More criticism of Julius Jones

[Thick 'N Hearty]

Exactly right! When Jones was a rookie, he ran much better than he did last season. In fact his vision was what impressed me the most about him as a rookie, that seemed to be gone last year but I'm hoping the new coaches will allow him to run more instinctively and utilize his strengths rather than try to make him play a certain style.

Go back to the Chicago game that year (the one Henson started). You'll see some awesome runs by Jones that were on instinct, not Parcellism. That's the JuJo we want to see. Find the hole and go through it. The basic instinct of man.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Excellent reply.

I dont normally agree with most of what you say, but I can not really argue here.

I hope it turns out Parcells built a core of players that will make Dallas contenders for years to come. I will not care what he accomplished while he was here as long as his core turns out to be elite caliber.

was it because I said it was ok to blame Parcells?

 

[Use Your Illusion]

Wow. All this and you didn't refute a single thing I said.

What am I supposed to refute? All you did was post some numbers. The stats are the stats, I'm not going to pretend like they don't exist. I'm telling you it isn't as cut and dry as just posting stats. There's reasons the stats are the way they are and that is what I explained.

 

[gbrittain]

was it because I said it was ok to blame Parcells?

Not not at all...but it did not hurt.

I was actually more referring to what you were talking about in regards to the scheme.

 

[theogt]

What am I supposed to refute? All you did was post some numbers. The stats are the stats, I'm not going to pretend like they don't exist. I'm telling you it isn't as cut and dry as just posting stats. There's reasons the stats are the way they are and that is what I explained.

You only explained that one player had 8 seasons before Parcells, which apparently is why his numbers were lower. Other than that, nothing.

 

[jay cee]

Not that this will make any difference, because arguing Julius is like arguing politics or religion, but I thought it was interesting that Tony Sparano, in that interview posted somewhere here, mentioned two players he felt still had room to grow and create matchup problems for defenses: Jason Witten and Julius Jones. He didn't mention Barber at all.

Hmm, I wonder why not?

Everyone on the anti-Julius side of the argument overdramatizes Parcells' insistence on Julius going forward instead of juking and trusting his blocking as "Telling him to run into piles". Of course Parcells didn't tell him to run into piles. But has anyone here ever played running back, even on a small level? If you have, wouldn't you know it's not so outlandish to accept a coach insisting, "******, don't bounce it outside! We're blocking for the 5-hole, hit the *#%@$@* 5-hole!!!"

And sometimes the 5-hole doesn't get blocked. But you run it there anyway, because that's what your coach told you to do.

Why do some people find that so hard to believe? I don't understand it.

It doesn't fit their agenda.

 

[Thick 'N Hearty]

It doesn't fit their agenda.

It also doesn't allow for creativity on the RB's part. If you run it to the 5, since that's what was talked about, and it doesn't work 5-6 times in a row, why keep going there? Because the coach said so? Does he have a vantage point that the runner doesn't have? I don't think so. But if JuJo was running out of fear instead of instinct, he wasn't running to his strength. Who is BP to dictate to a player what their strength is? I know he's a HoF coach, but last time I checked, the Bible didn't put him in the list of the all-knowings.

 

[gimmesix]

I really have to wonder if you might be correct here. Even I ( ) at some point can't blame Parcells for everything. Julius missed a LOT of holes last year. Why didn't Barber?

Parcells complained last season about Barber being too much of a freelancer. Perhaps that explains why he found holes when the line didn't produce them, and also at least partly explains why he wasn't the starter.

Julius has said this off-season that he did what he was told. Per Parcells, Barber did not.

 

[Use Your Illusion]

You only explained that one player had 8 seasons before Parcells, which apparently is why his numbers were lower. Other than that, nothing.

And that Curtis Martin and Rodney Hampton, the other two most successful backs Parcells has had, played the majority of their careers away from Parcells. That would skew the stats a little, no?

 

[theogt]

And that Curtis Martin and Rodney Hampton, the other two most successful backs Parcells has had, played the majority of their careers away from Parcells. That would skew the stats a little, no?

No, not at all. We're talking about YPC. That's an average. It doesn't matter how many years they played under either.

 

[jterrell]

Julius can break tackles just fine. According to STATS LLC, his percentage of rushes with a broken tackle ranked 12th out of the 27 backs with at least 200 carries last season. He finished ahead of Willie Parker, Ladell Betts, Larry Johnson, Chester Taylor, Warrick Dunn, Ahman Green, Reuben Droughns, Shaun Alexander, Ronnie Brown, Deuce McAllister, Brian Westbrook, LaDainian Tomlinson, Tatum Bell, Edgerrin James and Thomas Jones.




Martin's highest YPC under Parcells was 4.04. Julius has been higher than that in two out of his three seasons (4.16 and 4.06), and his lowest (3.86) was still higher than Martin's overall average under Parcells (3.80).

Martin under Parcells = 3.80 YPC
Julius under Parcells = 4.02 YPC

What did Troy Hambrick average in part-time work?

When JuJo actually has a season like Curtis Martin talk to me then.

Some stats are rather pointless. .2 ypc when a guy is getting 100 less carries per season doesn't mean much.

JuJo is splitting carries and Curtis Martin was in NFL MVP talk.

 

[AdamJT13]

What did Troy Hambrick average in part-time work?

When JuJo actually has a season like Curtis Martin talk to me then.

Some stats are rather pointless. .2 ypc when a guy is getting 100 less carries per season doesn't mean much.

JuJo is splitting carries and Curtis Martin was in NFL MVP talk.

What in the world are you babbling about?

Hambrick had one season under Parcells and averaged 3.5 YPC.

Martin had four seasons under Parcells and averaged 3.8 YPC overall -- 4.0, 3.6, 3.5 and 4.0 by season. He wasn't any more effective just because he had a few more carries. He just got a lot of carries.

And Julius might be splitting carries, but he's still had more than 250 in each of the past two seasons -- putting him among the top 15 in rushing attempts in both seasons. And he's always gotten the starter's carries, not the meaningless carries like Hambrick got as Emmitt's backup (under Campo) or the third-and-long, pasing-situation carries that some change-of-pace backs get.

No matter how much you try to ignore it, you can't change the fact since 1986, NOT A SINGLE ONE of Parcells' teams or starting running backs, or any backup with more than 110 carries, ever had a YPC higher than 4.04 -- until Julius came along. And yet, miraculously, those same teams and/or running backs were almost always able to post higher YPC averages before Parcells arrived and after he left.

Curtis Martin averaged 4.0 and 3.6 YPC in his first two years under Parcells. In his third year, under Pete Carroll, he averaged 4.23. In his fourth and fifth years, back under Parcells, he averaged 3.5 and 4.0. In his sixth year and seventh years, under Herm Edwards, he averaged 4.54 and 4.19.

Adrian Murrell averaged 4.15 YPC on 301 carries under Rich Kotite in 1996. The very next season, under Parcells, Murrell rushed 300 times for 3.62 YPC.

The 1990 Giants under Parcells averaged 3.79 YPC. The 1991 Giants under Ray Handley averaged 4.24.

The 1992 Patriots under Dick McPherson averaged 3.70 YPC. The 1993 Patriots under Parcells averaged 3.55 YPC.

The 1996 Patriots under Parcells averaged 3.44 YPC. The 1997 Patriots under Carroll averaged 3.68.

The 1996 Jets under Kotite averaged 3.89 YPC. The 1997 Jets under Parcells averaged 3.45.

The 2002 Cowboys under Dave Campo averaged 4.15 YPC. The 2003 Cowboys under Parcells averaged 3.88.

What an amazing bunch of coincidences, right?

 

[Cowboy4ever]

What in the world are you babbling about?

Hambrick had one season under Parcells and averaged 3.5 YPC.

Martin had four seasons under Parcells and averaged 3.8 YPC overall -- 4.0, 3.6, 3.5 and 4.0 by season. He wasn't any more effective just because he had a few more carries. He just got a lot of carries.

And Julius might be splitting carries, but he's still had more than 250 in each of the past two seasons -- putting him among the top 15 in rushing attempts in both seasons. And he's always gotten the starter's carries, not the meaningless carries like Hambrick got as Emmitt's backup (under Campo) or the third-and-long, pasing-situation carries that some change-of-pace backs get.

No matter how much you try to ignore it, you can't change the fact since 1986, NOT A SINGLE ONE of Parcells' teams or starting running backs, or any backup with more than 110 carries, ever had a YPC higher than 4.04 -- until Julius came along. And yet, miraculously, those same teams and/or running backs were almost always able to post higher YPC averages before Parcells arrived and after he left.

Curtis Martin averaged 4.0 and 3.6 YPC in his first two years under Parcells. In his third year, under Pete Carroll, he averaged 4.23. In his fourth and fifth years, back under Parcells, he averaged 3.5 and 4.0. In his sixth year and seventh years, under Herm Edwards, he averaged 4.54 and 4.19.

Adrian Murrell averaged 4.15 YPC on 301 carries under Rich Kotite in 1996. The very next season, under Parcells, Murrell rushed 300 times for 3.62 YPC.

The 1990 Giants under Parcells averaged 3.79 YPC. The 1991 Giants under Ray Handley averaged 4.24.

The 1992 Patriots under Dick McPherson averaged 3.70 YPC. The 1993 Patriots under Parcells averaged 3.55 YPC.

The 1996 Patriots under Parcells averaged 3.44 YPC. The 1997 Patriots under Carroll averaged 3.68.

The 1996 Jets under Kotite averaged 3.89 YPC. The 1997 Jets under Parcells averaged 3.45.

The 2002 Cowboys under Dave Campo averaged 4.15 YPC. The 2003 Cowboys under Parcells averaged 3.88.

What an amazing bunch of coincidences, right?

Game, Set and Match!

 

[cowboyeric8]

What in the world are you babbling about?

Hambrick had one season under Parcells and averaged 3.5 YPC.

Martin had four seasons under Parcells and averaged 3.8 YPC overall -- 4.0, 3.6, 3.5 and 4.0 by season. He wasn't any more effective just because he had a few more carries. He just got a lot of carries.

And Julius might be splitting carries, but he's still had more than 250 in each of the past two seasons -- putting him among the top 15 in rushing attempts in both seasons. And he's always gotten the starter's carries, not the meaningless carries like Hambrick got as Emmitt's backup (under Campo) or the third-and-long, pasing-situation carries that some change-of-pace backs get.

No matter how much you try to ignore it, you can't change the fact since 1986, NOT A SINGLE ONE of Parcells' teams or starting running backs, or any backup with more than 110 carries, ever had a YPC higher than 4.04 -- until Julius came along. And yet, miraculously, those same teams and/or running backs were almost always able to post higher YPC averages before Parcells arrived and after he left.

Curtis Martin averaged 4.0 and 3.6 YPC in his first two years under Parcells. In his third year, under Pete Carroll, he averaged 4.23. In his fourth and fifth years, back under Parcells, he averaged 3.5 and 4.0. In his sixth year and seventh years, under Herm Edwards, he averaged 4.54 and 4.19.

Adrian Murrell averaged 4.15 YPC on 301 carries under Rich Kotite in 1996. The very next season, under Parcells, Murrell rushed 300 times for 3.62 YPC.

The 1990 Giants under Parcells averaged 3.79 YPC. The 1991 Giants under Ray Handley averaged 4.24.

The 1992 Patriots under Dick McPherson averaged 3.70 YPC. The 1993 Patriots under Parcells averaged 3.55 YPC.

The 1996 Patriots under Parcells averaged 3.44 YPC. The 1997 Patriots under Carroll averaged 3.68.

The 1996 Jets under Kotite averaged 3.89 YPC. The 1997 Jets under Parcells averaged 3.45.

The 2002 Cowboys under Dave Campo averaged 4.15 YPC. The 2003 Cowboys under Parcells averaged 3.88.

What an amazing bunch of coincidences, right?

Dang that is some serious research, and right on the money

 

[Zaxor]

What an amazing bunch of coincidences, right?

:laugh2: Oooh that is gonna leave a mark

 

[Calvin2Tony2Emmitt2Julius]

Not saying JJ is TD, but if you have a chance watch the 77 Cowboys America's Game.

Landry was stifling TD, starting Pearson, trying to get Tony to run the play as designed.

In a practice Tony cut all the way back against the defense and Landry was screaming no, no, no that will never happen in a game.

They come out on Sunday, call the play, Tony cuts it back and breaks a long TD run...on Monday in the offensive meeting Tom comes in and says, "Guys, Tony is a different kind of runner, from now on just lay a hat on somebody and get out of the way!"

Parcells was too damned stubborn to ever do anything like that, always pounding square pegs

Yes I even remember Tom Letting The formation change for Tony. He was so quick to the hole that he kept running up Linemans backs, Tom tweeked the offense and let Tony Line up farther back. As Stern as Tom was, If he saw a way to improve, he would adapt.

 

[Doomsday101]

It doesn't fit their agenda.

The only agenda I have is seeing this running game improve. Jones has had 3 years and there is still doubt with many of who is even the best RB on this team. My loyalty is to the Cowboys not Jones or Barber and which ever guy can prove he can do the job is the guy I want to see out there. I'm sorry some if you want candy coated news or view points and any time someone points out a weakness or a negitive you and some others can't handle that. Well wake up Jones is an avg RB and I would like to see more than that from a guy who is suppose to be a starting RB.

 

[jay cee]

Game, Set and Match!

At some point, you would think these guys would learn to stop debating with that guy.

 

[jay cee]

The only agenda I have is seeing this running game improve. Jones has had 3 years and there is still doubt with many of who is even the best RB on this team. My loyalty is to the Cowboys not Jones or Barber and which ever guy can prove he can do the job is the guy I want to see out there. I'm sorry some if you want candy coated news or view points and any time someone points out a weakness or a negitive you and some others can't handle that. Well wake up Jones is an avg RB and I would like to see more than that from a guy who is suppose to be a starting RB.

No Dooms, lets be honest. As a fan, you have no impact on improving the running game. Nothing you say or post can do anything to help meet that goal.

So that's not why you have been posting your criticisms of Jones.

The fact that you take time to continously criticize Jones shows that you have an agenda.

You want a superstar runningback for the Cowboys, and you don't think Jones is good enough, there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm a Cowboy homer and apologist. I don't have a problem admitting that I have an agenda on most of my posts.

I have no problem with them replacing Jones with a great player, I just don't like to see the guy criticized as if he is one of the worse rb's in the game.

He is not. He is an above average running back IMO. I think he will show that this year.

I think Adam has pretty well proven that teams running games seem to average a little less per carry under Parcells. If that holds true this year also, I would expect a nice season for Jones and Barber.

I'm sorry that some of you only want criticism of the players that you don't like. And get annoyed when the rest of us don't share your opinions.

 

[Doomsday101]

No Dooms, lets be honest. As a fan, you have no impact on improving the running game. Nothing you say or post can do anything to help meet that goal.

So that's not why you have been posting your criticisms of Jones.

The fact that you take time to continously criticize Jones shows that you have an agenda.

You want a superstar runningback for the Cowboys, and you don't think Jones is good enough, there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm a Cowboy homer and apologist. I don't have a problem admitting that I have an agenda on most of my posts.

I have no problem with them replacing Jones with a great player, I just don't like to see the guy criticized as if he is one of the worse rb's in the game.

He is not. He is an above average running back IMO. I think he will show that this year.

I think Adam has pretty well proven that teams running games seem to average a little less per carry under Parcells. If that holds true this year also, I would expect a nice season for Jones and Barber.

I'm sorry that some of you only want criticism of the players that you don't like. And get annoyed when the rest of us don't share your opinions.

I'm sorry I have no agenda against Jones. I want improvement in the running game (I guess you could consider than my agenda). If you can't understand that then there is no need to continue with this. I supported Jones from the get go but it became pretty obvious at least to me that this team needs better production from the starting RB position. If Jones can become more consistent in his performance then great, this is nothing personal. As for your last comments I don't get annoyed with other opinions if you think Jones is the man great, if you want to believe that Parcells was the reason why Jones was less than stellar then that is your view but one I don't agree with and considering this board allows for different opinion I'll continue to state mine.