NBA 2015 Season Talk

[jterrell]

And still in the 8th seed. They are fighting for the playoffs this year, and they saw the only chance they could get a point guard of Dragics' caliber. They couldn't afford him as a FA, so they went after him via trade, where they could re-sign him.
The picks are in 2017 and 2021 IIRC. Long term it may hurt, however, the Heat have been a very poor drafting team outside of 2002/2003.
The depth you are referring to is basically trash. Cole? Declined this year and was another 1st round disappointment.
Hamilton? He was a nice bench warmer. Wasn't going to play unless multiple injuries pop up again.
Williams? Played ok. Probably the best bench guy given up, which isnt saying much.
Granger? Eh. His play is easily replaceable.
They now have two roster spots open that they can use to sign some potential buyout players. There's the depth being replenished with better players.

Bosh is 31, Wade is 33, Whiteside will be 26, McRoberts is 29, Deng is 30, Dragic is 29...

Where's "built around 35 year old dudes" cast you are referring to?

Oh, Anderson and Haslem. One is a backup center and the other is a bench warmer most nights.

How did the Heat get worse defensively? Losing a shell of former self Granger? Cole? lol. Hamiton? lmao.
Williams? No.

An 8th seed who likely has no Bosh to end the season.
IF they remain 8th they play ATL in round 1 and it looks like CLE in round 2... good luck with that.

They get worse because Dragic is a poor defender. So they trade his added offense for more defensive-minded players.

Buy out players generally only help you now. The Heat suck right now so that's really not the issue even if they can talk a buy out guy into coming there over a team that is a contender.
The issue is going forward.
They traded off about 40 minutes per night and two 1st round picks for a guy who'll give them 30... a loss of depth for sure.
They traded off their 4th, 6th and 10th highest minutes played guy to add 1 player.

They have been terrible offensively so are trading offense for defense.

The biggest issue with trading off picks is it limits you using them going forward in trades. You can't trade back to back picks so it ties you up for a long time.

Grabbing a starting PG is generally a good move but adding one who couldn't start somewhere else and betting one his 1 all-star caliber season is a huge gamble.

 

[jterrell]

hard to benefit form a pg friendly system when a team has 4 pg's, and start two.
we'll see what he does with his chance..

he certainly benefited last year and he started every game this year.
this year he regressed to the mean but was still at his 2nd highest career totals.
perhaps he just isn't as good as his one outlier season suggests.

dragic is moving from a team that averaged 106 PPG to one averaging 92 that looks like it is without it's leading scorer for the rest of the year.
i don't see any way he duplicates his PHX numbers of this year much less last on this Heat team.

not sure how he is supposed to fit on a team built around defense and set plays.
but you are correct we will see.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

he certainly benefited last year and he started every game this year.
this year he regressed to the mean but was still at his 2nd highest career totals.
perhaps he just isn't as good as his one outlier season suggests.

dragic is moving from a team that averaged 106 PPG to one averaging 92 that looks like it is without it's leading scorer for the rest of the year.
i don't see any way he duplicates his PHX numbers of this year much less last on this Heat team.

not sure how he is supposed to fit on a team built around defense and set plays.
but you are correct we will see.

The heat needs someone to put the ball in the hoop. and now he has the ball in his hand, not splitting it between two other scoring type pg's.
So we will see. Ill wait to see the results before I judge..... I do however like him as a player and always felt that he never got his chance fully until that one all star season, but thats just me. Dragic told Phoenix he didn't want to stand in the corner anymore, he's a PG, not a third option wing.... and I don't blame him for that. Now he has to show and prove.

Miami don't build through the draft anyway, a 2017 & 2021 draft choice, S. Williams, Justin Hamilton, & Daniel Granger (today) is not as big as a blow to the Heat as it would be for a small market team. I'm in wait and see mode with this trade, it could be good, or it could backfire.... worst case, they don't resign him and create salary cap space for the next free agent.

 

[jterrell]

The heat needs someone to put the ball in the hoop. and now he has the ball in his hand, not splitting it between two other scoring type pg's.
So we will see. Ill wait to see the results before I judge..... I do however like him as a player and always felt that he never got his chance fully until that one all star season, but thats just me. Dragic told Phoenix he didn't want to stand in the corner anymore, he's a PG, not a third option wing.... and I don't blame him for that. Now he has to show and prove.

Miami don't build through the draft anyway, a 2017 & 2021 draft choice, S. Williams, Justin Hamilton, & Daniel Granger (today) is not as big as a blow to the Heat as it would be for a small market team. I'm in wait and see mode with this trade, it could be good, or it could backfire.... worst case, they don't resign him and create salary cap space for the next free agent.

Miami can use the offense for sure.
And getting a starting PG is always a good thing.

But fit for the team they have in place seems pretty bad.
He runs the offense, but what offense? The Wade and Bosh offense?
Because that offense probably means less good looks and scoring than his PHX days.

In PHX Bledsoe guarded the bigger threat and was guarded by the better defender. Dragic had a good situation.
I know he was annoyed they added Thomas as a 3rd wheel but Dragic's best ever season BY A MILE was next to Bledsoe.

Now he is next to Wade for however long he has left and how ever many games/minutes per year he can play. After Wade they had Granger but he is now gone.

As I mention above the issue with trading picks is their tie to other picks.
trading a 2017 and 2021 pick means you can not trade 2016, 2018, 2020 or 2022 unless you add a 1st back.
So the currency of making deals is now severely limited.

Miami is a team I think should have been selling off assets to add picks, not trading them away.
Especially not going all in on one guy that has had 1 major season.
Because even if Dragic is good, Miami is probably middle of the road at best.
And now they have few tradeable assets and essentially no cap space.

For Heat fans it should make games more watchable but this move also probably prolongs the inevitable rebuild.

With Bosh out now was the time to tank and get a Lottery pick. Sell off some guys to reduce cap hits and then add a free agent in the summer to go with a young commodity that could be traded or put in the rotation day 1.

 

[jterrell]

I think of the trade deadline moves, OKC had the best day.
Kanter gives them some scoring inside which was their biggest black hole.
Jackson is a solid guard but he was truly unhappy and the team couldn't get him gone fast enough.

DJ Augustin obviously knows how to play with KD and gives OKC the back up PG who will play defense and get the ball to KD.
That hole they were in was real deep so will be interesting to them finish the season out.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Miami can use the offense for sure.
And getting a starting PG is always a good thing.

But fit for the team they have in place seems pretty bad.
He runs the offense, but what offense? The Wade and Bosh offense?
Because that offense probably means less good looks and scoring than his PHX days.

In PHX Bledsoe guarded the bigger threat and was guarded by the better defender. Dragic had a good situation.
I know he was annoyed they added Thomas as a 3rd wheel but Dragic's best ever season BY A MILE was next to Bledsoe.

I don't know about that. I think he played his best basketball when Bledsoe wasn't in the line up. Bledsoe started less than half of the games last year, and barely played half the season, due to injuries and so on....... But I do agree they played pretty well together.
Signing Isiah Thomas was there death wish to Bledsoe or Dragic, and since they drafted Enis, and resigned Bledsoe, the obvious was Dragic.

And though you make some solid points, I don't think Miami management views their team the same way you do, especially with wade & bosh contracts. Now that Bosh is out, there will be more for Dragic to carry, so he most certainly will have his chance.... I'm curious to see Zoran as well.

Sidetone: Katner is a horrible defender but a very good offensive player with excellent post moves. It will be interesting to see how he fits, Collision, and Ibaka will most certainly have to have his back... Steven Adams & Mitch McGary has been playing well, when healthy of course.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Pistons making that push. Reggie Jackson debut coming up.

 

[jterrell]

I don't know about that. I think he played his best basketball when Bledsoe wasn't in the line up. Bledsoe started less than half of the games last year, and barely played half the season, due to injuries and so on....... But I do agree they played pretty well together.
Signing Isiah Thomas was there death wish to Bledsoe or Dragic, and since they drafted Enis, and resigned Bledsoe, the obvious was Dragic.

And though you make some solid points, I don't think Miami management views their team the same way you do, especially with wade & bosh contracts. Now that Bosh is out, there will be more for Dragic to carry, so he most certainly will have his chance.... I'm curious to see Zoran as well.

Sidetone: Katner is a horrible defender but a very good offensive player with excellent post moves. It will be interesting to see how he fits, Collision, and Ibaka will most certainly have to have his back... Steven Adams & Mitch McGary has been playing well, when healthy of course.

ultimately you are correct. Miami views it's situation differently than me. they think they are title contenders which is hilariously erroneous.
i pointed out before the season began they weren't very good when people where picking them to win the east....
i think it will be very difficult for them to retain the 8 seed.
I don't see the coherent plan or the honest player evaluation.
they overpaid for everyone last off-season and really have very little hope of ascending without making a couple big moves.

again, dragic was a high scoring player on an enormous scoring team, that can often be fake gold. i call it the ced ceballos effect.

yea kanter is just a piece to be used in spots but he is a piece they've never had. i like mcgary but he has a lot to learn before playing many playoff minutes.
adams and ibaka defend great, and ibaka will hit 15 footers on you like nothing but neither one has a post move to their name.
kanter plus augustin for jackson and perkins is a solid swap. especially with mindset factored in.
westbrook is really killing it and KD has absurd length and scoring for his position. OKC is scary.
they can finish 8th then possibly beat GSW in a series.
westbrook is a better athlete than thompson or steph curry which is a must if you are going to deal with them because no one out skills them.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

ultimately you are correct. Miami views it's situation differently than me. they think they are title contenders which is hilariously erroneous.
i pointed out before the season began they weren't very good when people where picking them to win the east....
i think it will be very difficult for them to retain the 8 seed.
I don't see the coherent plan or the honest player evaluation.
they overpaid for everyone last off-season and really have very little hope of ascending without making a couple big moves.

again, dragic was a high scoring player on an enormous scoring team, that can often be fake gold. i call it the ced ceballos effect.

yea kanter is just a piece to be used in spots but he is a piece they've never had. i like mcgary but he has a lot to learn before playing many playoff minutes.
adams and ibaka defend great, and ibaka will hit 15 footers on you like nothing but neither one has a post move to their name.
kanter plus augustin for jackson and perkins is a solid swap. especially with mindset factored in.
westbrook is really killing it and KD has absurd length and scoring for his position. OKC is scary.
they can finish 8th then possibly beat GSW in a series.
westbrook is a better athlete than thompson or steph curry which is a must if you are going to deal with them because no one out skills them.

I don't know if they think they are contenders, I think they believe they can still put players around bosh and wade that can make them contenders, also they understand they are in the east. I don't know if thats far fetched, like you,I don't agree, but it's not far fetched. If bosh doesn't fall ill, their starting five was a problem for anyone in the east with Dragic in the lineup. Don't get it mistaken though, I think they need to make some major changes as well. (Whitside was a big find)

Of course Kantner is a piece they never had, but will Westbrook & Durant find shots for him to make his post game work. (I think they can, we will see) And yes, they acquired solid depth In that trade. Actually Kantner played solid defense yesterday against Al Jefferson, he stayed in front, got his arms up, & tried to be physical. But Big Al, as great as he is, is slow of foot, but effort is the first step........interesting to see how it all works... Kid is talented, and a willing rebounder.... McGary is good. The guy can do a lot on the floor, and the fact that he doesn't make a lot of mistakes, understand floor spacing, and can hit the elbow, and baseline jumpers makes his passing game a threat. He's going to play... and he's ready to play because he doesn't hurt them when he's on the floor.
9pts 10rebs, 2Blks, 2Stls,1TO last night in 15minutes.... Pretty impressive.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

quick note, I didn't know OKC got Singler in the RJ deal.... he does what Novak does, and more... sorry Novak, no burn for you.

 

[jterrell]

various:
Miami: Again, I don't get it, and didn't get it in the off-season. People thought they were gonna be East favorites and they were an 8 seed and well under .500. They just aren't very good. Adding Dragic helps on offense but it doesn't make them a contender. Bring everyone back next year healthy and I still don't see them as a home playoff team in the East. Miami has been far too proud by half after LeBron left. Overpaying for guys at every turn that were never stars and now adding another guy in the same vein. Whiteside has been a tremendous find but outside that what young pieces have they added to rebuild? Where are the draft picks they've stockpiled to trade for guys? I just don't see Riley's plan as being anything more than childish nba 2k gm-ship. And I am going to have a hard time taking anyone seriously defending them if they also had them top 3 in the East to start the season.

OKC: Kanter was a bad fit beside Favors but he was exactly what OKC needed. KD was the best post offense and teams could play their best post defender against him. That was an issue in playoff half court basketball. Now if you do that
Kanter will kill most teams who lack a 2nd post defender. The OKC concern has to be if the coach is smart enough to figure out match ups and make adjustments in game. Whomever made this round of trades was smart tho... outside shooting and a back up pass/defend back up PG to go with a big man upgrade who has some post offense was nearly ideal. That Thunder team looks like it could be the best in the league the last 25 regular season games.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Kantner again showing effort on defense. Nice.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

D. Rose is down for the count again.. :/

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Rondo....
Hahahahahahahah

 

[jterrell]

Yup Rondo is killing himself.
Guessing he has issues as to how he is being showcased considering his contract status but he is only hurting himself.
Especially when his back ups lead an easy turn around and win going away.

PG and head coaches have crazy relationships.
Hopefully they work it out.
I have certainly seen all of the Darren Collison, Jameer Nelson and Ray Felton types I ever wanna see.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Yup Rondo is killing himself.
Guessing he has issues as to how he is being showcased considering his contract status but he is only hurting himself.
Especially when his back ups lead an easy turn around and win going away.

PG and head coaches have crazy relationships.
Hopefully they work it out.
I have certainly seen all of the Darren Collison, Jameer Nelson and Ray Felton types I ever wanna see.

Good Point...

 

[jterrell]

League definitely needs to address scheduling.
Silver says they will and hopefully he follows through.

Mavs played their 5th game in 7 night last night, wore down and took a loss after being ahead for the entire first half. But they wilted and were awful in that 2nd half.

They have won some games similarly when other teams were fried as well so it probably evens out but it does rob the basketball game of its quality.

 

[jterrell]

Cavs looked great last night in beating GSW.
LeBron looked like a league MVP.

The Cavs in-season moves have made them far better defensively.
Looks to me like Cavs/Hawks are heavy favorites in the East.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Just keeping up with draft prospects:
Emmanuel Mudiay, after only playing the first 11 games of the CBA season, came back and played in two playoff games.... Scoring 24pts in one game, and 15pts in the second. His all around game was on display, but his shooting still needs to improve. Top 5 prospects seems to be shaping up, and despite what espn would lead you to think... Karl Townes is considered to be the number 1 prospect by some GM's over Okafur. Wouldn't be surprised if D'Angelo Russell, and Mudiay, make a claim as well.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Miami turning garbage into gold. Tyler Johnson, Beasley and Whiteside all paying off.... all athletic, all young...
I've always rooted for Bees through his struggles, always liked his offensive game. Lets Hope he can return on that promise he showed coming out of College and high school. Same with Whiteside.


Go Sixers! Hawks Go Down!