Next Time we Discuss Dak's Stats

[Corso]

I'm so glad this thread has changed minds and souls. Clearly not a waste of time! Like this post...
Awww... sad face.

 

[OmerV]

No. I’m saying if we are winning with Dak as we were winning with Romo, Dak’s earned a contract. Winning is winning. And so far Dak has proven to win games. Especially in comeback situations. That was the barometer for Romo’s extension. So why change the criteria now?

While you and I seem to agree on a lot, I'm a little shaky on using winning as a barometer with the winning not being consistent throughout. In terms of winning, Dak had a hugely successful first season, but in the last 27 games (2017 & 11/16 of 2018) he is 15-12, so the winning has only been slightly above .500 most of his career.

 

[LatinMind]

Why what? You're just ignoring my point and going into yard totals. I feel like I've lost what your actual point is, I'm not the one arguing about Cooper's YAC (though in this case, given the small sample, it is an anomaly).

The difference between what Goff does and what Dak does is simple. Goff throws guys open, Dak waits until they get open. I don't care about YAC, specifically.

The point which all of you people who cry about everything with this team wont even acknowledge is Dak is just as accurate and just as successful when they call plays that are similar to what Goff and Wince throw. But them playcalls are far apart and very few then there should be.You can all cry bad qb, but thats not really the case. How did Goff and Wince do when they were forced to play in a similar system as dak in their rookie yrs? Goff couldnt even get on the field because he cant pay under center, and Wince couldnt complete anything over 10 yrds. But none of you want to discuss that, and simply just say Dak sucks.

 

[Future]

Goff had better receivers. He ain’t throwing them open. They run precise routes and have speed to take the top off the defense.

He throws them open all the time with anticipation.




Look how early in the routes these balls are thrown, particularly that last one. This is throwing receivers open 101. Dak has as much arm talent as anyone, but he does not see the field like this. He just doesn't. Contrast those Goff throws to this, which is about 3 steps too late, making an easy win a tough, contested catch:

Dak can be a good QB in the right system and with the right players around him. But acting like he has the passing ability of some of the league's elite QBs, including Goff, is totally baseless. He doesn't throw with any anticipation, he has to see it first. It's difficult to throw the ball down the field in this league without that trait, and it's where the Cowboys struggle every single week.

 

[InTheZone]

Right now Dak is just as much a regular season winner as Romo was. Did you have an issue with Romo’s contract?

Look at what he brings to the team. We can find any athlete to run. I want a guy that can take it to the next level and be a passing threat as well. Our team is built to win right now with our solid run game and defense, regardless of our QB. The problem is the team is actually talking about paying the QB as if he's the big piece to the puzzle.

 

[Batman1980]

Look at what he brings to the team. We can find any athlete to run. I want a guy that can take it to the next level and be a passing threat as well. Our team is built to win right now with our solid run game and defense, regardless of our QB. The problem is the team is actually talking about paying the QB as if he's the big piece to the puzzle.

Dak is still the bus driver, Zeke is the engine inside the bus.

 

[Future]

So what was the barometer for Romo?

He could throw the ball...

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The point which all of you people who cry about everything with this team wont even acknowledge is Dak is just as accurate and just as successful when they call plays that are similar to what Goff and Wince throw. But them playcalls are far apart and very few then there should be.You can all cry bad qb, but thats not really the case. How did Goff and Wince do when they were forced to play in a similar system as dak in their rookie yrs? Goff couldnt even get on the field because he cant pay under center, and Wince couldnt complete anything over 10 yrds. But none of you want to discuss that, and simply just say Dak sucks.

Maybe because you're treating your claim as fact and people aren't buying it...go figure.

 

[InTheZone]

He throws them open all the time with anticipation.




Look how early in the routes these balls are thrown, particularly that last one. This is throwing receivers open 101. Dak has as much arm talent as anyone, but he does not see the field like this. He just doesn't. Contrast those Goff throws to this, which is about 3 steps too late, making an easy win a tough, contested catch:

Dak can be a good QB in the right system and with the right players around him. But acting like he has the passing ability of some of the league's elite QBs, including Goff, is totally baseless. He doesn't throw with any anticipation, he has to see it first. It's difficult to throw the ball down the field in this league without that trait, and it's where the Cowboys struggle every single week.

Winner

 

[Future]

The point which all of you people who cry about everything with this team wont even acknowledge is Dak is just as accurate and just as successful when they call plays that are similar to what Goff and Wince throw. But them playcalls are far apart and very few then there should be.You can all cry bad qb, but thats not really the case. How did Goff and Wince do when they were forced to play in a similar system as dak in their rookie yrs? Goff couldnt even get on the field because he cant pay under center, and Wince couldnt complete anything over 10 yrds. But none of you want to discuss that, and simply just say Dak sucks.

Please see the post below this one. Dak does not anticipate throws, so assuming he could do the same thing that other guys do is off.

 

[keysersoze]

While you and I seem to agree on a lot, I'm a little shaky on using winning as a barometer with the winning not being consistent throughout. In terms of winning, Dak had a hugely successful first season, but in the last 27 games (2017 & 11/16 of 2018) he is 15-12, so the winning has only been slightly above .500 most of his career.

I agree. But with Cooper and a reinvigorated Oline I see improvement. I’m optimistic about it.

 

[keysersoze]

He could throw the ball...

Yea. To the opposing defense.

 

[InTheZone]

Look Youngin.... It’s apparent that we couldn’t care less about the percentage of yards thrown or astronomical numbers in the passing game. What we Full Adults care about is a quarterback playing within the strengths of the team to produce wins. That’s all that matters to us. We didn’t grow up playing Madden and gambling on fantasy football. We didn’t grow up in an era that altered rules to favor the quarterback and receivers. We grew up in the smash mouth era of football when teams won by any means necessary. We care about wins and championships. Not numbers. So please excuse us for being optimistic when we see our quarterback contributing to a current 3 game winning streak. Even if he doesn’t rack up 500 yards per game. Winning is all that matters.

Tim Tebow won games in his time and a playoff game, team released him shortly after. Winning is winning....

 

[keysersoze]

Tim Tebow won games in his time and a playoff game, team released him shortly after. Winning is winning....

We aren’t talking about Tebow. Dak has contributed to many more wins than Tebow.

 

[InTheZone]

Yea. To the opposing defense.

The great aikman won his share of games with more turnovers and less scores than the guy you hate.

The great dak has tried to throw his share of picks, has a bad habit of fumbling on his own, already has 4 pick 6s despite throwing checkdowns all game and has a great supporting team. But you hate on the guy that had lesser teams.

 

[OmerV]

I have argued that yes two passes have skewed peoples perception of Dak's play. I have given a statistical basis for that. 2 passes over 3 games amount to almost 20% of Dak's total yardage. That speaks to the outlier nature of the plays.

I have also given qualitative assessment. If you think Dak was playing well before those 2 plays then you don't understand qb play. If you think after those 2 plays that suddenly Dak had a good game then you shouldn't be evaluating qb play for public consumption

I have been completely consistent throughout this 20 page discussion.

What is truly amazing is that 20 pages into this discussion you're using a passer rating of 102 to defend a game played. When the entire premise of this thread and discussion.. . Sigh. . Yikes.

And, you have decided it is fair to use a wildly flawed statistical basis that neither gives Dak credit for even the in air yardage on those completions or any after the catch yardage at all, or even a 1st down that would have perpetuated a drive in which Dak was likely to throw more passes and gain more yardage anyway, and that treats it as if those scores didn't happen, yet the Cowboys would still have run the ball 11 of 13 plays in the 4th quarter in an effort to eat up clock despite the fact that without those scores the Cowboys may not have even been ahead.

It's a ridiculously flawed argument on several points.

It would be like Zeke running for a 1st down, then taking away that play and all future plays in that drive, including a long 30+ yard run. You can't just erase one play altogether and pretend as if the drive ended with no first down and no opportunities for additional yardage or a TD. And you can't pretend all circumstances would have remained the same had those two plays never occurred.

Again, ridiculously flawed. Not to mention you have been caught making at least one blatantly false claim, and I strongly suspect the claim that a 102 passer rating was only enough for 14th best was false as well.

As for the eye test, your vision may well be flawed as well.

 

[keysersoze]

Look at what he brings to the team. We can find any athlete to run. I want a guy that can take it to the next level and be a passing threat as well. Our team is built to win right now with our solid run game and defense, regardless of our QB. The problem is the team is actually talking about paying the QB as if he's the big piece to the puzzle.

So you’re more of a talent evaluator than those in the organization? I trust them more than any of you.

 

[InTheZone]

We aren’t talking about Tebow. Dak has contributed to many more wins than Tebow.

Like saying grossman contributed to more wins in his SB run, team carry. It is quite possible that's what's happening now with Dak.

 

[keysersoze]

The great aikman won his share of games with more turnovers and less scores than the guy you hate.

The great dak has tried to throw his share of picks, has a bad habit of fumbling on his own, already has 4 pick 6s despite throwing checkdowns all game and has a great supporting team. But you hate on the guy that had lesser teams.

Romo didn’t have lesser teams. He threw the ball to Hall Of Famers.

 

[Future]

Yea. To the opposing defense.

Good one.