Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[Cythim]

If you want to talk about rights, you are talking about laws, and you better have an understanding of legal terms.

You have now introduced an actual legal term – detain. If there is any proof that Zimmerman detained the deceased, Zimmerman is screwed. Do you have such proof?

Don't talk down to me as if I am the one confusing terms. You couldn't figure out the difference between following and pursuing until I pointed it out for you. Are you being purposely obtuse? Zimmerman following Treyvon became unlawful when Treyvon realized he was being followed and fled in fear. At this point it becomes harassment because Treyvon perceives Zimmerman to be a threat. (Harassment? Yeah, the legal term you ignored when I mentioned it a few pages back.) This is different from police following a suspect because police have that right while in the line of duty (in other words, police following a suspect is not considered harassment, it is doing their job).

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I’m thinking that without any eye witness that saw how the physical violence unfolded, it is difficult to find the person guilty of murder.

The police were sloppy, no question. But I’m still not sure they could of pressed such serious charges even if they were more with it.

You talk about laws, but you obviously have no idea how the system works. Probable cause has a relatively low standard when it comes to arresting someone. It's not like beyond a reasonable doubt or even a preponderance of evidence....

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Don't talk down to me as if I am the one confusing terms. You couldn't figure out the difference between following and pursuing until I pointed it out for you.

From a legal perspective, you are talking out of your ***. There is no legal difference between following and pusuing.

Are you being purposely obtuse? Zimmerman following Treyvon became unlawful when Treyvon realized he was being followed and fled in fear

If it is so cut and dry unlawful, why was Zimmerman free to go?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

You talk about laws, but you obviously have no idea how the system works. Probable cause has a relatively low standard when it comes to arresting someone. It's not like beyond a reasonable doubt or even a preponderance of evidence....

How does any of what you wrote pertain to what I wrote

 

[Eric_Boyer]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ing-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story


more to the story is coming out, and it just might make the majority of you look like huge .

 

[Cythim]

From a legal perspective, you are talking out of your ***. There is no legal difference between following and pusuing.

SMH. We have already gone through the fact that these are not legal terms. U.S. vs Pineda-Moreno, the cops followed him to gather evidence. They didn't pursue him until they had the evidence needed. When someone flees from a crime scene it is pursuit in progress, not following in progress. They are not legal terms, they are actions taken to fulfill legal obligations.

If it is so cut and dry unlawful, why was Zimmerman free to go?

because the SPD failed to do their job.

Now keep a civil tongue or we can finish the conversation right here.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I’m thinking that without any eye witness that saw how the physical violence unfolded, it is difficult to find the person guilty of murder.

The police were sloppy, no question. But I’m still not sure they could of pressed such serious charges even if they were more with it.

Because of the SPD failure to do an arrest and perhaps just taking GZ's word of Self Defense and therefore not properly collecting evidence on the scene.


ZImmer Gun, did they test for Blood Spatter, Did they do an autopsy on Trayvon to check the at what angle the bullet went into his body? To see where Zimmerman was and where Trayvon was when the shot went off? Gun Powder? Now any evidence may be lost.

The SPD's just seems eager to take Zimmermans word for it and closed the case. The SPD using the excuse now that they can't arrest Zimmerman because he said that it was in Self Defense and that means by FL law that they can't arrest GZ?

I guess anyone caught in a murder in FL can use that logic to get off easily. The SPD is ignoring witness accounts and dismissing witness accounts and soley is taking GZ's word for it, what kind of Police department are they? How many Police departments are going to ignore witness accounts and just take the word of the killer?

The SPD is actig more like GZ"s defense team than they are a Police Department, they need to do the proper job in arresting, collecting evidence, and taking witness accounts and leave the defense of Zimmerman to his lawyers.

 

[Cythim]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ing-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story


more to the story is coming out, and it just might make the majority of you look like huge *******s.

How do you figure? It doesn't say anything we do not already know. Zimmerman's father is giving us Zimmerman's story but obviously does not know the truth because he claims Zimmerman never followed when Zimmerman told us on the 911 tape that he did, indeed, follow. Discredited.

 

[JonJon]

Portion on Zimmerman's fathers statement:

The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate. Out of respect for the on-going investigation, I will not discuss specifics. However, the media reports of the events are imaginary at best. At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event become public, and I hope that will be soon, everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media.

Oh really...so Zimmerman was just lying to the police when he said he was following Trayvon, then? Or was Zimmerman lying to his father, who naturally bought every word of his story?

Doesn't add up...

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

We already have 911 tapes by GZ himself that says he was following Trayvon. GZ's father knows that his son is getting a public lashing and is trying to cover up for him. GZ was following Trayvon by admitting that he was following him even though the operator told him not to he still followed. Plus he said that Trayvon as running away.

GZ ran down Trayvon and Trayvon felt cornered wondering why this strange man was following him and fought back. The stand your ground should apply more to Trayvon since GZ tracked him down and invaded his personal space.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

How do you figure? It doesn't say anything we do not already know. Zimmerman's father is giving us Zimmerman's story but obviously does not know the truth because he claims Zimmerman never followed when Zimmerman told us on the 911 tape that he did, indeed, follow. Discredited.

this is new:


Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

this is new:


Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

I don't know I would the word of a Police Department who won't even make an arrest when someone is killed and just takes the word of the killer without a real or proper investgation.

Not trusting anything with the SPD right now, they earned the distrust by the mishandling of the case. This proves how they are trying to play as GZ's defense over doing thier job as a Police department. If it's true that she gave two different accounts than let it go to trail as it should and let GZ's lawyer cross examine her.

But I don't know why we are asked to trust the word of a Department that clearly did not do their jobs. So it doesn't surprise anyone that they are trying to cover their tracks knowing that they are in Hot water.

When one of the biggest issues against the SPD is that they just took GZ's word and didn't even try for an arrest or the proper collection of evidence. Why was GZ allowed to keep his gun if it's true that he was allowed to keep it and why was the gun not taken in for testing?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

I don't know I would the word of a Police Department who won't even make an arrest when someone is killed and just takes the word of the killer without a real or proper investgation.

Not trusting anything with the SPD right now, they earned the distrust by the mishandling of the case. This proves how they are trying to play as GZ's defense over doing thier job as a Police department. If it's true that she gave two different accounts than let it go to trail as it should and let GZ's lawyer cross examine her.

But I don't know why we are asked to trust the word of a Department that clearly did not do their jobs. So it doesn't surprise anyone that they are trying to cover their tracks knowing that they are in Hot water.

When one of the biggest issues against the SPD is that they just took GZ's word and didn't even try for an arrest or the proper collection of evidence. Why was GZ allowed to keep his gun if it's true that he was allowed to keep it and why was the gun not taken in for testing?

they didn't just take his word, the statements from people around match what he said.

For instance, one witness saw for sure that Zimmerman and only Zimmerman was on the ground. If the teen wasn't the aggressor, why didn't he leave at this point, he knocked the guy to the ground?

Zimmerman also said he cried for help, and nobody would come. This indicates that not only did he cry for help, but he saw people around and wanted there help.

 

[JonJon]

I don't know I would the word of a Police Department who won't even make an arrest when someone is killed and just takes the word of the killer without a real or proper investgation.

Not trusting anything with the SPD right now, they earned the distrust by the mishandling of the case. This proves how they are trying to play as GZ's defense over doing thier job as a Police department. If it's true that she gave two different accounts than let it go to trail as it should and let GZ's lawyer cross examine her.

But I don't know why we are asked to trust the word of a Department that clearly did not do their jobs. So it doesn't surprise anyone that they are trying to cover their tracks knowing that they are in Hot water.

When one of the biggest issues against the SPD is that they just took GZ's word and didn't even try for an arrest or the proper collection of evidence. Why was GZ allowed to keep his gun if it's true that he was allowed to keep it and why was the gun not taken in for testing?

Exactly. Take it to trial. There is reason to doubt Zimmerman's claim and the police department that is apparently supporting his actions. If there is sufficient evidence to support Zimmerman's claim that it was in fact self-defense, then he walks. If not, then he should go to prison. But at least do due diligence in this investigation and let the court system handle this case just as they would any other potential homicide investigation.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

they didn't just take his word, the statements from people around match what he said.

For instance, one witness saw for sure that Zimmerman and only Zimmerman was on the ground. If the teen wasn't the aggressor, why didn't he leave at this point, he knocked the guy to the ground?

Zimmerman also said he cried for help, and nobody would come. This indicates that not only did he cry for help, but he saw people around and wanted there help.

And others stated that Zimmerman was standing over the Boy's Body and that it was the Kid crying for help.

Sorry nothing justifys or excuses the SPD's failure to do thier job collect evidence from Both sides and processing it and having the case go to trail. Zimmerman followed the Kid now anyone can start a fight and if they are losing shoot someone and claim Self Defense?

If you get punched too hard now that's a good reason to shoot? Because you are losing a fist fight that you started?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

And others stated that Zimmerman was standing over the Boy's Body and that it was the Kid crying for help.

Sorry nothing justifys or excuses the SPD's failure to do thier job collect evidence from Both sides and processing it and having the case go to trail. Zimmerman followed the Kid now anyone can start a fight and if they are losing shoot someone and claim Self Defense?

If you get punched too hard now that's a good reason to shoot? Because you are losing a fist fight that you started?

the person that claimed this was named Mary Cutcher, my article dealt with it. What she said to the media conflicts with the sworn testimony she gave the police.

you are on record basically just going to ignore what the police say, so I see no real reason to continue a discussion with you. your mind is closed.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

the person that claimed this was named Mary Cutcher, my article dealt with it. What she said to the media conflicts with the sworn testimony she gave the police.

you are on record basically just going to ignore what the police say, so I see no real reason to continue a discussion with you. your mind is closed.

alright call it closed minded if that's what you want to do. Again why should I or anyone believe the word of a department who won't even make an arrest and let the court system handle it?

Not all Police are truthful and honest with what they are saying and it can be considered "Close minded" to think that the Police are 100% honest, truthful, and innocent all of the time and that they never lie or commit injustice themselves

 

[Noryb]

they didn't just take his word, the statements from people around match what he said.

For instance, one witness saw for sure that Zimmerman and only Zimmerman was on the ground. If the teen wasn't the aggressor, why didn't he leave at this point, he knocked the guy to the ground?

Zimmerman also said he cried for help, and nobody would come. This indicates that not only did he cry for help, but he saw people around and wanted there help.

Did you hear the 911 tapes? That was Trayvon yelling for help.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Did you hear the 911 tapes? That was Trayvon yelling for help.

how do you figure?

 

[Noryb]

the person that claimed this was named Mary Cutcher, my article dealt with it. What she said to the media conflicts with the sworn testimony she gave the police.

you are on record basically just going to ignore what the police say, so I see no real reason to continue a discussion with you. your mind is closed.

Furthermore, ABC News reported on Tuesday that one of the responding officers “corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.” And The Miami Herald published an article on Thursday that said three witnesses had heard the “desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/blow-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martin.html