Next Time we Discuss Dak's Stats

[darthseinfeld]

... Remember Mariota and Monday nights game against the Texans.

Mariota went 22-23 with a perfect passer rating. And yet the Titans were not competitive. This tweet does a good job of explaining why his stats did not match the eye test.



This reminds me of Dak against the Commanders. He was awful essentially the entire game. And yet due to two passes his passer rating was stellar. Eye test > Stats in this case.

As a reminder Dak is 23rd in the NFL in QBR. Top 5? Brees, Mahomes, Rivers, Goff and Wilson in that order.

For added Dak context Joe Flacco and Ryan Fitzpatrick have been better. Fitzpatrick has been benched twice and there is talk Joe has been Wally Pipped. Meanwhile we wouldn't trade Dak for 2 first rounders and are backing up the Brinks truck. Future is bright!

Dak to me is a player that can "not lose" games if he has players like Elliott and Cooper that can control games and break them open.

Im a believer that Dak has the tangible talent to be a legitimate good starting QB in the NFL. However Im ready to move on from him because in the three years he has been an NFL QB he hasnt fixed his mechanics and foot work. In fact they may even be worse. You cant put that in coaching, especially considering the limited contact they can have in the offseason. Im no fan of this staff, but thats on Dak.

Im not giving Dak an extension. Im looking at the draft to see if there are any QB's worth our 2nd or moving back into the first for. Then letting Dak finish his contract and move on. But thats not gonna happen

 

[OmerV]

No. I'm not doing that. Like. At all.

People are using his overall stats from the game to prove he played well. He didn't.

And you are ignoring stats to say he didn't. In any case, those plays are part of his overall stats, and you are excluding them, and in fact excluding the completion yardage and potential extra yardage from an extended drive had those passes only been 1st downs instead of touchdowns. For all you know, even if Cooper had been tackled immediately after those catches, Dak may have thrown several more passes and gained more yards and ended up throwing for a TD anyway. So yes, you are ignoring stats and assuming drives would have ended without those plays. You cannot fairly do that.

Again, no other QB gets deductions for big plays made by receivers. Why should Dak?

And, in any case, he played well aside from those passes. Not stellar - not elite level - but well. It's way off base to suggest he played horribly as you have indicated.

 

[Runwildboys]

it's like special relativity. one problem. two completely different answers. but both answers are correct depending on the observation point of the viewer.

I have a special relative living in a group home, in Upstate New York.

 

[Runwildboys]

There is always room for criticism. Even at your best you need to be critical and even at your worst you need to postive.

Im not an adherent to the thought that after a win you should focus on the positive and the negative after a loss.

Which is why Tiger Woods was so great. He was constantly tweaking his swing, trying to improve.

 

[Runwildboys]

And you are ignoring stats to say he didn't. In any case, those plays are part of his overall stats, and you are excluding them, and in fact excluding the completion yardage and potential extra yardage from an extended drive had those passes only been 1st downs instead of touchdowns. For all you know, even if Cooper had been tackled immediately after those catches, Dak may have thrown several more passes and gained more yards and ended up throwing for a TD anyway. So yes, you are ignoring stats and assuming drives would have ended without those plays. You cannot fairly do that.

Again, no other QB gets deductions for big plays made by receivers. Why should Dak?

And, in any case, he played well aside from those passes. Not stellar - not elite level - but well. It's way off base to suggest he played horribly as you have indicated.

He did have some horrible plays, but he had some very good ones...A few that could be indicative of progress, such as throwing to the spot he expected Coop to get to, rather than waiting for him to get open. He may have done that with other players, but I didn't see any like that other than Cooper. Regardless, it may be that he's starting to trust in his receiver(s).

 

[Boyz4Lyfe33]

This forum is basically a Dak bash site.. This is really trash.. I mean how many different ways can you say Dak sucks in disguise. I mean some of you people arent even witty in your blind Dak hate. This board is terrible

 

[nate dizzle]

Dak is the Cowboys "guy". Either support or go find another team.

Don't be that guy that only deals in absolutes. People can support the team while not supporting a player. You're living proof.

 

[JustChip]

oh those are stats now. Good to know!

How bout that cap backward - is that a stat too. That's about where I put that Cabo trip. He should have stayed at home and played checkers!

One will never know whether that Cabo trip had an tangible impact on the Giants game, but as a minimum, it sent the wrong message. Fair or not, image(s) impact the perception of reality.

The issue I had with the Cabo trip really was with Coach Powder Puff. Specifically, saying they already won a playoff game because they had a bye. That sends the wrong message to your team and I fully believe that had an impact on how they prepared and played.

 

[OmerV]

He did have some horrible plays, but he had some very good ones...A few that could be indicative of progress, such as throwing to the spot he expected Coop to get to, rather than waiting for him to get open. He may have done that with other players, but I didn't see any like that other than Cooper. Regardless, it may be that he's starting to trust in his receiver(s).

I agree - he isn't playing at star level, but he didn't play horribly the entire game like the OP indicated. The second half was better than the first. He was a bit too slow to make decisions in the first half, and it led to sacks. Second half was much better in that regard. He does seem to be on the same page with Cooper. If we can sign Cooper to a longer term deal I think he will be well worth the 1st round pick we gave up.

 

[Future]

Hey, we all know Dak still needs some work, however to not even be able to see that he is showing progress is simply agenda driven drivel.

What progress? They still aren't completing anything down the field. In 4 games, they've completed 7 passes that traveled more than 10 yards in the air, including 0 against ATL.


Amari Cooper is the perfect WR for Dak because he wins against man coverage every time. Dak can just stare him down until he's open. That doesn't necessarily mean Dak is playing better though, just that he has a better supporting cast.

 

[Future]

We we're 28th in YAC yards before the last game. The Rams are #1.
Goff must really suck since his receivers are doing all the work

Goff throws guys open all the time, that's the difference.

A lot of it is also Gurley, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[aikemirv]

One will never know whether that Cabo trip had an tangible impact on the Giants game, but as a minimum, it sent the wrong message. Fair or not, image(s) impact the perception of reality.

The issue I had with the Cabo trip really was with Coach Powder Puff. Specifically, saying they already won a playoff game because they had a bye. That sends the wrong message to your team and I fully believe that had an impact on how they prepared and played.

So utterly stupid - taking a vacation when you were not ALLOWED to work.

Get over it! Ridiculous!

 

[pansophy]

... Remember Mariota and Monday nights game against the Texans.

Mariota went 22-23 with a perfect passer rating. And yet the Titans were not competitive. This tweet does a good job of explaining why his stats did not match the eye test.



This reminds me of Dak against the Commanders. He was awful essentially the entire game. And yet due to two passes his passer rating was stellar. Eye test > Stats in this case.

As a reminder Dak is 23rd in the NFL in QBR. Top 5? Brees, Mahomes, Rivers, Goff and Wilson in that order.

For added Dak context Joe Flacco and Ryan Fitzpatrick have been better. Fitzpatrick has been benched twice and there is talk Joe has been Wally Pipped. Meanwhile we wouldn't trade Dak for 2 first rounders and are backing up the Brinks truck. Future is bright!

Just so we are clear -- QBR is also a stat so this is really about which stat seems to better estimate reality. In this case Dak has the 21st passer rating and 23rd QBR, so I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. They both tell the same story.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Just so we are clear -- QBR is also a stat so this is really about which stat seems to better estimate reality. In this case Dak has the 21st passer rating and 23rd QBR, so I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. They both tell the same story.

The story was more about the recent narrative that Dak has been playing well on this 3 game winning streak. With stats as evidence. Check the forums.

That isn't the case generally. He's... Been bad.

The intent of the thread was to use a specific and recent game to highlight how stats can make you not trust your eyes.

 

[Future]

Dak Prescott almost 3 yrs
65.2% comp 9418yrds pass 58td 22int 918yrds rush 17tds 94.9RTG

Carson Wince
63.5% comp 9618yrds pass 65td 27int 549yrds rush 2tds 91.6RTG

Jared Goff
62.7% comp 8440yrds pass 59td 20int 155yrds rush 3tds 98RTG


There you go. i noticed none of you have even attempted to talk about this stat line.

He has played 5 more games than Wentz and 10 more than Goff lol. If you go by per game...

Dak - 196.2 yards, 1.2 pass td, .46 int
Wentz - 253.1 yards, 1.7 pass td, .71 int
Goff - 255.8 yards, 1.8 pass td, .61 int

The only thing Dak does it throw fewer picks, but that's because he doesn't try to push the ball down the field. These numbers would also be very, very different if you only included, say, the last 20 games, because the numbers aren't even close.

I still don't understand why people try to put Dak into a class of QBs that he doesn't belong in. He's not Jared Goff, and isn't ever going to be. To try to say he's a better passer is ridiculous.

 

[pansophy]

The story was more about the recent narrative that Dak has been playing well on this 3 game winning streak. With stats as evidence. Check the forums.

That isn't the case generally. He's... Been bad.

The intent of the thread was to use a specific and recent game to highlight how stats can make you not trust your eyes.

If you go look at his weekly QBR stats it is fairer to say that most of the season he has been inconsistent, with a high QBR of 94.7 and a low of 14.3. Since Cooper came aboard Dak has been average or slightly above average all 3 games. It is also hard to ignore that his passing percentage has been higher the last 3 games than it had been all season long, and this is coming from someone who has complained a lot about Dak.

Cooper has made a difference and Dak has found some relief by his addition. That is a fair narrative.

 

[Zman5]

Goff throws guys open all the time, that's the difference.

A lot of it is also Gurley, if I'm not mistaken.

It has more to do with the type of routes you run on offense and the player catching the ball .

We were ranked 21st in YAC in 2014 .
I guess Romo couldn't throw his receivers open in 2014 .

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

And you are ignoring stats to say he didn't. In any case, those plays are part of his overall stats, and you are excluding them, and in fact excluding the completion yardage and potential extra yardage from an extended drive had those passes only been 1st downs instead of touchdowns. For all you know, even if Cooper had been tackled immediately after those catches, Dak may have thrown several more passes and gained more yards and ended up throwing for a TD anyway. So yes, you are ignoring stats and assuming drives would have ended without those plays. You cannot fairly do that.

Again, no other QB gets deductions for big plays made by receivers. Why should Dak?

And, in any case, he played well aside from those passes. Not stellar - not elite level - but well. It's way off base to suggest he played horribly as you have indicated.

This is simple.

If you're analyzing QB you're looking at his play individually and his contribution (to that play) within the context of each play. If you're trying to do simple analysis based on pure yardage totals your contention would stand.

I'm not giving Dak as much credit for a simple 5-yard pass on quick slant that Cooper turns into a 40 yard TD, as much as I would that dime he dropped into Brice Butler hands in Green Bay in 2016. If you can't get past the yardage aspect you're not getting the point.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Its obvious to anybody that knows football, that numbers lie


For example:

Dak vs Titans
21 for 31
67%
243 yards
2 TD
1 int
99.3 rating
7.8 y/a


What these numbers dont show is just how bad that 1 int was. Up 7-0 at the 3 yard line, and he throws one of the worst passes ever into double coverage.

What these numbers dont show is his stupid fumble in our own territory when hes trying to muscle a yard or two while being sacked on third and long, essentially fumbling the ball.


Dak. Is. Not. A. Good. Quarterback

 

[Philmonroe]

This forum is basically a Dak bash site.. This is really trash.. I mean how many different ways can you say Dak sucks in disguise. I mean some of you people arent even witty in your blind Dak hate. This board is terrible

Thanks for your opinion and if the board is so terrible leave nobody is keeping you here.