Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[Cythim]

where do police get the power to pursue?

in a free and just society, you can't transfer rights to others that you do not possess yourself. It is this concept that preserves things like citizens arrest as well.

It's sad that we are losing sight of the logic behind our laws

Police have the power to pursue someone who has broken the law, they can't just stop you because you "look suspicious." You can pursue as well under the same circumstance but it is advised that you do not because you lack the training and equipment that the police have to deal with the situation properly. Treyvon did nothing to warrant a pursuit or confrontation by a cop or a wanna-be cop.

It's sad that you are refusing logic in an attempt to be right. Zimmerman did not have a right to chase down a kid who committed no crime and kill him after losing a fight. If it had been a cop who did it the outcry would be the same, or worse since we expect better from those who are supposed to serve and protect.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Police have the power to pursue someone who has broken the law

they can pursue anybody they find suspicious. They do not need to be certain a law was broken to tail a suspect. where do you get these silly notions?

 

[Cythim]

they can pursue anybody they find suspicious. They do not need to be certain a law was broken to tail a suspect. where do you get these silly notions?

Pursuit is not following, it is actively chasing. How do you keep confusing the two?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Pursuit is not following, it is actively chasing. How do you keep confusing the two?

please link to a legal definition that contrasts the two terms (ideally from a Florida, but I'm going to be super nice and allow any state's definition to apply)

 

[Afigueroa22]

they can't just stop you because you "look suspicious." .

Come to California and be brown for a week, you will see. It's not about the color of the cop either. Black cops and Hispanic cops pull the same crap as the White cops.

 

[Cythim]

please link to a legal definition that contrasts the two terms (ideally from a Florida, but I'm going to be super nice and allow any state's definition to apply)

You do not need a legal definition to know that following and pursuing are two different actions.

 

[JonJon]

Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted and obsessive attention by an individual or group to another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person and/or monitoring them. The word stalking is used, with some differing meanings, in psychology and psychiatry and also in some legal jurisdictions as a term for a criminal offense.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

You do not need a legal definition to know that following and pursuing are two different actions.

unless you have a legal definition to back your opinion up, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/pursuit?s=ts

 

[WV Cowboy]

Haven't kept up with this case, .. but I have bounced through this thread.

What are the disagreements about? What are people saying ... that :

1) the security guy knew this kid and sought him out and killed him?

2) the security guy jumped to conclusions because the kid was a young black male?

3) the kid threatened the security guy because of a lack of respect for authority?

What does it look like happened?

 

[Cythim]

unless you have a legal definition to back your opinion up, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/pursuit?s=ts

Who needs a legal definition? I am talking in plain English. Do you follow happiness or do you pursue it? Do you follow a higher education or do you pursue it? Do you pursue the leader or follow the leader? Do you play Trivial Pursuit or Trivial Follow? Do you follow a relationship or pursue a relationship?

pur·sue   
verb (used with object)
1. to follow in order to overtake, capture, kill, etc.; chase.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pursue

fol·low
verb (used with object)
2. to go or come after; move behind in the same direction
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/follow

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Haven't kept up with this case, .. but I have bounced through this thread.

What are the disagreements about? What are people saying ... that :

1) the security guy knew this kid and sought him out and killed him?

2) the security guy jumped to conclusions because the kid was a young black male?

3) the kid threatened the security guy because of a lack of respect for authority?

What does it look like happened?

I mostly pointed out that everything we are reading about is coming from the family of the deceased so it is biased.

Apparently, if you are unwilling to have a flaming pitchfork in hand, you are a troll.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Who needs a legal definition?

people arguing about the law :bang2:

 

[JonJon]

Haven't kept up with this case, .. but I have bounced through this thread.

What are the disagreements about? What are people saying ... that :

1) the security guy knew this kid and sought him out and killed him?

2) the security guy jumped to conclusions because the kid was a young black male?

3) the kid threatened the security guy because of a lack of respect for authority?

What does it look like happened?

First, the security guy wasn't even a security guy. He was a self-proclaimed neighborhood watch captain, that has called 911 46 times since January 2012.

On the night in question, he saw 17 year old Trayvon walking home, called 911 and reported a "suspicious person" in the area. Trayvon, who was in the area visiting his dad, was returning home from the store where he purchased skittles and a can of iced tea. Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon as he spoke with 911, who told him not to do that and they would send someone by.

Trayvon notices Zimmerman following him and starts running away. Zimmerman gets out of his car and follows Trayvon. Zimmerman then catches up with Trayvon, corners him, and starts interrogating him about what he is doing there.

An altercation breaks out between the two. Neighbors call 911 to report an altercation where a boy can be heard screaming "Help." A gunshot goes off and Trayvon is dead. The police arrive on the scene, and Zimmerman says he acted in self defense and is not arrested.

Zimmerman had a gun. Trayvon had a pack of skittles.

 

[Cythim]

people arguing about the law :bang2:

Follow and pursue are not legal terms, they are simple English. Pursuit implies catching to detain, and the police cannot do so without probable cause.

 

[JonJon]

Haven't kept up with this case, .. but I have bounced through this thread.

What are the disagreements about? What are people saying ... that :

1) the security guy knew this kid and sought him out and killed him?

2) the security guy jumped to conclusions because the kid was a young black male?

3) the kid threatened the security guy because of a lack of respect for authority?

What does it look like happened?

Better yet, just watch the video:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...05736#46806299

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Follow and pursue are not legal terms, they are simple English. Pursuit implies catching to detain, and the police cannot do so without probable cause.

If you want to talk about rights, you are talking about laws, and you better have an understanding of legal terms.

You have now introduced an actual legal term – detain. If there is any proof that Zimmerman detained the deceased, Zimmerman is screwed. Do you have such proof?

 

[WV Cowboy]

I mostly pointed out that everything we are reading about is coming from the family of the deceased so it is biased.

Apparently, if you are unwilling to have a flaming pitchfork in hand, you are a troll.

So you are thinking that maybe the security guy was justified?

First, the security guy wasn't even a security guy. He was a self-proclaimed neighborhood watch captain, that has called 911 46 times since January 2012.

On the night in question, he saw 17 year old Trayvon walking home, called 911 and reported a "suspicious person" in the area. Trayvon, who was in the area visiting his dad, was returning home from the store where he purchased skittles and a can of iced tea. Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon as he spoke with 911, who told him not to do that and they would send someone by.

Trayvon notices Zimmerman following him and starts running away. Zimmerman gets out of his car and follows Trayvon. Zimmerman then catches up with Trayvon, corners him, and starts interrogating him about what he is doing there.

An altercation breaks out between the two. Neighbors call 911 to report an altercation where a boy can be heard screaming "Help." A gunshot goes off and Trayvon is dead. The police arrive on the scene, and Zimmerman says he acted in self defense and is not arrested.

Zimmerman had a gun. Trayvon had a pack of skittles.

And you are thinking that the security guy over-reacted because ... for whatever reason, ... maybe the kid was black?

 

[JonJon]

So you are thinking that maybe the security guy was justified?



And you are thinking that the security guy over-reacted because ... for whatever reason, ... maybe the kid was black?

No, but there are those who do. I've already said in this thread that for me, race is not the factor. The factor is that a man kills an innocent kid and no arrest is made. The blatant disregard of proper protocol by the police department is what bothers me. I think that he (Zimmerman) was overly paranoid and suffers from some mental condition.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

So you are thinking that maybe the security guy was justified?

I’m thinking that without any eye witness that saw how the physical violence unfolded, it is difficult to find the person guilty of murder.

The police were sloppy, no question. But I’m still not sure they could of pressed such serious charges even if they were more with it.

 

[WV Cowboy]

No, but there are those who do. I've already said in this thread that for me, race is not the factor. The factor is that a man kills an innocent kid and no arrest is made. The blatant disregard of proper protocol by the police department is what bothers me. I think that he (Zimmerman) was overly paranoid and suffers from some mental condition.

I’m thinking that without any eye witness that saw how the physical violence unfolded, it is difficult to find the person guilty of murder.

The police were sloppy, no question. But I’m still not sure they could of pressed such serious charges even if they were more with it.

OK, thanks for both of your responses.

Can't imagine what the boys parents are going through, .. everybody kiss your kids tonight.

Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.