Most overrated Present NFL Head Coach...

[SkinsHokieFan]

Fair enough reply

I still disagree however because leadership begins at the top and someone has to set the tone for the organization. If you are talking X's and O's, I sure do see your point, however if you have ever played a down of organized football, you realize that its far more then just X's and O's. If it was just X's and O's Norv Turner would be a HOF coach by now

THEY can. THEY've won super bowls in their recent coaching stints (save Parcells, and I've already mentioned him on the overrated list). During Gibbs current tenure, he has done nothing that gives any indication that HE has anything to do with the play of the team. Williams is in control of the defense. When Gibbs was solely taking care of the offense, they were terrible. He gets some help, they get better. Now he needs even more help. Sorry, I don't see what Gibbs is doing that is so amazing. Those other coaches (except Jimmy) made their coordinators into what they are, and you can still see that influence today, as Parcells / Bellichick's coaching tree is one of the most successful in history. Gibbs doesn't have the same track record. I look at him like I look at Jimmy. Hell of a GM, and manager, but not much of an actual "coach."

 

[AtlCB]

Mike Martz before he was fired. Now it's Jim Mora. With the talent that the Falcons have, you think this team would easily make the playoffs.

I honestly cannot believe that any of the coaches in the NFC East would be on this list.

 

[clayman]

Rich Kotite, Jerry Burns

 

[ravidubey]

Brian Billick and Dennis Green.

 

[31smackdown]

Herm Edwards... Players seem to love him, but I think he is pretty poor as an overall coach and game manager

 

[Gamebreaker]

Williams is in control of the defense. When Gibbs was solely taking care of the offense, they were terrible. He gets some help, they get better.

You imply that Gibbs got help in 2005, from whom?

 

[ZeroClub]

I'd go with Jim Mora and Herm Edwards.

 

[superpunk]

You imply that Gibbs got help in 2005, from whom?

Musgrave? I can't remember. But it was someone.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

You imply that Gibbs got help in 2005, from whom?

Santana Moss

 

[Gamebreaker]

Musgrave? I can't remember. But it was someone.

It's Bill Musgrave. He is just a quarterbacks coach, who was hired to help Ramsey's development. Oh yeah, he must've done a great job considering Ramsey is a Jet now. Please explain to me how Musgrave helped Gibbs in playcalling, gameplanning, and managing the offense. All things that aren't in his job description. Nice try, but your argument holds no weight in this discussion.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

It's Bill Musgrave. He is just a quarterbacks coach, who was hired to help Ramsey's development. Oh yeah, he must've done a great job considering Ramsey is a Jet now. Please explain to me how Musgrave helped Gibbs in playcalling, gameplanning, and managing the offense. All things that aren't in his job description. Nice try, but your argument holds no weight in this discussion.

Not to mention Musgrave is now down in Atlanta

Of course, since Gibbs went out and hired the best available offensive mind in the NFL, Gibbs' role in the Washington Commanders resurgence is minimal, haven't you figured that out yet?

 

[superpunk]

It's Bill Musgrave. He is just a quarterbacks coach, who was hired to help Ramsey's development. Oh yeah, he must've done a great job considering Ramsey is a Jet now. Please explain to me how Musgrave helped Gibbs in playcalling, gameplanning, and managing the offense. All things that aren't in his job description. Nice try, but your argument holds no weight in this discussion.

Really? It doesn't?

From Joey Gibbs himself;

I think it is good from time to time to bring in somebody that gives you different ideas and comes from a different view point," Gibbs said during an impromptu meeting with reporters. "He [Musgrave] came down through a completely different thought process on offense, which is good. He has been in some pressure situations, calling plays and things.

What a shocking amount of water my argument holds now...

He brings in a lot of new ideas," Gibbs said. "We're looking for ideas there. It's a good time to bring in someone who gives you different ideas and brings different viewpoints.

Washington Times article detailing how Musgrave brought the shotgun to Washington...

It's the second straight year coach Joe Gibbs has added a top assistant to help upgrade the offense. Last year, he hired quarterbacks coach Bill Musgrave, who introduced the shotgun.

Another addition to the passing game is the new quarterback coach, Bill Musgrave. Coach Musgrave was added to infuse new ideas into the Commanders playbook. His input has affected everything from blocking schemes to quarterback footwork. Maybe the most important addition made by Coach Musgrave is the introduction of the shotgun formation to the offense,

Musgrave who was Jacksonville's offensive coordinator in 2003-04, installed the shotgun into a Gibbs offense for the first time and helped Mark Brunell experience a renaissance at age 35 with 23 touchdowns passes and an 85.9 passer rating.

Do you require any more bludgeoning with information, or is this enough?

Because I've got more.

 

[MossBurner]

You're so wrong, Superpunk. Even on this message board, where 99% of posters hate Joe Gibbs and everything to do with the organization, you are the only poster insisting that Coach Gibbs is overrated.

Coaches don't win 3 Super Bowls by pure chance. Lucky coaches don't win 3 rings with 3 completely different squads. No other coach has done that, by the way.

Do you think it is a coincidence that the Commanders were mediocre to awful since Joe Gibbs retired (13 years) and suddenly return to a contender for the Super Bowl within 1 season of his return?

And don't try to say that Gregg Williams is the reason the Skins have become a successful team. The defense was better in 2004 on a below average squad than it was last season on a strong team. Also, did the Skins magically become a more organized, mature, prepared, and successful team on offense and defense? No, Joe Gibbs caused that! Gregg Williams is an excellent coordinator, but he is not the reason for the complete turn-around of the team. See Buffalo Bills...

Give it up, overrated coaches don't wind up in the Hall of Fame. They don't win 3 Super Bowls. What if the Skins win it all in the next 2-3 seasons? Will that be luck too?

 

[superpunk]

Is there a reason you're bringing up all this stuff that happened 15 years ago as reasons why Gibbs isn't overrated today? It is 2006, you know. If I were using super bowl victories that took place a decade and a half ago, I wouldn't have listed Parcells as overrated - now would I?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

damnit superpunk, stop owning people!

 

[Alexander]

Marvin Lewis.

He can motivate, but there always seems to be something lacking in the preparation/adjustment department.

 

[superpunk]

Marvin Lewis.

He can motivate, but there always seems to be something lacking in the preparation/adjustment department.

Damn. That guy's my favorite. IMO, what is missing is interior defense. I would've thought he'd have fixed that almost immediately, but he's like the anti-Billick, lol.

 

[Alexander]

Damn. That guy's my favorite. IMO, what is missing is interior defense. I would've thought he'd have fixed that almost immediately, but he's like the anti-Billick, lol.

We'll see what he does this year after getting the defense "fixed". That team is pretty loaded, so if they stay healthy and still miss the postseason, he didn't get the job done.

I don't know about him. He always seems to make some sort of mistake in a game that is crucial, but yet it rarely gets talked about. Very much like Herman Edwards.

 

[MossBurner]

Is there a reason you're bringing up all this stuff that happened 15 years ago as reasons why Gibbs isn't overrated today? It is 2006, you know. If I were using super bowl victories that took place a decade and a half ago, I wouldn't have listed Parcells as overrated - now would I?

Let's see, Gibbs has only coached 2 seasons recently. 95% of the body of his work was 15 years ago. Maybe that's why it was brought up!

As for recent success, he did take an awful team to the NFC semifinals just 2 seasons after rebuilding a Steve Spurrier organized squad. I'd say that's quite an accomplishment.

You have yet to respond to my previous post.

 

[superpunk]

Let's see, Gibbs has only coached 2 seasons recently. 95% of the body of his work was 15 years ago. Maybe that's why it was brought up!

And that's exactly why it's irrelevant, when discussing present-day overrated head coaches.

As for recent success, he did take an awful team to the NFC semifinals just 2 seasons after rebuilding a Steve Spurrier organized squad. I'd say that's quite an accomplishment.

No doubt. Fortunately, he had Greg Williams taking care of the defense, and Bill Musgrave revamping his anemic, 1990's offense.