Next Time we Discuss Dak's Stats

[ClintDagger]

He throws them open all the time with anticipation.




Look how early in the routes these balls are thrown, particularly that last one. This is throwing receivers open 101. Dak has as much arm talent as anyone, but he does not see the field like this. He just doesn't. Contrast those Goff throws to this, which is about 3 steps too late, making an easy win a tough, contested catch:

Dak can be a good QB in the right system and with the right players around him. But acting like he has the passing ability of some of the league's elite QBs, including Goff, is totally baseless. He doesn't throw with any anticipation, he has to see it first. It's difficult to throw the ball down the field in this league without that trait, and it's where the Cowboys struggle every single week.

That’s it right there. People seem to ebb and flow on Dak based on the throws he makes-whether on target or not on target. But it’s the throws he never sees and therefore doesn’t attempt because he doesn’t have the makeup to anticipate guys getting open that really hold him & this team back. He actually did it once with Cooper against WAS and it’s the only time I can ever remember him doing that where it wasn’t designed like say a fade near the goal line.

 

[InTheZone]

So you’re more of a talent evaluator than those in the organization? I trust them more than any of you.

Do you watch the games? When was the last time you ever said "what were you doing Dak?", genuinely curious

 

[keysersoze]

Good one.

 

[InTheZone]

That’s it right there. People seem to ebb and flow on Dak based on the throws he makes-whether on target or not on target. But it’s the throws he never sees and therefore doesn’t attempt because he doesn’t have the makeup to anticipate guys getting open that really hold him & this team back. He actually did it once with Cooper against WAS and it’s the only time I can ever remember him doing that where it wasn’t designed like say a fade near the goal line.

Winner

 

[OmerV]

I agree. But with Cooper and a reinvigorated Oline I see improvement. I’m optimistic about it.

I am too. I just think we are in wait and see mode with Dak right now. I like him, but I'm not yet convinced he is the best we can do at QB. Honestly I have real doubts about that, but I'm willing to wait and see for now.

 

[Swagger]

Have all of you that say Prescott doesn't have any arm talent seem to forget his rookie year and what his passer rating was. It's funny when the Cowboys were 13 - 3 and had over a 100 passer rating and was offensive rookie of the year we did hear or see thread after thread of his lack of arm talent. And then in 2017 the Cowboys had the league leader in drops, Bryant, and even sure handed Beasley had more drops in 2017 than the previous 2 seasons combined and yet it's all Prescott without much arm talent. Then in week 9 the Cowboys acquire Cooper and Prescott's passing gets much better. What it boils down to is when the Cowboys weren't winning or having a 13-3 record it's all Prescott's fault, there are no OTHER reasons for it.
.

The receivers dropped more balls brcause the running game was less efficient so the offense became more reliant on Prescott's arm - the receivers couldn't catch those passes unless they were Inspector Gadget!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am too. I just think we are in wait and see mode with Dak right now. I like him, but I'm not yet convinced he is the best we can do at QB. Honestly I have real doubts about that, but I'm willing to wait and see for now.

Well, I think this is true but I ask, what good will waiting to see actually do? I mean, don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe that it's proper to see what we have in him and not jump to a rash decision but the problem is that we can wait and wait but until we decide to do something about our Coaching Staff, what will we actually learn, if we do wait? I know, I sound like a broken record but it's the truth. I don't know that we are any further ahead, regardless of if we wait or not. That is what is really frustrating to me.

 

[OmerV]

Well, I think this is true but I ask, what good will waiting to see actually do? I mean, don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe that it's proper to see what we have in him and not jump to a rash decision but the problem is that we can wait and wait but until we decide to do something about our Coaching Staff, what will we actually learn, if we do wait? I know, I sound like a broken record but it's the truth. I don't know that we are any further ahead, regardless of if we wait or not. That is what is really frustrating to me.

If this were a year ago I would probably disagree, but it's a little harder to disagree this deep into Dak's 3rd season. Admittedly there comes a point you can't just continue to "wait and see" and have to make a decision.

 

[camaro69]

They just tell us we are arbitrarily taking 2 passes away. We can win with Dak but most of the time we are not going to win because of Dak.

His flaws just limit him.It's that simple.

I

Please stop with the truth Dak lovers cant take it. Get ready for a blitz of stats and excuses, Dak is not a Franchise QB not even close. If you want to whip out a stat look at the stats of Dak without Zeke. There a stats that says our OL has given up 38 sacks. What that stats wont tell you is that 35% of those belong the Dak. Just one of his Flaws

 

[OmerV]

They just tell us we are arbitrarily taking 2 passes away. We can win with Dak but most of the time we are not going to win because of Dak.

His flaws just limit him.It's that simple.

I

You are arbitrarily taking 2 passes away, and ignoring that even without those passes being a TD the drive still would have continued and Dak's opportunity to throw for more yardage wouldn't have just ended.

But by saying that I am not saying Dak is the ultimate answer at QB. To have doubts about Dak doesn't mean you have to find a negative with everything he does. Obviously he does good things too, and has good games. No reasonable person can say that isn't true. The question is only whether he does enough good things and consistently has good games that would result in him being the right QB to lead the team now and in the future. I, for one, have serious doubts about that, but it doesn't mean I can't reasonably recognize the moments and games in which he plays well.

 

[G2]

Do you watch the games? When was the last time you ever said "what were you doing Dak?", genuinely curious

I've said it about every QB I've seen play. Point?

 

[G2]

I am too. I just think we are in wait and see mode with Dak right now. I like him, but I'm not yet convinced he is the best we can do at QB. Honestly I have real doubts about that, but I'm willing to wait and see for now.

I'm comfortable with the idea that maybe Prescott is what he is and he doesn't develop into a Tom Brady like so many expect.
I like that we're not leaning on a gunslinger and can never get over the hump.
I'm optimistic Prescott improves, there's nothing to suggest he won't.
I don't believe you can designate his ceiling just yet.

 

[OmerV]

Do you watch the games? When was the last time you ever said "what were you doing Dak?", genuinely curious

Hell, there have been times I've said that with the best QB's in history, although obviously less with them.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And, you have decided it is fair to use a wildly flawed statistical basis that neither gives Dak credit for even the in air yardage on those completions or any after the catch yardage at all, or even a 1st down that would have perpetuated a drive in which Dak was likely to throw more passes and gain more yardage anyway, and that treats it as if those scores didn't happen, yet the Cowboys would still have run the ball 11 of 13 plays in the 4th quarter in an effort to eat up clock despite the fact that without those scores the Cowboys may not have even been ahead.

It's a ridiculously flawed argument on several points.

It would be like Zeke running for a 1st down, then taking away that play and all future plays in that drive, including a long 30+ yard run. You can't just erase one play altogether and pretend as if the drive ended with no first down and no opportunities for additional yardage or a TD. And you can't pretend all circumstances would have remained the same had those two plays never occurred.

Again, ridiculously flawed. Not to mention you have been caught making at least one blatantly false claim, and I strongly suspect the claim that a 102 passer rating was only enough for 14th best was false as well.

As for the eye test, your vision may well be flawed as well.

Nothing you've asserted in this post is something I have done nor is something that QBR does (ignoring YAC).

Are you lying or do you not understand?

 

[aikemirv]

You are arbitrarily taking 2 passes away, and ignoring that even without those passes being a TD the drive still would have continued and Dak's opportunity to throw for more yardage wouldn't have just ended.

But by saying that I am not saying Dak is the ultimate answer at QB. To have doubts about Dak doesn't mean you have to find a negative with everything he does. Obviously he does good things too, and has good games. No reasonable person can say that isn't true. The question is only whether he does enough good things and consistently has good games that would result in him being the right QB to lead the team now and in the future. I, for one, have serious doubts about that, but it doesn't mean I can't reasonably recognize the moments and games in which he plays well.

Arbitrarily would be taking them away if he had a good game otherwise. He absolutely did not have a good game otherwise and the absence of those 2 passes tell you 29 attempts for 145 yards which is a terrible 5 YPA. That is the game I saw with my 2 eyes in frustration watching the TV. The 40 yarder by Amari was a 5 yard pass and a great play by Amari. The 90 yarder was a very nice pass and a great run but not a special pass that most top QB's don't make every week.

Other than the very nice first drive of the game, His other drives in the first half were for 14,13,8 and 7 yards and then the fiasco with 1st and goal from the 4

I am not taking anything away from Dak. I think he can consistently make throws like the one on the 90 yarder. He just chooses not to take the chance and he does not have the anticipation to do it consistently.

The 3 main flaws with Dak that I see EVERY week are

1) poor pocket presence- spinning backwards out of the pocket rather than stepping up- panic in pocket (dump to Zeke on 3rd and goal with time in pocket)
2) poor anticipation- on the dump to Zeke, Beasley was about to break open in End zone- this happens every week
3) flashes of poor accuracy/mechanics - Gallup on the deep ball and the pass on 1st and goal at the 4 - couple of the same type the week before as well
4) no confidence to convert 3rd and long

Positives with Dak

1) leadership
2) low turnover rate with Ints - not fumbles though
3) good running ability

It is not a good thing that passing ability is not in his top 3 characteristics and I think most would agree with that!

 

[InTheZone]

Hell, there have been times I've said that with the best QB's in history, although obviously less with them.

same, but I wonder if there's less of this with our qb and certain individuals.

 

[OmerV]

same, but I wonder if there's less of this with our qb and certain individuals.

Maybe. There are always blind supporters and blind haters - works both ways. I disagree with both, but I find the blind supporters a little easier to tolerate simply because positivity is more pleasant than negativity.

 

[OmerV]

That’s it right there. People seem to ebb and flow on Dak based on the throws he makes-whether on target or not on target. But it’s the throws he never sees and therefore doesn’t attempt because he doesn’t have the makeup to anticipate guys getting open that really hold him & this team back. He actually did it once with Cooper against WAS and it’s the only time I can ever remember him doing that where it wasn’t designed like say a fade near the goal line.

This is a much bigger concern for me than the accuracy questions. Granted, the accuracy didn't look good at times earlier in the season, but most of the season it has been pretty solid. The bigger questions is making the right reads and making quick decisions. My perception is too often he either misses the right read or holds the ball too long expecting a better option or clearer look. That's not to say the O-Line has always given him as much time as he would want, but that even further emphasizes the need to make quick. accurate reads and decisions. If the read is there is nothing available, learn when to run and when to throw the ball away rather than take a sack. He had a little difficulty with that the 1st half against the Commanders, hence the 4 sacks, but seemed much more decisive the 2nd half. It seems to come and go with Dak.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Fundamentally flawed suggests it lacks construct validity, which simply isn't true. Imperfect is something else and every statistic is an estimate of reality and can only be interpreted in the context in which it is measured.

Let me rephrase. I think it is junky and boo boo

 

[Corso]

Let me rephrase. I think is junky and boo boo

I like this kind of scientific verbiage hoss! You speaky my language!