News: Cowboys still bottoming out since Jimmy Johnson's exit; here's why

[DandyDon52]

The foundation of Jimmy success in drafting was the Hershel Walker trade.

Not really, more picks dont mean you get the starter type players.
it would just help with being lucky.

one good recent example is Escobar, a guy they used a 2nd for and then have never really utilized him.
Picking a TE for his hands, and then not using him is a wasted pick.

Street ,williams, wilcox are examples of mediocre players to sub par players, and 2 are starting, but are not really good enough
to be starters.

Cowboys still bottoming out since Jimmy Johnson's exit; here's why
my take is that he was a better HC, better gameplanner, better motivator , better at drafting, was very intense and demanding.
Jimmy got mad after wins if the team played poorly.
He used psychology to make the players want to win and be confident,
not fight T shirts, and mannequins.

 

[plymkr]

Why doesn't anyone write articles about how good Jimmy Johnson drafted when he was with the Dolphins? Everyone here knows I'm not a fan of Jerry the GM but when Jimmy the draft guru took over for the Dolphins he didn't do as well without the Walker trade. For every Zach Martin and Jason Taylor Jimmy also produced Yatil Green and Karim Abdul Jabbar.

O yeah, the dolphins didn't win a super bowl with Jimmy the Great drafting.

The truth is Jimmy wasn't as good without Jerry and Jerry is not as good without Jimmy.

 

[unionjack8]

Why doesn't anyone write articles about how good Jimmy Johnson drafted when he was with the Dolphins? Everyone here knows I'm not a fan of Jerry the GM but when Jimmy the draft guru took over for the Dolphins he didn't do as well without the Walker trade. For every Zach Martin and Jason Taylor Jimmy also produced Yatil Green and Karim Abdul Jabbar.

O yeah, the dolphins didn't win a super bowl with Jimmy the Great drafting.

The truth is Jimmy wasn't as good without Jerry and Jerry is not as good without Jimmy.

So for every HOF player he picked a turd?
most GM'S would take that.

He was hamstrung by an aging, selfish qb with massively declining skills and still took them to the playoffs.
The early 90's were because jerry let jimmy run the football ops as a whole, jerry deserves credit for letting the man with knowledge do his job

 

[Q_the_man]

The point was he wanted smaller guys with good speed. At the time players like that were undervalued which is why they remained on the board.

And no, you can't always get the guys you want by trading back.

I'm pretty sure if u trade back you have 2 or 3 players in mind and it's unlikely all 3 would be gone later in the draft like that

 

[jnday]

Truth

Jimmy did good in Miami? He never put together a legit contender in Miami. #Truth

Playoff teams don't count I guess .

 

[AbeBeta]

I'm pretty sure if u trade back you have 2 or 3 players in mind and it's unlikely all 3 would be gone later in the draft like that

And I'm pretty sure those guys are bigger risks than the guy you could have had by not moving back.

I already explained why it worked well for Jimmy. Don't pretend it is some genius scouting.

 

[jobberone]

So for every HOF player he picked a turd?
most GM'S would take that.

He was hamstrung by an aging, selfish qb with massively declining skills and still took them to the playoffs.
The early 90's were because jerry let jimmy run the football ops as a whole, jerry deserves credit for letting the man with knowledge do his job

The perpetuated myth of Jerry was just a bystander. Give them both credit. Both turned into pumpkins.

 

[BAT]

Please. Jimmy brought something new. It got old. You couldn't get the players he valued by trading back anymore.

It's a typical college guy deal. Comes in and is effective for a few years.

The best pro coaches are able to keep that up year after year

Jimmy was still a very effective talent evaluator with Dolphins. Having an eye for talent never becomes old. Mommy's loss was not just great loss in coaching but finding and developing personnel.

 

[BAT]

And I'm pretty sure those guys are bigger risks than the guy you could have had by not moving back.

I already explained why it worked well for Jimmy. Don't pretend it is some genius scouting.

Proof is in the pudding. Jimmy did not just luck into creating winning culture and finding championship players in 5 seasons. Building dynasties, especially one of the most dominant dynasties ever, do not occur by happenstance. Otherwise Jerry would have stepped in some of that luck in the 20 plus years after Jimmy.

 

[cowboyblue22]

jimmy Johnson didn't just have pro bowl players he won superbowls winning championships trumps pro bowls players

 

[AbeBeta]

Jimmy was still a very effective talent evaluator with Dolphins. Having an eye for talent never becomes old. Mommy's loss was not just great loss in coaching but finding and developing personnel.

He made bad moves. Like trading Wisnewski. He tried like heck to trade up for a series of bums one year. No one bit so he settled for Emmitt Smith - that's luck not great evaluation. He gave up what turned out to be the #1 overall pick for Steve Walsh - he already had Troy. That's some talent evaluation!

 

[Alexander]

I guess everyone forgets the scouting staff we had at the time. You know, the same staff Jones dismantled. Did the same thing after Bill Parcells left.

 

[Plankton]

Why doesn't anyone write articles about how good Jimmy Johnson drafted when he was with the Dolphins? Everyone here knows I'm not a fan of Jerry the GM but when Jimmy the draft guru took over for the Dolphins he didn't do as well without the Walker trade. For every Zach Martin and Jason Taylor Jimmy also produced Yatil Green and Karim Abdul Jabbar.

O yeah, the dolphins didn't win a super bowl with Jimmy the Great drafting.

The truth is Jimmy wasn't as good without Jerry and Jerry is not as good without Jimmy.

In Miami, Jimmy Johnson managed to draft Daryl Gardener, Jason Taylor, Sam Madison, Patrick Surtain, Zach Thomas, Kenny Mixon and Lorenzo Bromell - basically the core of a very good defense for nearly ten years.

Where he came up short was drafting on the offensive side of the ball. He didn't draft any offensive difference makers - only spare parts like Stanley Pritchett, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, Ed Perry and Rob Konrad.

For as bad as Johnson was in Miami, from the time he took over the Dolphins until the present, the Cowboys have won one more playoff game than his Dolphins did - and Johnson hasn't coached for the last 16 years.

 

[Plankton]

He made bad moves. Like trading Wisnewski. He tried like heck to trade up for a series of bums one year. No one bit so he settled for Emmitt Smith - that's luck not great evaluation. He gave up what turned out to be the #1 overall pick for Steve Walsh - he already had Troy. That's some talent evaluation!

This is the biggest joke argument of all.

You think that every team hasn't experienced a situation where they targeted someone else, and ended up taking someone else and have it turn out well for them? At the end of the day, Johnson did select Emmitt Smith. Instead of backs like Tony Smith, Steve Broussard, Darrell Thompson or Anthony Thompson. Must have been lucky on his part to have avoided those backs.

How about the 49ers, where Bill Walsh wanted Steve Dils or Steve Fuller, but settled for Joe Montana?

Literally, outside of the team with the first overall pick, every team targets a player, and doesn't always get them.

 

[Plankton]

I guess everyone forgets the scouting staff we had at the time. You know, the same staff Jones dismantled. Did the same thing after Bill Parcells left.

The three most underrated contributors to the Cowboys success in the 1990's were Bob Ackles, Dick Mansperger and John Wooten. All holdovers from the prior regime, and all gone from the organization by 1992 thanks to Jerry Jones wanting Stephen to branch into personnel.

 

[Dodger12]

He made bad moves. Like trading Wisnewski. He tried like heck to trade up for a series of bums one year. No one bit so he settled for Emmitt Smith - that's luck not great evaluation. He gave up what turned out to be the #1 overall pick for Steve Walsh - he already had Troy. That's some talent evaluation!

Just think if we'd have kept Wisnewski.......we may have been given a moniker like the Great Wall of Dallas and we'd have been considered one of the greatest OL's in the history of the game. What could have been if Jimmy never traded him away........damn that fool.

And you need to do some homework on what we got from the Walsh trade.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Cue the Gosselin is a hater message.

A "mediot" and a hack.

Pretry easy to know how this will develop.

I don't think Gosselin is a hater. But I don't think he's a very good writer either. He was excellent at one thing...doing the mock draft and the top-100 projections for the draft.

That's it.

That was given up (stupidly) and now you get the constant disasters he calls columns, today. He was the same guy that predicted Dallas to lose every game in their 2007 season when they went 13-3, got called out on it and then claimed he always takes the home team (which is an incredibly stupid statement and was later proven to be a lie anyway).

I think Gosselin just isn't very smart about football and how the NFL works and the Cowboys are always a good target to have

The problem with this column is that whether people like it or not, Jerry Jones has the highest % of Pro Bowlers than any GM out there. It's a hard fact to accept, but once we do, then we can better determine why the team has been disappointing over the years.

Gosselin is just spouting platitudes because that is what untalented writers do. Instead, I'd rather look at the complexities of the situation at hand. I wouldn't excuse all of the drafting, but this is a team that has a knack for playing players out of position or 'out of their style'. Taking a Julius Jones who shows some real ability and forcing him to change his body frame and style of running. Taking a Felix Jones who showed such promise his first few years and trying to change his body frame and make him a starter. Trying to play Sean Lee at the MIKE when he has shown he can't handle the punishment. Alan Ball at FS. Greg Hardy playing DT.

How about a HC who took 8 years to finally understand how to play to Romo's strengths (keep the pass attempts under 36 so he could primarily use intermediate and deep pass patterns along with play action and use the run to help with that)?

And it's not to say that the drafting hasn't had its flaws. We are still stuck in 1995 in thinking that you can need 'cover corners' who can't tackle and safeties are a mere afterthought.

So no...it's not about Gosselin being a 'hater.' He's just not a good writer and constantly takes the easy way out and he doesn't have that one redeeming value in his writing every year...his draft coverage.








YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

He made bad moves. Like trading Wisnewski. He tried like heck to trade up for a series of bums one year. No one bit so he settled for Emmitt Smith - that's luck not great evaluation. He gave up what turned out to be the #1 overall pick for Steve Walsh - he already had Troy. That's some talent evaluation!

Shhhhh....

People aren't going to like those facts.





YR

 

[Plankton]

BTW, here's the results of the Eric Dickerson trade, in case anyone was wondering:

Rams trade Eric Dickerson to the Colts.
Colts trade the rights to Cornelius Bennett to the Bills.

Rams receive the following:
RB Owen Gill (from the Colts) - played one game with the Rams
RB Greg Bell (from the Bills) - lasted two season in Los Angeles - 31 TDs in two seasons - traded to Raiders due to holdout.
Colts 1st Round pick in 1988
Bills 1st Round pick in 1988
Bills 1st Round pick in 1989
Colts 2nd Round pick in 1988
Colts 2nd Round pick in 1989
Bills 2nd Round pick in 1989

The Rams didn't trade any of these picks. Here were their selections:

1988 - Pick #14 overall (from Bills) - RB Gaston Green - UCLA - lasted three seasons in LA - traded to Broncos for OT Gerald Perry
1988 - Pick #20 overall (from Colts) - WR Aaron Cox - Arizona State - lasted six seasons in NFL - 1700 yards receiving total
1988 - Pick #47 overall (from Colts) - MLB Fred Strickland - Purdue - good NFL LB for 12 years for Rams, Packers, Vikings, Cowboys and Commanders.
1989 - Pick #26 overall (from Bills) - RB Cleveland Gary - Miami - 2600 yards in 6 seasons, 1 1000 yard season
1989 - Pick #45 overall (from Colts) - OLB Frank Stams - Notre Dame - started 31 games in 7 seasons for three teams (Rams, Browns, Chiefs)
1989 - Pick #53 overall - CB Darryl Henley - UCLA - started 54 games in 6 seasons. Currently serving 41 years for trafficking cocaine, and trying to hire thugs to murder the judge on his case.

Think it was just as simple as having the picks? They also took DE Bill Hawkins (Miami) with their first rounder in 1989, who started 8 games in four seasons. Their first in 1988 was traded away in the Jim Everett trade with the Oilers.

Not much bang for the buck, with having nearly as large of an original draft kitty as the Herschel Walker trade.
1989 - Pick #53 overall (from Bills) - CB Darryl Henley - UCLA

 

[Gameover]

I would argue that jimmy MADE most of those players, few of them were above average before jimmy got hold of them

Any competent coach would have MADE them, Irvin and Norton Jr were babies in the league. Jeffcoat was a quality rusher before Jimmy. Tui and Nate are guys he made. But that wasn't my point. My point is the Cowboys were built on more than a Walker trade and Jimmy's drafts.