Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

CowboyMcCoy

Business is a Boomin
Messages
12,749
Reaction score
235
iceberg;4480950 said:
what we don't need is the average citizen getting their news off the internet deciding legal policy.

Legal policy, at least amongst most police departments, would be to arrest this guy and let him stand trial. Murder is often difficult to prove anyway. It would be especially in this case. That doesn't mean he should not at least face trial.
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
CowboyMcCoy;4480930 said:
Cop: "At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place."

Zimmerman stated, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."

That sounds like a scared defendant looking at possible murder charges.

Also, if his head was being thrust into concrete, I'd expect more serious injuries. My guess is he tried to detain him and Trayvon wasn't having it..just like most posters aboard wouldn't take that lightly... I sure wouldn't.

you expect whatever it takes to bolster a formed opinion. any info you twist or ignore.

to the "he was never taken in" crowd...

zimmerman.PNG
 

CowboyMcCoy

Business is a Boomin
Messages
12,749
Reaction score
235
03EBZ06;4480956 said:
Unless his head meet up with something even stronger, like TM's fist, a one punch knock down, lol

Yeah, because this teen was so much bigger than a large, 28 year old man.
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
CowboyMcCoy;4480958 said:
Legal policy, at least amongst most police departments, would be to arrest this guy and let him stand trial. Murder is often difficult to prove anyway. It would be especially in this case. That doesn't mean he should not at least face trial.

do all people who kill in self defense go on trial?
 

CowboyMcCoy

Business is a Boomin
Messages
12,749
Reaction score
235
iceberg;4480959 said:
you expect whatever it takes to bolster a formed opinion. any info you twist or ignore.

to the "he was never taken in" crowd...

zimmerman.PNG

He was apparently taken in and I acknowledged that. Just for the record, I hope you and I don't take this personally. Disagreements are sometimes personal by nature. I've learned to take the quote from Aristotle, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

I'm entertaining your thoughts. Because I respect you that much. I just don't accept your argument.
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
hang me if public policy says you must, but i don't believe the sanford police department acted badly here.
 

Romo_To_Dez

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,848
Reaction score
15,492
03EBZ06;4480956 said:
Unless his head meet up with something even stronger, like TM's fist, a one punch knock down, lol


It has been said that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the face, Zimmerman fell backwards and Trayvon jumped on top of him and began over and over again to bash his head into the side walk.

Well at least Zimmerman's defenders are claiming that was what Trayvon was doing.

But first I thought that Zimmerman said he was turning around walking back to his truck and that Trayvon attacked him from behind or is this an assumption of what happened by Zimmerman's defenders?

Now the lawyer says he was hit facing Trayvon and fell backwards hitting his head.

In which way was Zimmerman attacked because I don't think it can be both.
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school

can we look at trayvons history in the same manner/responsibility as we do zimmerman?

In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing “W.T.F.” on a hallway locker, according to a school report obtained by the Herald. A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found women’s rings and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a “burglary tool.”

----------------------
not damning, but a valid piece. you either see all the pieces or only the most shiney.
 

Romo_To_Dez

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,848
Reaction score
15,492
iceberg;4480969 said:
hang me if public policy says you must, but i don't believe the sanford police department acted badly here.


No one's going to hang you but many disagree.
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
Romo_To_Dez;4480972 said:
It has been said that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the face, Zimmerman fell backwards and Trayvon jumped on top of him and began over and over again to bash his head into the side walk.

Well at least Zimmerman's defenders are claiming that was what Trayvon was doing.

But first I thought that Zimmerman said he was turning around walking back to his truck and that Trayvon attacked him from behind or is this an assumption of what happened by Zimmerman's defenders?

Now the lawyer says he was hit facing Trayvon and fell backwards hitting his head.

In which way was Zimmerman attacked because I don't think it can be both.

do me 1 favor - pretend you're defending zimmerman.

now what happened?
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
Romo_To_Dez;4480976 said:
No one's going to hang you but many disagree.

and that's fine. but come back with facts, not emotion and grief.
 

Romo_To_Dez

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,848
Reaction score
15,492
iceberg;4480975 said:
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school

can we look at trayvons history in the same manner/responsibility as we do zimmerman?

In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing “W.T.F.” on a hallway locker, according to a school report obtained by the Herald. A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found women’s rings and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a “burglary tool.”

----------------------
not damning, but a valid piece. you either see all the pieces or only the most shiney.


If you must but that suspension and the suspension for weed residue wouldn't be important to the case. Especially not the bag being found unless he was tested positive for drugs that night. They investigators will just look at events surrounding that night.
 

CowboyMcCoy

Business is a Boomin
Messages
12,749
Reaction score
235
iceberg;4480969 said:
hang me if public policy says you must, but i don't believe the sanford police department acted badly here.

Consider yourself hung in my mind. :p

On a side, I assume you sent this to me to provide an objective insight that maybe Trayvon was mischaracterized.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school

If that wasn't your point, I'm having a hard time getting what it is. Him being suspended for missing class and wring "W.T.F" on a locker isn't really indicative of him being violent. If anything, it shows he's a young kid who made some silly mistakes.

On the other hand, Zimmerman has a history of violence, has been arrested and likely has some insight on how to respond to situations where he is accused by police.

Another question I have for anyone is, do neighborhood watch programs do any sort of background check? If not, I think the topic bears attention legislative. That along with the stand your ground laws.
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
CowboyMcCoy;4480983 said:
Consider yourself hung in my mind. :p

.

bye.

i won't even read the rest. i respect your opinion and will normally listen.

til you do the same in return, i just don't care.

night.
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
CowboyMcCoy;4480983 said:
Consider yourself hung in my mind. :p

On a side, I assume you sent this to me to provide an objective insight that maybe Trayvon was mischaracterized.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school

If that wasn't your point, I'm having a hard time getting what it is. Him being suspended for missing class and wring "W.T.F" on a locker isn't really indicative of him being violent. If anything, it shows he's a young kid who made some silly mistakes.

On the other hand, Zimmerman has a history of violence, has been arrested and likely has some insight on how to respond to situations where he is accused by police.

Another question I have for anyone is, do neighborhood watch programs do any sort of background check? If not, I think the topic bears attention legislative. That along with the stand your ground laws.


CowboyMcCoy;4480983 said:
Consider yourself hung in my mind. :p

.

bye.

i won't even read the rest. i respect your opinion and will normally listen.

til you do the same in return, i just don't care.

he made a silly mistake but he could never make another. no.

never.

i won't talk to a closed mind
 

CowboyMcCoy

Business is a Boomin
Messages
12,749
Reaction score
235
iceberg;4480963 said:
do all people who kill in self defense go on trial?

How is chasing someone who never beat you up self-defense? If anything, Trayvon was the one defending himself and Zimmerman, as we heard in the 911 tapes, was on the offense.

Why are you unable to see that?
 

iceberg

rock music matters
Messages
34,448
Reaction score
7,961
CowboyMcCoy;4480994 said:
How is chasing someone who beat you up for chasing them self-defense. If anything, Trayvon was the one defending himself.

Why are you unable to see that?

well you should know i'm butt nugget stupid, cowboy.

so move on.
 

CliffnDallas

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
215
CowboyMcCoy;4480958 said:
Legal policy, at least amongst most police departments, would be to arrest this guy and let him stand trial. Murder is often difficult to prove anyway. It would be especially in this case. That doesn't mean he should not at least face trial.

You need to understand the law as it is in Florida. Not elsewhere.
 

Romo_To_Dez

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,848
Reaction score
15,492
iceberg;4480977 said:
do me 1 favor - pretend you're defending zimmerman.

now what happened?


If I'm a Defense lawyer for Zimmerman than I would just go along with his story and what the witness claims to have seen and paint Trayvon as the agressor.


But as far as rushing to judgment it appears that some who defend Zimmerman may have done thing with the "He jumped him from behind" defense like Zimmerman never saw it coming and was walking away back turned.

Now the lawyer says that they were face to face, so who knows what happened. We might never know who started the actual fight, just Zimmerman's word for it and the witness seeing the middle of the fight.
 

Hoofbite

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,896
Reaction score
11,621
Double Trouble;4480751 said:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw the initial punch Zimmerman told police about.

The ridiculous part about the claim that Martin attacked him and knock him on his rear and proceeded to beat him is that you can hear about 40 full seconds of screaming on the one phone call. If you consider the fact that someone would have to likely hear the screams for a few seconds before going for the phone, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that whoever was screaming was doing so for a full minute.

So, Trayvon dropped him quick and then bashed his head into the pavement but then what? That's only about 5 seconds worth of beating, what the hell happened for the other 35+ seconds?

All the while, Zimmerman is supposedly screaming for his life and then stops screaming at the moment the shot goes off?

Seriously? I mean, come on. You're getting whipped and are seriously in fear of your life and all that fear immediately subsides with a single shot after you've been getting pummeled for an entire minute or more?

Zimmerman's story doesn't make a single bit of sense, IMO.

First of all, it was Trayvon who initiated the fight? You're telling me this kid took off running and then planned an elaborate bait and switch maneuver to get the drop on Zimmerman? The kid is in a neighborhood he doesn't know, running away from someone only knowing of a direction and he's able to disappear from sight and then somehow catch back up to Zimmerman and launch a surprise attack?

Not buying it. Why would he all of a sudden go from running scared away from Zimmerman to confronting him.

Secondly, walking back to the truck Zimmerman? You can hear on the audio that Zimmerman gets out of his car and it only takes 14 seconds before the dispatcher asks him if he is following, instructs him to stop and Zimmerman confirms. You covered so much ground in that brief 14 seconds that by the time you actually ended up hanging up with the dispatcher you still hadn't completed the walk back to your truck even though another 1:43 had passed?

And then what about all the time that passed between you hanging up and before the fight supposedly started? Still walking back to the truck and that's when Trayvon launched his highly calculated assault?

These are times I've been able to find. Zimmers call time is from his call log or whatever was posted earlier.

The first witness call time is taken from a website that correctly listed Zimmermans call but did not have a document to back it.

Zimmerman called at 7:09:34 and his phone call lasted 4:11. That puts his hangup time at 7:13:45. That puts the time at which he was directed not to follow at 7:12:02

The earliest call in for a witness occurred at 7:16:11 and 41 seconds into her phone call you hear the gunshot.

Now, nobody knows for sure when the altercation started but being that you get a full 40 seconds of it in the first witness call, I'm gonna guess that it was probably shortly before that call came in. I went with a minute earlier so lets go with that again.

That puts the altercation start time at 7:15:52

If the altercation began at 7:15:52, why has it taken George over 3:50 to return to his car and yet he is still NOWHERE NEAR HIS CAR?

He jogged for 14 seconds, hell maybe it was a swift jog. What has he been doing for that additional time other than not returning to his car?

Pretty damn obvious he wasn't walking back to his car the whole time.
 
Top