Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[iceberg]

yes, a part of it. he didn't see who started it, but he did see Zimmerman alone on the ground.

then why didn't HE run away? you give a lot of leeway to zimmerman but none to the victim. i really don't care how you spin it the ultimate responsibility for this comes to zimmerman for forcing an altercation he was told NOT to get into.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Yet other witnesses said that they thought that Trayvon was screaming for his life. I don't see how this doesn't excuse the SPD from arresting Zimmerman and doing a proper investigation and letting it go to court.


Instead they dismiss and ignore the witnesses who say that it may have been Trayvon screaming for help

again, the police did seem to suck big time this night. I am usually the guy in these threads throwing the police under the bus, and called a troll for playing that role, so this is an interesting reversal of roles for me.

they screwed the investigation up. no question. But I still have not found any evidence that would allow Zimmerman to be found guilty of anything.

until I do, I am going with the blackstone ratio solution.

one of the biggest questions I have, is where did this incident take place in relation to where Zimmermans truck was parked.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

then why didn't HE run away? you give a lot of leeway to zimmerman but none to the victim. i really don't care how you spin it the ultimate responsibility for this comes to zimmerman for forcing an altercation he was told NOT to get into.

why didn't the guy bleeding on the ground run away?

and he was not told not to do anything. he was told they did not need him to do anything. huge difference.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

again, the police did seem to suck big time this night. I am usually the guy in these threads throwing the police under the bus, and called a troll for playing that role, so this is an interesting reversal of roles for me.

they screwed the investigation up. no question. But I still have not found any evidence that would allow Zimmerman to be found guilty of anything.

until I do, I am going with the blackstone ratio solution.

one of the biggest questions I have, is where did this incident take place in relation to where Zimmermans truck was parked.

Well I think that any family in such a case that loses a loved one should get the respect of at least having the case go on trail.

There might not be any evidence to you, but the problem is that if the SPD just took GZ's word for it and didn't do a proper investigation, take GZ's Gun, do a test for Gun powder, Blood spatter, the trajectory of the bullet into the kids body etc....anything that could really tell if it was self defense or not.

It's just like they took his word for it and that's it. A proper investigation would be taking evidence and statements from all sides and letting the court system handle it. Seems like the SPD is acting more like GZ's defense team.

 

[iceberg]

why didn't the guy bleeding on the ground run away?

and he was not told not to do anything. he was told they did not need him to do anything. huge difference.

you sure like to find any port in a storm for this kid.

and yea, from what i read in the orlando article you pointed to, they say they don't know how the altercation started. i also get a kick out of the fathers quote:

""At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin."

really. so why get out of the SUV? stretch your legs? if he didn't follow or confront the victim, then how did the fight even start? if he didn't follow the kid, then why was the kid on the phone telling his girlfriend someone WAS following him?

his father contradicts just about everything with that single statement. at this point there are more holes in his story than all the coral reefs in the ocean.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

really. so why get out of the SUV? stretch your legs?

Zimmerman is on record claiming he got out to look at the street sign as he was no longer sure the street name he was on.

is this a lie? maybe

it is partially why I would like to know where the truck was in relation to this incident

 

[iceberg]

Zimmerman is on record claiming he got out to look at the street sign as he was no longer sure the street name he was on.

is this a lie? maybe

it is partially why I would like to know where the truck was in relation to this incident

he wasn't sure of which street he was on in a neighborhood he lives in and watches like a hawk?

and again - then why did trayvon while talking to his girlfriend say someone was following him. was she lying? we *do* have a witness who was speaking to trayvon at the time who validated that he WAS following.

 

[Noryb]

why didn't the guy bleeding on the ground run away?

and he was not told not to do anything. he was told they did not need him to do anything. huge difference.

He only saw one person on the ground that doesn't mean that Trayvon was not on the ground with him. It was dark!

I just find it highly unlikely that this kid went from running away from GZ to viciously attacking him in a matter of minutes. I agree with Zrin, I think GZ tried to retain him and the kid started fighting and yelling for help because he had no idea who this psycho was.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Looks like Zimmerman is the bad guy in all of this.

But I bet he would have reacted the same if it was a long haired white guy walking around his "turf" at night.

Wannabe cops like him love the feeling of power and are very territorial.

I cannot stand race baiting posters who try to find crap in every case.

Feh, I don't think it was based on race either FWIW. I posted earlier in the thread. The problem is people in the positions, having guns, and not having any qualifications. You don't just give a gun and badge-to-kill-someone to a neighborhood watching wanna-be. Even more so, half the cops aren't qualified to be cops. They go to some candy *** academy and viola, now he's a cop with an agenda.

I mean, what are the qualifications to be on hood watch with a gun?

 

[Noryb]

he wasn't sure of which street he was on in a neighborhood he lives in and watches like a hawk?

and again - then why did trayvon while talking to his girlfriend say someone was following him. was she lying? we *do* have a witness who was speaking to trayvon at the time who validated that he WAS following.

Zimmerman admitted to the 911 operator that he was indeed following him, that's not debatable.

 

[iceberg]

Zimmerman admitted to the 911 operator that he was indeed following him, that's not debatable.

then his father lied his *** off.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

we *do* have a witness who was speaking to trayvon at the time who validated that he WAS following.

at this time, we have 911 tapes, and the girl recounting the conversation. that private call has not been released has it?

 

[iceberg]

at this time, we have 911 tapes, and the girl recounting the conversation. that private call has not been released has it?

so are you denying there was an admission by zimmerman he ws following "the suspect"?

at one point i thought we were all in agreement he was. you seem to be backtracking now.

but if it hasn't been released, damn shame how everyone knows about it.

well except you.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

then his father lied his *** off.

The father is defending his child, obviously.

 

[VietCowboy]

at this time, we have 911 tapes, and the girl recounting the conversation. that private call has not been released has it?

Do you record all your phone calls?

Besides, he said he was following the kid and yet later told the police that he wasn't and somehow Treyvon ambushed him as he was returning to the car. I think that was in the original statement, when Treyvon was John Doe and the police didn't do anything because they didn't care enough and likely thought Treyvon was a thug. Now, evidence is surfacing that GZ has been lying on many things.

 

[JonJon]

he wasn't sure of which street he was on in a neighborhood he lives in and watches like a hawk?

and again - then why did trayvon while talking to his girlfriend say someone was following him. was she lying? we *do* have a witness who was speaking to trayvon at the time who validated that he WAS following.

He gave the address already when he first called 911, so it makes no sense for him to get out to check the street sign after the 911 call had already ended.

 

[iceberg]

The father is defending his child, obviously.

Do you record all your phone calls?

Besides, he said he was following the kid and yet later told the police that he wasn't and somehow Treyvon ambushed him as he was returning to the car. I think that was in the original statement, when Treyvon was John Doe and the police didn't do anything because they didn't care enough and likely thought Treyvon was a thug. Now, evidence is surfacing that GZ has been lying on many things.

He gave the address already when he first called 911, so it makes no sense for him to get out to check the street sign after the 911 call had already ended.

get back people, it's raining facts now.

zimmerman is recanting just bout everything he's said so far and seems to be making it up as we go but hey, he should be believed cause "no one saw it".

except 1 kid who validated zimmerman was on the ground. how did he get on the ground so far from his SUV if he wasn't following travyon.

but hey, no one was there to see it so now what? according to eric nothing should be done cause nothing was directly seen.

wow. i can think of a ton of killings where "no one saw" the killer but they convicted him anyway.

 

[TheCount]

the one mistake he did make though, is at some point he had beaten Zimmerman down to the ground. Zimmerman and only Zimmerman remained on the ground. The teen apparently did not take this opportunity to leave and taking such an action could very well of been the difference between living and dying.

Let's assume that's true. Zimmerman has been overpowered, is on the ground alone and Martin is standing over him. This would mean they had been seperated and, at least for the moment, the fight was at a standstill.

At this point, Zimmerman pulls out his gun and shoots Martin? Why?

 

[Eric_Boyer]

so are you denying there was an admission by zimmerman he ws following "the suspect"?

at one point i thought we were all in agreement he was. you seem to be backtracking now.

but if it hasn't been released, damn shame how everyone knows about it.

well except you.

the private conversation has not been released. If you believe it has, show me it.

We know that at one point he was following him. Zimmerman claims he stopped and went back to his truck. He might be lying. He might not be. Do you have any evidence, I don’t. Once any of his statement can be proven to be a lie, his entire defense crumbles.

My argument remains that he is legally allowed to follow a person in public. That alone would not justify the teen attacking him. That is a separate debate then the one about matching Zimmerman’s claims with what actually took place.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Do you record all your phone calls?

Besides, he said he was following the kid and yet later told the police that he wasn't and somehow Treyvon ambushed him as he was returning to the car. I think that was in the original statement, when Treyvon was John Doe and the police didn't do anything because they didn't care enough and likely thought Treyvon was a thug. Now, evidence is surfacing that GZ has been lying on many things.

the police have that call though as it was given to them by the family of the deceased.