NBA Offseason

[Manwiththeplan]

They just could not draft at all.
All those guys are basically minimum wage NBA players now.
Coaching didn't help but coaching ain't saving awful draft picks.

I agree, I don't think all or even most of these guys would have panned out else where.

 

[darthseinfeld]

RJ Barrett made a huge jump under Thibs after Fizdale was fired. There was so much wrong with the organization for so long it’s hard to put it on one person, but Fizdale was a bad hire all around

Things are really looking up for you guys. Just the way Randle has been able to remodel his game from a productive guy that doesnt really fit the modern game, to a legit modern franchise player has been incredible

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Things are really looking up for you guys. Just the way Randle has been able to remodel his game from a productive guy that doesnt really fit the modern game, to a legit modern franchise player has been incredible

Didn't see it coming to be honest. I think *at best* we're the 5th best team in the East and would need a major trade to get past that. But unlike in years past we're both deep with quality players (Not that Thibs uses a deep rotation) and have draft assets. Maybe we can get lucky and can get a superstar demand a trade to NY and get them for relatively nothing.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Didn't see it coming to be honest. I think *at best* we're the 5th best team in the East and would need a major trade to get past that. But unlike in years past we're both deep with quality players (Not that Thibs uses a deep rotation) and have draft assets. Maybe we can get lucky and can get a superstar demand a trade to NY and get them for relatively nothing.

4th or 5th is probably about right, however the East is still young and unpredictable. Biggest thing for you guys this season wouls be Barrett hitting a true All Star level of play. That would really put NY on the map for players looking to go into a winning situation.

Fornier will help alot too. And you guys got him on a better deal than expected IMO. On our side, our fans didnt want to lock him up at "4/80", but when deal got announced with a team option people got pissed. Makes him alot more movable

 

[darthseinfeld]

Celtics just completed an S&T with the Knicks for Fournier, creating a 17 million TPE. Gave up a second round (two technically, but the other is unlikely to convey)

Reading into fan machinations, it does allow us to eat Bertrans salary if a Beal trade were to happen

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Celtics just completed an S&T with the Knicks for Fournier, creating a 17 million TPE. Gave up a second round (two technically, but the other is unlikely to convey)

Reading into fan machinations, it does allow us to eat Bertrans salary if a Beal trade were to happen

I mean, I guess it's a low down side move. As you said the one pick is very likely to convey...I think it's top 55 protected. The other one is probably really late.

But how often do teams actually do anything significant with TPEs? I feel like they're over rated. Maybe if they could be combined with multi player trades, but I think they can only be added into 1 for 1 trades

 

[darthseinfeld]

I mean, I guess it's a low down side move. As you said the one pick is very likely to convey...I think it's top 55 protected. The other one is probably really late.

But how often do teams actually do anything significant with TPEs? I feel like they're over rated. Maybe if they could be combined with multi player trades, but I think they can only be added into 1 for 1 trades

Not often, but it does give you some flexibility with the cap

You can add other salary trade, but it doesn't exapand how much you can take. For example with 17M TPE, you can't add a player making 10M and trade for a player making 27

 

[jterrell]

Good off-season write up here:
Like this guy a lot though he has traditionally focused Celtics.

https://www.spotrac.com/research/nba/nba-free-agency-5-lists-of-5-1283/

excerpted.....

Five Best Value Contracts
Chris Paul and Cameron Payne – Phoenix Suns: The Suns pulled a bit of a shocker, given their history, and spent money to keep their team together. And they did so in a really smart way. Sure, Chris Paul signed a four-year, $120 million contract, but Phoenix is on the hook for only $75 million guaranteed. If Paul’s play falls off, the Suns can move on relatively cheaply. If he’s still good, they’ll happy pay him $30 million per season. Getting Payne back for $19 million over three years is a great value, one that is made even greater when it came out the final season is only $2 million guaranteed. Phoenix has their point guard position covered for at least a couple more seasons.

Bobby Portis – Milwaukee Bucks: Portis took one of the biggest hometown discounts around. He re-signed with the Bucks using his Non-Bird rights, which gave him only a modest pay bump over last year. That allowed Milwaukee to use the Taxpayer MLE to sign George Hill. Every little bit helped to keep the tax bill down for the champs.

Richaun Holmes – Sacramento Kings: We’ve all made “KANGZ!” jokes, but this was one of the best moves any team made this summer. Holmes was neck-and-neck with Jarrett Allen for the best center on the market and the Kings kept their guy for less than half of what Allen got from the Cleveland Cavaliers. Considering a handful of playoff contenders had cap space and a hole at center, Sacramento did really well to get Holmes back for the full amount his Early Bird rights could get him.

 

[jterrell]

Things are really looking up for you guys. Just the way Randle has been able to remodel his game from a productive guy that doesnt really fit the modern game, to a legit modern franchise player has been incredible

I've known about Randle since he was in 8th grade and he has been a freak athlete all that time.
His HS is like 5 minutes from here and is a bastion of personal training and development.
Mavs would hold yearly camps there.

He also had a personal coach who helped mold him(his AAU coach). And big money behind his AAU team.

The biggest issues he had were a severe focus on his left hand and going left. Teams weren't able to take that away from him until the pros.
The other thing is just the NBA adjustment to spacing and 3 and D guys around a creator.

Randle is old school and Thibs is a perfect coach for his game but he's also developed that floor spacing feel and game. And he is now comfortable going right.

He's kept the physical gifts that allow him to rebound and score inside.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I can't say he'll get a ton of minutes, but I'm really hoping we get to see more of Obi Toppin in year 2. It was in flashes, but when given minutes and *quality PG play* he's pretty good.

He may just develop into a valuable trade piece, but I'm looking forward to seeing how his play from Summer League carries over to the regular season.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Celtics make a big gamble in Time Lord. He was incredibly productive last season, and the team was much better with him in the starting lineup. However he has had durability issues.

If he can become more durable, the contract could be a steal

 

[darthseinfeld]

Celtics extend Richardson for 1 year. Very weird offseason for them. They made moves to clear salary, but then handed out 3 extensions. One of whom could basically be a fringe rotation guy if he trend back to his Miami form.

They wanted flexibility, and I guess they still have. They have alot more mid level contracts than after they signed Kemba when it was basically max's rookie scales and Smarts 14M. Richardson is a head scratcher because I dont see how he is really movable

 

[darthseinfeld]

I can't say he'll get a ton of minutes, but I'm really hoping we get to see more of Obi Toppin in year 2. It was in flashes, but when given minutes and *quality PG play* he's pretty good.

He may just develop into a valuable trade piece, but I'm looking forward to seeing how his play from Summer League carries over to the regular season.

Obi is going an interesting guy to watch because he is an uber athete. Kind of reminds me of Tyrus Thomas coming out. I think that there is a 4 of a solid 4th or 5th starter, or high end bench player. If he can approach his ceiling, he could a top 3 guy on a good team

 

[jterrell]

Celtics extend Richardson for 1 year. Very weird offseason for them. They made moves to clear salary, but then handed out 3 extensions. One of whom could basically be a fringe rotation guy if he trend back to his Miami form.

They wanted flexibility, and I guess they still have. They have alot more mid level contracts than after they signed Kemba when it was basically max's rookie scales and Smarts 14M. Richardson is a head scratcher because I dont see how he is really movable

JRich is a likable and good dude but man was he an abysmal failure in Dallas as a player.
He is a solid ball handler and free throw guy but has very little offensive impact outside that role.
Defensively he is quick but not very strong.
Pretty surprised he was extended already.

 

[ESisback]

The Lakers seem to be all about collecting names, and making a splash building super teams, whereas the Celtics appear to be building a team and finding chemistry. One way seems superficial, the other “old school”. Gimme old school!

 

[darthseinfeld]

The Lakers seem to be all about collecting names, and making a splash building super teams, whereas the Celtics appear to be building a team and finding chemistry. One way seems superficial, the other “old school”. Gimme old school!

Its gonna be an interesting team this year. I think adding Schroder in that role is big. He has thrived as a high useage 6th, and he is looking to get a big contract.

Timelord and Horford compliment each at the 5, and both will help keep the others minutes down. Williams game has expanded over the last couple years to being a solid passing big. I think Horford could help him really expand that.

Neismith end to the season and Summer league was very promising. Im hoping he can get a starting spot and be that sniper in the lineup. I think he can really feast off of Tatum and Brown.

Some C's fans were very pessimistic early in the offseason. Some thinking we are a 6th seed, to some even thinking we miss the playoffs. I dont see it. With two 25+ point a game, two way wings in todays NBA its hard to lose alot of game.

 

[Clove]

I've known about Randle since he was in 8th grade and he has been a freak athlete all that time.
His HS is like 5 minutes from here and is a bastion of personal training and development.
Mavs would hold yearly camps there.

He also had a personal coach who helped mold him(his AAU coach). And big money behind his AAU team.

The biggest issues he had were a severe focus on his left hand and going left. Teams weren't able to take that away from him until the pros.
The other thing is just the NBA adjustment to spacing and 3 and D guys around a creator.

Randle is old school and Thibs is a perfect coach for his game but he's also developed that floor spacing feel and game. And he is now comfortable going right.

He's kept the physical gifts that allow him to rebound and score inside.

I actually covered Randle at Prestonwood, maybe about 2 games when he was a freshman. He was a big kid no doubt.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Looks like Kyrie Irving is the last unvacc'd holdout. Wiggins got his shot. Nets will make a run without him, but I think they need him to get to the Finals.

Injury updates:

NBA preseason - Injury updates on Klay Thompson, Zion Williamson, Kawhi Leonard and more (espn.com)


Klay Thompson (torn right Achilles, torn left ACL)

Recovery: Thompson tore his ACL on June 13, 2019, in Game 6 of the NBA Finals against the Toronto Raptors. Thompson missed the entire 2019-20 season recovering from the ACL tear, only to tear his left Achilles during an offseason workout in November 2020. Thompson, who has not played in an NBA game in more than 800 days, said at media day that "I'm probably like 75 or 80 percentile of what I need to do."

Return: Warriors general manager Bob Myers said recently that the organization doesn't want to put a firm date on Thompson's return after two serious injuries, but noted that the organization is hopeful that Thompson will come to the team in December or January and say he's ready -- in consultation with the Warriors' medical staff.


Kawhi Leonard (partially torn right ACL)

Recovery: The Clippers' franchise player thought he was fine after an awkward landing in Game 4 against the Utah Jazz in the Western Conference semifinals on June 14. But the team kept him out of the final minutes of the fourth quarter and Leonard never returned. Leonard was eventually diagnosed with a partial tear of his right ACL and underwent surgery on July 13.

Return: Leonard is expected to miss a good chunk of time but revealed he signed a long-term contract with the Clippers in hopes of returning this season. Had he taken a shorter-term deal like a one-plus-one deal, Leonard said he likely would not have tried to come back this season to minimize risk.


Giannis Antetokounmpo (hyperextended left knee)

Recovery: Antetokounmpo hyperextended his knee during Game 4 of the Eastern Conference finals against the Atlanta Hawks, and although he played each game of the NBA Finals, it's unclear how much he's still dealing with the lingering effects of that injury. He told a Greek television channel recently that his knee was "still hurting," but he said he felt good at the start of Bucks training camp while acknowledging he will need to listen to his body early on. The Bucks held him out of their first 5-on-5 practice last Tuesday.

Return: It's unclear whether this injury will cause Antetokounmpo to miss any time during the regular season, but the Bucks are likely going to manage him carefully as he ramps up during the preseason.


Zion Williamson (right foot fracture)

Recovery: Pelicans executive vice president of basketball operations David Griffin surprised many when he announced at media day that Williamson had offseason surgery for a fractured foot. Williamson was injured participating in on-court offseason work prior to summer league. The injury occurred to Williamson's right foot -- the same leg where he suffered a knee injury that delayed his NBA debut by 13 weeks during his rookie season. Pelicans coach Willie Green said Williamson was able to do walk-throughs during the first week of training camp but is still "progressing."

Return: The good news is Griffin said the team is hopeful that Williamson will be ready for opening night. Williamson himself said he expects to play in the first regular-season game as well.


Chris Paul (left wrist surgery)

Recovery: Paul was dealing with a left wrist injury during the NBA Finals that he played through, despite denying at the time that it was an issue. Paul had surgery on the wrist during the offseason and said at media day that he had been rehabbing for the past six or seven weeks.

Return: Phoenix general manager James Jones said at media day that Paul was fully cleared for the start of the regular season.

Dario Saric tore his ACL during the NBA Finals and is expected to miss the season.


Pascal Siakam (torn labrum in left shoulder)

Recovery: After missing the final four games of the 2020-21 regular season with a left shoulder strain, Siakam underwent surgery to repair a torn labrum in June. The Raptors initially announced a five-month rehab process, which would sideline him through the start of the regular season.

Return: Toronto general manager Bobby Webster said at media day that Siakam is doing 1-on-0 drills but has yet to be cleared for full contact. Most likely, he'll miss at least the beginning of the regular season.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Looks like Kyrie Irving is the last unvacc'd holdout. Wiggins got his shot. Nets will make a run without him, but I think they need him to get to the Finals.

Injury updates:

NBA preseason - Injury updates on Klay Thompson, Zion Williamson, Kawhi Leonard and more (espn.com)


Klay Thompson (torn right Achilles, torn left ACL)

Recovery: Thompson tore his ACL on June 13, 2019, in Game 6 of the NBA Finals against the Toronto Raptors. Thompson missed the entire 2019-20 season recovering from the ACL tear, only to tear his left Achilles during an offseason workout in November 2020. Thompson, who has not played in an NBA game in more than 800 days, said at media day that "I'm probably like 75 or 80 percentile of what I need to do."

Return: Warriors general manager Bob Myers said recently that the organization doesn't want to put a firm date on Thompson's return after two serious injuries, but noted that the organization is hopeful that Thompson will come to the team in December or January and say he's ready -- in consultation with the Warriors' medical staff.


Kawhi Leonard (partially torn right ACL)

Recovery: The Clippers' franchise player thought he was fine after an awkward landing in Game 4 against the Utah Jazz in the Western Conference semifinals on June 14. But the team kept him out of the final minutes of the fourth quarter and Leonard never returned. Leonard was eventually diagnosed with a partial tear of his right ACL and underwent surgery on July 13.

Return: Leonard is expected to miss a good chunk of time but revealed he signed a long-term contract with the Clippers in hopes of returning this season. Had he taken a shorter-term deal like a one-plus-one deal, Leonard said he likely would not have tried to come back this season to minimize risk.


Giannis Antetokounmpo (hyperextended left knee)

Recovery: Antetokounmpo hyperextended his knee during Game 4 of the Eastern Conference finals against the Atlanta Hawks, and although he played each game of the NBA Finals, it's unclear how much he's still dealing with the lingering effects of that injury. He told a Greek television channel recently that his knee was "still hurting," but he said he felt good at the start of Bucks training camp while acknowledging he will need to listen to his body early on. The Bucks held him out of their first 5-on-5 practice last Tuesday.

Return: It's unclear whether this injury will cause Antetokounmpo to miss any time during the regular season, but the Bucks are likely going to manage him carefully as he ramps up during the preseason.


Zion Williamson (right foot fracture)

Recovery: Pelicans executive vice president of basketball operations David Griffin surprised many when he announced at media day that Williamson had offseason surgery for a fractured foot. Williamson was injured participating in on-court offseason work prior to summer league. The injury occurred to Williamson's right foot -- the same leg where he suffered a knee injury that delayed his NBA debut by 13 weeks during his rookie season. Pelicans coach Willie Green said Williamson was able to do walk-throughs during the first week of training camp but is still "progressing."

Return: The good news is Griffin said the team is hopeful that Williamson will be ready for opening night. Williamson himself said he expects to play in the first regular-season game as well.


Chris Paul (left wrist surgery)

Recovery: Paul was dealing with a left wrist injury during the NBA Finals that he played through, despite denying at the time that it was an issue. Paul had surgery on the wrist during the offseason and said at media day that he had been rehabbing for the past six or seven weeks.

Return: Phoenix general manager James Jones said at media day that Paul was fully cleared for the start of the regular season.

Dario Saric tore his ACL during the NBA Finals and is expected to miss the season.


Pascal Siakam (torn labrum in left shoulder)

Recovery: After missing the final four games of the 2020-21 regular season with a left shoulder strain, Siakam underwent surgery to repair a torn labrum in June. The Raptors initially announced a five-month rehab process, which would sideline him through the start of the regular season.

Return: Toronto general manager Bobby Webster said at media day that Siakam is doing 1-on-0 drills but has yet to be cleared for full contact. Most likely, he'll miss at least the beginning of the regular season.

This is where losing Dinwiddie hurts. I dont think they need Kyrie, but I think they really should find a way to get a complimentative #3. I dont know how, when or even if Kyrie will be really trade, but I think even taking pennies on the dollar moving him should bring back a strong enough player to thrive with Durant, Harden.

How many players in the NBA would a combo of Durant and Harden make exponentially better? Alot IMO. A guy like Buddy Heild would absolutely kill with those two. Problem for the next is if Kyrie really will retire, he isnt really tradeable. Its a real mess for them right now

 

[jterrell]

Not much to say about Kyrie other than he is crazier than a bed bug and has taken to putting everything before team results to the point of just being a contrarian.

If KD and Harden are healthy it won't matter anyway.