News: Cowboys still bottoming out since Jimmy Johnson's exit; here's why

[Dodger12]

I don't want to make it seem like I'm making excuses, but this article needs balance.

On the flip side, what other team has drafted 5 all pros in the first 3 rounds since 2010? And that's not even including Sean Lee.

And what team has gotten Ron Leary, La'el Collins, and Cole Beasley as undrafted free agents?

That's a good point that was addressed in the article and he gives props to the Cowboys for figuring out the top of the draft:

The Cowboys have finally figured out the top of the draft, landing Dez Bryant, Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin and Byron Jones in first rounds since 2010, Sean Lee and DeMarcus Lawrence in second rounds and DeMarco Murray in the third.

Now it's the bottom of the draft that needs fixing. All rounds matter in a draft, not just the premium ones.

The bottom of the draft is where we find depth and an occasional gem. We've not done well in that area which is what Goose is talking about. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.

 

[mrmojo]

To be fair, Jimmy had success in the draft because he had Herschel Walker and found the one idiot in the NFL not named Jerry Jones or Mike Ditka that would make a deal like that.

So did the Rams after the Dickerson deal, sbut you still have to make the correct picks to make it work which Jimmy did.

 

[noshame]

Just check the record

 

[Hardline]

My point still stands

 

[Silver N Blue]

"Twenty-five teams have found a Pro Bowl player since 2008 in rounds 4-7. But not the Cowboys."

Is this any where close to the definition of luck?

Wow that is about as telling as the Cowboys have had the second most starting QBS since whatever date they used for the Browns.

 

[Wolfpack]

I think the missed message here is that under Johnson the Cowboys were able to; 1) identify a clear system they wanted to run 2) find talent that fit that specific system and 3) develop that talent with in the confines of that system.

Dallas under GM Jones doesn't do that. They simple draft talent based on potentional whether or not they fit. Add in changing systems continually and you have a mess.

Jason seems to have an idea of a system but that has taken some time for him to figure out and get the FO on the same page. Add in that he is inflexible in his coaching and you have .500 football.

 

[cowboyblue22]

to me the final evidence is in the records Johnson drafted player and we won superbowls three out of four years. we haven't won one now after that they packers have been consistent winners year after year we have had five wining seasons in the last twenty years and won two playoff games so no they don't draft well and there is not a lot of talent there.

 

[Nova]

Sorry but it's not and you prove my point below.



We had 3 second round picks in 1994? Really? If you're going to formulate an opinion based on "facts", at least have your facts accurate, especially if they formulate the basis for your opinion.

My bad bro. Got it confused with Erik Williams and our 3rd round picks.

But my original point is the more picks you have the better chance you have of hitting on a contributor.

I don't think anyone will argue that. Basic odds in what is essentially a crapshoot.

 

[Nova]

That's a good point that was addressed in the article and he gives props to the Cowboys for figuring out the top of the draft:



The bottom of the draft is where we find depth and an occasional gem. We've not done well in that area which is what Goose is talking about. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.

No not arguing that at all.

But goose's premise seems to be that hitting on late rounders is the key to success, when in reality, it really shouldn't matter where you get your players as long as they are impactful.

Hitting on a 4th or 5th rounder is great. But it's not the end all.

 

[AbeBeta]

SEA says "Hello" They need to start working on that O if they want to really compete and think Russell is a tad overrated as a pure passer if put in the pocket in a vertical oriented offense like DAL employs. We should be in the NE/NO range in terms of creativity with Romo 100% but lack that bc of the HC, and then the SEA/DEN gameplans without him once the D isn't a joke and a true RB to take on the load to utilize the great OL we have.

Drafting Wentz/Goff/even Lynch would allow this aggressive passing Offense to be incorporated once Romo is either out or retires down the line, etc. Best of both worlds and would only require an avg D (use the money to resign the OL) to compete for the playoffs/SB long term.

And Pete Carroll wants to remind you that he coached in the NFL for 15 years - 4 as a head coach - before going to USC.

Completely different than most college guys.

Jimmy, Harbaugh, Kelly - for example. Only one had any NFL coaching in his background (2 years as a QB coach).

 

[AbeBeta]

My bad bro. Got it confused with Erik Williams and our 3rd round picks.

But my original point is the more picks you have the better chance you have of hitting on a contributor.

I don't think anyone will argue that. Basic odds in what is essentially a crapshoot.

This worked for Jimmy as he was building a team stocked with defensive players who were seen as too small by most other teams.

He did something different and got great value out of picks because of it. But that different approach gets copied and all of a sudden, you run out of effectiveness

 

[Nova]

This worked for Jimmy as he was building a team stocked with defensive players who were seen as too small by most other teams.

He did something different and got great value out of picks because of it. But that different approach gets copied and all of a sudden, you run out of effectiveness

I agree.

I don't want to paint myself as a Cowboys apologist that thinks we're nailing the draft. I just don't agree with Goose's simplistic assessment.

There are big contrasts to what we did with jimmy vs what we're doing now-- not just missing on later rounders.

The article is just flimsy.

 

[fivetwos]

No, we just suck at drafting, and for some reason, we're unwilling to actually play our draft picks.

Absolutely. Our UDFAs seem to get more chances than our actual picks.

 

[fivetwos]

They just need to nail one draft (this one would be opportune) where they get three really nice players and another three solid contributors and everyone, including me, will shut it.

I'd suggest to avoid things like.......

early OL who will be buried on depth chart, early TE who they claim to want to incorporate into offense, then don't.

Either take a QB at 4 or very late, don't waste a 2nd or 3rd on one (either do it right or don't do it).

Use rounds 4-5 on positions that have a shot to contribute....like RB or part of the DL rotation, not on a DB that they wont trust for anything beyond ST, or a WR who cant beat out who we currently have.

Yeah, yeah BPA. I get it, but the above is how you end up with bust drafts and threads like this.

 

[Aven8]

Stuff like this happens when you fall in love with athleticism, and draft guys that have either played the position for a year, at a small school (Wilcox), or try to convert players to something else Steinback (shutters). Also, trading back into the draft sending future picks for a TE that caught 5 balls in his career at UT.

I think after the 4th we throw darts at the draft board!

 

[Toruk_Makto]

We are being fooled by randomness here.

 

[BigStar]

And Pete Carroll wants to remind you that he coached in the NFL for 15 years - 4 as a head coach - before going to USC.

Completely different than most college guys.

Jimmy, Harbaugh, Kelly - for example. Only one had any NFL coaching in his background (2 years as a QB coach).

That's fair, and they have had sustained success. I was just speaking more to those draft finds: Russell, Sherman, Chancellor, etc. Like dag Carrol, who do you NOT know about

 

[Frosty]

He writes this as if we don't have Will McClay.

Man, I knew somebody would go there....lol (Will McClay)

 

[Mr Cowboy]

The foundation of Jimmy success in drafting was the Hershel Walker trade.

Jimmy got lots of draft picks in that trade, but he still had to make the selections. He still found players in the later rounds. The salary cap had not bearing on him finding players in the later rounds.

 

[Gameover]

People overlook the talent Jimmy inherited:
Irvin
Newton
Tui
Jeffcoat
Norton Jr
KMart
Grogan
Bates


Plan B Free Agents: Jay Novacek, James Washington

Trade: Charles Haley

2 HOF And 20 pro bowls that didn't come from Jimmy's drafts.

And Troy would've been drafted by Dallas if the Landry regime would've stayed in place. A lot of dominoes fell perfectly for Jimmy in Dallas, see he wasn't as fortunate in Miami!