Most overrated Present NFL Head Coach...

[Bob Sacamano]

His job was to help the skins to win games and thus far he is doing that.

by letting his assistant coaches do the brunt of the game-day management, that aint coaching, that's being a GM, hell, Danny Boy basically brought in Saunders and GW, so Gibbs doesn't even have that going for him

 

[superpunk]

His job was to help the skins to win games and thus far he is doing that. If some want to call that over-rated I'll take over rated every day of the week.

I'm not sure you're getting the point. The skins won games once someone came in and re-tooled the offense FOR Gibbs. The defense was already good, since someone other than Gibbs was already handling it.

 

[Gamebreaker]

Do you require any more bludgeoning with information, or is this enough?

Because I've got more.

Gibbs worried over bringing in the shotgun in 2004. Regardless, it was rarely used last season anyway. You are right though, he did bring different ideas and brought a different point of view to Gibbs. But to claim he is the sole reason why the offense shot up to 11th in the league he is not.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Gibbs worried over bringing in the shotgun in 2004. Regardless, it was rarely used last season anyway. You are right though, he did bring different ideas and brought a different point of view to Gibbs. But to claim he is the sole reason why the offense shot up to 11th in the league he is not.

so Gibbs got the O better from '04 to '05 by process of osmosis? it couldn't have been the talent he added, there was none, it just makes more sense to look at the improvement on O from year 1 to 2, and see Musgrave come in as being the reason why, and it still wasn't good enough, witness 2nd most offensively inept performance in playoff history, so he ditched Musgrave for Saunders, notice a pattern here?

 

[superpunk]

Gibbs worried over bringing in the shotgun in 2004. Regardless, it was rarely used last season anyway.

Right. Rarely.

Brunell threw out of the Shotgun 198 times - out of 454 attempts.

Talk about rare.

You are right though, he did bring different ideas and brought a different point of view to Gibbs. But to claim he is the sole reason why the offense shot up to 11th in the league he is not.

Boy, you've certainly backed off the whole - "he's only the QB coach, he didn't help Gibbs that much" stance.

You're learning.

 

[Doomsday101]

by letting his assistant coaches do the brunt of the game-day management, that aint coaching, that's being a GM, hell, Danny Boy basically brought in Saunders and GW, so Gibbs doesn't even have that going for him

Then that is all Jimmy Johnson was. Again Gibbs success has always been there and you don't do that with luck or by accident people who consistantly win do so because they are good at what they do. Sorry I may not like the skins but that does not change the fact of what Gibbs has accomplished as a HC in the NFL.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Boy, you've certainly backed off the whole - "he's only the QB coach, he didn't help Gibbs that much" stance.

You're learning.

the metamorphisis of his argument has only begun :bang2:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Then that is all Jimmy Johnson was.

and notice why most of us feel he was a bit overrated, just like with GIbbs?

 

[Gamebreaker]

so Gibbs got the O better from '04 to '05 by process of osmosis? it couldn't have been the talent he added, there was none, it just makes more sense to look at the improvement on O from year 1 to 2, and see Musgrave come in as being the reason why, and it still wasn't good enough, witness 2nd most offensively inept performance in playoff history, so he ditched Musgrave for Saunders, notice a pattern here?

Here is what Musgrave did with the Jaguars offense as the OC, before becoming a QB coach, NOT an OC for Washington:

"Musgrave was fired on Monday after the Jaguars finished 9-7, one game out of the last AFC wild-card spot. Their offense performed only marginally better than Washington's, setting a franchise-low average of 16.5 points per game."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56552-2005Jan7.html

So Moss coming in for Coles wasn't adding talent? Of course, because his numbers didn't even come close to Coles' numbers. Right?

No, it is not a good reason to just point at ANY signing on the coaching staff from season to season as the reason for improvement. Stop grasping at straws, he was a quarterback coach. He didn't call plays on gameday, something people complained about in 2004. He didn't manage the game. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not sure you're getting the point. The skins won games once someone came in and re-tooled the offense FOR Gibbs. The defense was already good, since someone other than Gibbs was already handling it.

Gibbs took over a mess in Washington when Mr. College football left. Gibbs wanted Burnell and he replaced his QB, his assistant coaches did not do that. He wanted Portis and Snyder went out and got Portis. Gibbs also has a say so in what his assistant coaches are doing they are not doing their own little thing Gibbs knows exactly what is taking place. I think too many look at these situation with a bias aginst the particular team and that is fine with me but as a fan of the game of football (not just a Cowboy fan) I reconzie success when I see it and that is what Gibbs brought back to Washington which is something no other coach has done since Gibbs left Washington the 1st time.

 

[Doomsday101]

and notice why most of us feel he was a bit overrated, just like with GIbbs?

Well your entitled to your opinion but the fact remains Gibbs is successful in what ever he gets involved with so he must have a clue as to what he is doing.

 

[superpunk]

No, it is not a good reason to just point at ANY signing on the coaching staff from season to season as the reason for improvement. Stop grasping at straws, he was a quarterback coach. He didn't call plays on gameday, something people complained about in 2004. He didn't manage the game. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

You're right - his impact was minimal. I mean, they only went from running the shotgun once to running it 198 times.

But thanks for using the article I gave ya.

 

[Gamebreaker]

You think Gibbs will have a hand in calling an offense he knows nothing about? Hasnt it already been said that Saunders has full control of the offense including playcalling?

This is false, Gibbs and Saunders offenses are very similar. This is something that has actually been noted in this forum numerous times, by Cowboys fans attempting to downplay Saunders contribution to the offense in 2006.

The main differences in the offense Saunders ran in KC is there was no H-back, and alot more 3-4 WR sets. Regardless, the H-back will still be used, just not as much.

 

[DCowboyz]

Joe Gibbs..

 

[Gamebreaker]

there's also something called a weak 2nd half schedule before facing the Giants and Cowboys

Their were only two games before they faced the Giants and Cowboys. The Rams and Cardinals. Although both teams were weak last season, the Cards fared alot better than the Giants, Cowboys, and Eagles in their matchup.

 

[Gamebreaker]

:laugh2: just because it suits your weak argument

all coaching is in Xs and Os, or well that was the point before teams started giving coaches GM roles too

So what was Mike Martz and Norv Turner's problem?

 

[Gamebreaker]

You're right - his impact was minimal. I mean, they only went from running the shotgun once to running it 198 times.

But thanks for using the article I gave ya.

Where did you get that number of times the shotgun was used? Just curious.

 

[superpunk]

Where did you get that number of times the shotgun was used? Just curious.

ESPN splits. 198 times.....rare.....

 

[Hostile]

At the sake of sounding redundant, I'm going to repeat my opinion on this.

Given how hard these men work, putting their futures in the hands of players who can screw up everything, and under the pressures that they do it, none of them are over rated, but many are under appreciated.

 

[riggo]

so Gibbs got the O better from '04 to '05 by process of osmosis? it couldn't have been the talent he added, there was none

besides jansen coming back from an injured year off, rabach taking over for raymer.....and that moss fella taking over for coles....you are correct.