actual facts and are verifiable thus no need for an opinion at all.
It is very much a fact Mo was drafted by a man press team.

And it is a fact he was universally lauded coming out as the top defender in that draft.

Going up in a draft is always risky and odds say not to do it but Mo, like Dez and Emmitt, were tremendous values where selected.

Sometimes you do the right thing and it doesn't work out.

Maybe 1 in 10 1st round picks live up to fan expectations.

In hindsight there were red flags: his wrist was injured, he wasn't very smart according to the wonderlic, he wasn't good versus the run.
But that's all hindsight. Very few people were suggesting those things when he was drafted.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Even in man, teams would have 2 WRs on the same side of the formation and have them cross paths for a legal pick type play and Claiborne would usually have problems with that that of play. You need to be able to switch to zone on occasion when offenses run those plays; otherwise, they'll be able to run routes that always delay 1 of the 2 CB on that side for an easy completion.

If there was just him and 1 WR on the field, he would be at least reasonably good in coverage. Just line up and play with Zero thinking involved.

The 6 on the Wonderlic should have been a warning to the Cowboys.

Yeah. I mean, if we decided to go to Press tomorrow, I'm confident that Mo would be a better player for us. I just don't think that's ever going to be in our plans and I'm kinda happy about that because that hopefully means that Marinelli is still running things. He's just not a great fit for what we do IMO. I would really like to see him figure it out and improve because he does have talent. I just don't know that he ever will.

 

[xwalker]

That is why I have been saying for several weeks we could go CB with our first pick pretty easily.

I see the CBs in this draft as:

Top 5 (I have Eric Rowe a #5)
Mid Tier
Late rounds

The any of the top 5 can be really good and can be big contributors as rookies, IMO.

There are a few late round, small school guys that have high upsides but probably need time to develop.

Then there is the mid tier where they are all limited, IMO. Size, lack of top speed, limited hip flexibility, etc..

I expect the top 4 to go in the 1st round and all 5 to be gone by early/mid 2nd.

 

[xwalker]

Yeah. I mean, if we decided to go to Press tomorrow, I'm confident that Mo would be a better player for us. I just don't think that's ever going to be in our plans and I'm kinda happy about that because that hopefully means that Marinelli is still running things. He's just not a great fit for what we do IMO. I would really like to see him figure it out and improve because he does have talent. I just don't know that he ever will.

I feel like Marinelli is getting away from the pure Tampa-2. They used more single-high last year. In some games they played primarily man, although not always press man.

Now there are the rumors that they want to try a hybrid position (OTTO) which would be another variation from what he has done in the past. I have not heard any confirmation on the OTTO concept other than the BTB website, but someone posted that the DC.com guys mentioned it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ryan is a man press guy. He mixed in zone because we had injuries, namely to the nickel CB, Scandrick. But his bread and butter is man press CBs and bringing pressure(not shockingly much like his Dad and brother). He couldn't do that here nearly as often as we liked which is a big reason the front office gave for going to a Tampa version of the 4-3 and hiring Kiffin. --that health was too important in the man press, 3-4. We need to simplify.

Mo has openly complained since Ryan left that he is now in zone and not man.

Nothing wrong with differing opinions but some things are actual facts and are verifiable thus no need for an opinion at all.
It is very much a fact Mo was drafted by a man press team.

And it is a fact he was universally lauded coming out as the top defender in that draft.

Going up in a draft is always risky and odds say not to do it but Mo, like Dez and Emmitt, were tremendous values where selected.

Sometimes you do the right thing and it doesn't work out.

Maybe 1 in 10 1st round picks live up to fan expectations.

In hindsight there were red flags: his wrist was injured, he wasn't very smart according to the wonderlic, he wasn't good versus the run.
But that's all hindsight. Very few people were suggesting those things when he was drafted.

Ryan was a man press guy but that's not really what he did here. I don't know if it was because we didn't have a very good pass rush or if it was just overall personnel or what. He did go to zero and for a little while, that worked but it didn't take long to figure it out. I suspect that the reason Ryan didn't play more of what he did in the past or why he didn't last is because he runs a pretty complicated scheme. It could be as simple as the players not being able to implement what he wanted. Either way, and I don't disagree with you about what Ryan likes to do, but in Dallas he did not do the same things he did in Cleveland. When he came here, I thought he was going to finally go to a Press Coverage, high pressure type defense, like what we saw in Philly in the 80s and 90s. He didn't really do that.

I can tell you with 100% assurance thou. I never like the Mo pick. Not because I didn't think he was a good prospect. I just didn't like what we had to spend to get him and the players who were still on the board that I thought were good value.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I feel like Marinelli is getting away from the pure Tampa-2. They used more single-high last year. In some games they played primarily man, although not always press man.

Now there are the rumors that they want to try a hybrid position (OTTO) which would be another variation from what he has done in the past. I have not heard any confirmation on the OTTO concept other than the BTB website, but someone posted that the DC.com guys mentioned it.

I agree with this. Now, will it change? It could once he has the opportunity acquire more talent to suit his scheme. However, he's never going to play tight man press, which IMO, is the best fit for our Starting CBs. JMO