No African-American Coaches Hired Yet
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jksmith269
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So how should someone be hired not just for this but anything? Why should race apply it shouldn't. The best qualifed person should get the job.sportsman said:
Is there a law that says you have to interview a White person? No
Is there a law saying you have to interview a woman? No
Why should a black american be any different?
This topic should be moved to the PC zone....
Cajuncowboy
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So would you prefer that a person be hired or judged based on the color of thier skin or the content of their character (or in this case the content of their ability to do the job)?
Billy Bullocks
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juice28 said:
65 % african american.
This i a ******** thread really. If people think that the hiring processes of the NFL are racist, then I would love to hear what their defintion of real racism is, you know, lynchings, segregation, etc.
Phoenix-Talon
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Here are just a few comments from this thread, for background purposes ...
No doubt, there's some varied opinions regarding this matter. Sensitive matter to some, for others there's no issue, and still others feel that there's no parity issues.
Census data is nice for trivia sake, but in the real NFL world, Coaching is not a position that fits into a quota, or the percentage rate; regardless of census bureau reports or representative of a particular group -- it shouldn't be. Talent, experience, winning records and effectiveness are essential. However, if a person is denied a position (coaching or otherwise) based on solely on ethnicity, or other specific differences, then it would not be proper.
Historically, inproprieties in hiring practices as they apply to sports is not uncommon (Baseball, golf club membership, etc); in other sports, it does not seem to be apparent (that I'm aware) ...,e.g., Basketball, Boxing, Football, etc). Comparatively, sports across the board seem (at least from the surface) to have healthy representative in coaching, participation and many other aspects.
I believe great strides have been made in these areas to rectify those practices; at least for the most part. What about women?
The good news is that the NFL players have never expressed any concern about the cultural or ethnicity of coaches. The concern for disparity (if it does indeed exist) would be better placed on political leadership, communities, education, economics, business, and all other fields of endeavor. Football is doing just fine -- opportunites are available for anyone, if they have the talent and skills. That's just my opinion.
No doubt, there's some varied opinions regarding this matter. Sensitive matter to some, for others there's no issue, and still others feel that there's no parity issues.
Census data is nice for trivia sake, but in the real NFL world, Coaching is not a position that fits into a quota, or the percentage rate; regardless of census bureau reports or representative of a particular group -- it shouldn't be. Talent, experience, winning records and effectiveness are essential. However, if a person is denied a position (coaching or otherwise) based on solely on ethnicity, or other specific differences, then it would not be proper.
Historically, inproprieties in hiring practices as they apply to sports is not uncommon (Baseball, golf club membership, etc); in other sports, it does not seem to be apparent (that I'm aware) ...,e.g., Basketball, Boxing, Football, etc). Comparatively, sports across the board seem (at least from the surface) to have healthy representative in coaching, participation and many other aspects.
I believe great strides have been made in these areas to rectify those practices; at least for the most part. What about women?
The good news is that the NFL players have never expressed any concern about the cultural or ethnicity of coaches. The concern for disparity (if it does indeed exist) would be better placed on political leadership, communities, education, economics, business, and all other fields of endeavor. Football is doing just fine -- opportunites are available for anyone, if they have the talent and skills. That's just my opinion.
joseephuss
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NYCowboy22 said:
I don't think teams always hire the best candidates regardless of race. There is always someone hired where the vast majority of football fans scratch their heads and say "***?" Heck, there were some organizations that didn't want to win, but that is a different discussion.
I don't know if it is racism, but there was something wrong with the system. I don't think forcing teams to interview minority candidates is a great solution, but I am not sure what is a good solution. There have been several minority candidates that were overlooked by teams for years. Not even interviewed although they were qualified and in hindsight were more qualified than some of the coaches hired. Why were they being passed over?
It isn't about hiring someone because of the color of their skin, but if a team isn't even interviewing a minority candidate, then how do they know they are not qualified? Like I said, I don't know a solution. I think things are much better, but it was fairly obvious there were problems. Things take time and percentages are a good indicator. I don't think you can just look at the 13% US population or the 65% NFL population at this point. Those are poor indicators, but the 18% number shows that the number of minority coaches has gone up. We can expect that number to grow slowly over time.
Along those lines, what is the percentage break down of other minorities such as hispanics and asians in the NFL? I don't think there are that many other minorties represented as players in the NFL. That statement is not made to insinuate anything wrong. It is what it is at this point. If you have only 1% or 2% of the NFL as hispanic, why would you expect a high percentage of coaches? The numbers tend to go together because former players like to stay involved in the game and become coaches. Not just NFL players, but college players who could not make it to the next level.
I think the NFL has more of a problem of being too "incestuous" than anything. By that I mean, they recycle the same guys over and over. Need a defensive coordinator? Hire Coach So-and-so, he has been a DC for 6 teams now. When a new guy comes in, many look at it and grimace. Teams are looked down when they hire outside the box.
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Coaching searches become more inclusive
By CHRIS JENKINS
(AP) - Under pressure from civil rights advocates three years ago, the NFL established a rule requiring teams to interview at least one minority candidate before hiring a head coach.
But this year, the so-called "Rooney Rule" is being supplanted by one of football's more time-honoured tenets: If it works, consider copying it.
In a breakthrough year for black coaches, the Chicago Bears' Lovie Smith and Cincinnati Bengals' Marvin Lewis led recently downtrodden teams to the playoffs. Tony Dungy's Indianapolis Colts flirted with a perfect season.
Now their success - Smith and Dungy finished 1-2 in AP Coach of the Year voting - might be making less-successful teams more receptive to minority candidates.
"I don't think it's that simple," says Atlanta Falcons executive vice president Ray Anderson, a former agent to Dungy, Lewis and other top coaches. "But historically, there have been some 'copycat' tendencies in the league."
There are six black head coaches in the NFL: Smith, Dungy, Lewis, Arizona's Denny Green, Cleveland's Romeo Crennel and new Kansas City Chiefs coach Herman Edwards.
And judging by the way teams have conducted their coaching searches this off-season, more might be on the way - if not this year, then down the road.
With an unusually high number of open head coaching jobs this off-season, several teams have gone beyond NFL requirements to interview multiple minority candidates.
Even if most teams still end up hiring white coaches, the trend is seen as progress.
Cyrus Mehri, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who partnered with the late Johnnie Cochran to pressure the NFL into establishing minority hiring guidelines for teams after the 2002 season, expects to see a record number of minority coaching interviews this off-season.
Mehri says teams might finally be getting the message: They shouldn't interview minority candidates simply because they have to. They should want to, because it might improve their teams.
"If you give people the opportunity and open your mind to a broader slate of candidates, you can get results," Mehri says.
In October 2002, Cochran and Mehri issued a report titled, "Black Coaches in the National Football League: Superior Performance, Inferior Opportunities." They threatened to sue if the NFL didn't take steps to help minority coaching candidates.
The NFL hastily formed a diversity committee, chaired by Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney. Rooney's rule: Before hiring a head coach, a team must interview at least one minority candidate, unless it is promoting a current assistant coach.
Mehri - legal counsel to the Fritz Pollard Alliance, an organization named after the NFL's first black head coach and set up to help develop minority coaching candidates - said their initial tone was "slightly adversarial" and didn't sit well with owners or fans.
"When the rule came out three years ago, there was a little bit of a pushback on it," Mehri said. "Now, people see the results."
They also saw what happened to Detroit Lions general manager Matt Millen.
Millen didn't interview a minority candidate before hiring Steve Mariucci in 2003. As criticism mounted, Millen couldn't find a minority candidate who would agree to what obviously would have been a token interview. The league fined Millen $200,000 US.
"There's teeth in that initiative," Anderson said.
Now the Lions are looking for Mariucci's replacement, and reportedly have spoken to at least three minority candidates: Bears Hall of Fame linebacker Mike Singletary, Browns offensive co-ordinator Maurice Carthon and New York Giants defensive co-ordinator Tim Lewis.
Mehri says he does not think Millen is simply trying to protect himself the second time around.
"I think it's sincere," Mehri said. "Because he didn't serve his team well just by interviewing one person."
According to media reports, Carthon also has interviewed with the Packers and Saints; Lewis has interviewed with the Packers and St. Louis Rams; Bears defensive coordinator Ron Rivera, who is Hispanic, has interviewed with the Packers and Rams; New York Jets defensive coordinator Donnie Henderson has interviewed with the Rams and Saints; and the Vikings interviewed Colts assistant head coach Jim Caldwell and their own defensive coordinator, Ted Cottrell.
The Vikings and Packers ultimately hired white coaches; Minnesota introduced Brad Childress last week and Green Bay hired Mike McCarthy on Thursday.
"It is progress when Maurice Carthon and Tim Lewis are getting multiple shots," Anderson said. "The rule was not intended to guarantee minorities a job. The rule was intended to give opportunity."
After firing coach Dom Capers, the Houston Texans interviewed wide receivers coach Kippy Brown, who is black.
Brown is considered a long shot to get the job. But a few years ago, he might not even have gotten the interview - which, at the very least, might give him more name recognition around the league.
"There was a time when guys that looked like me didn't get those opportunities," Brown said. "And now it's happening, so it's positive."
But the biggest sign of progress this week might have come from Kansas City, where the Chiefs sent a draft pick to the Jets to get Edwards.
Edwards, though respected in football circles, has a career 39-41 regular season record.
One of the main complaints advanced by Cochran and Mehri three years ago was that the few black coaches who were hired were "afforded far less room for error than similarly situated whites."
Edwards, meanwhile, wants to put the issue to rest.
"We're getting to the point where you don't say I'm an African-American coach," Edwards said. "I'm just 'Coach."'
link
By CHRIS JENKINS
(AP) - Under pressure from civil rights advocates three years ago, the NFL established a rule requiring teams to interview at least one minority candidate before hiring a head coach.
But this year, the so-called "Rooney Rule" is being supplanted by one of football's more time-honoured tenets: If it works, consider copying it.
In a breakthrough year for black coaches, the Chicago Bears' Lovie Smith and Cincinnati Bengals' Marvin Lewis led recently downtrodden teams to the playoffs. Tony Dungy's Indianapolis Colts flirted with a perfect season.
Now their success - Smith and Dungy finished 1-2 in AP Coach of the Year voting - might be making less-successful teams more receptive to minority candidates.
"I don't think it's that simple," says Atlanta Falcons executive vice president Ray Anderson, a former agent to Dungy, Lewis and other top coaches. "But historically, there have been some 'copycat' tendencies in the league."
There are six black head coaches in the NFL: Smith, Dungy, Lewis, Arizona's Denny Green, Cleveland's Romeo Crennel and new Kansas City Chiefs coach Herman Edwards.
And judging by the way teams have conducted their coaching searches this off-season, more might be on the way - if not this year, then down the road.
With an unusually high number of open head coaching jobs this off-season, several teams have gone beyond NFL requirements to interview multiple minority candidates.
Even if most teams still end up hiring white coaches, the trend is seen as progress.
Cyrus Mehri, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who partnered with the late Johnnie Cochran to pressure the NFL into establishing minority hiring guidelines for teams after the 2002 season, expects to see a record number of minority coaching interviews this off-season.
Mehri says teams might finally be getting the message: They shouldn't interview minority candidates simply because they have to. They should want to, because it might improve their teams.
"If you give people the opportunity and open your mind to a broader slate of candidates, you can get results," Mehri says.
In October 2002, Cochran and Mehri issued a report titled, "Black Coaches in the National Football League: Superior Performance, Inferior Opportunities." They threatened to sue if the NFL didn't take steps to help minority coaching candidates.
The NFL hastily formed a diversity committee, chaired by Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney. Rooney's rule: Before hiring a head coach, a team must interview at least one minority candidate, unless it is promoting a current assistant coach.
Mehri - legal counsel to the Fritz Pollard Alliance, an organization named after the NFL's first black head coach and set up to help develop minority coaching candidates - said their initial tone was "slightly adversarial" and didn't sit well with owners or fans.
"When the rule came out three years ago, there was a little bit of a pushback on it," Mehri said. "Now, people see the results."
They also saw what happened to Detroit Lions general manager Matt Millen.
Millen didn't interview a minority candidate before hiring Steve Mariucci in 2003. As criticism mounted, Millen couldn't find a minority candidate who would agree to what obviously would have been a token interview. The league fined Millen $200,000 US.
"There's teeth in that initiative," Anderson said.
Now the Lions are looking for Mariucci's replacement, and reportedly have spoken to at least three minority candidates: Bears Hall of Fame linebacker Mike Singletary, Browns offensive co-ordinator Maurice Carthon and New York Giants defensive co-ordinator Tim Lewis.
Mehri says he does not think Millen is simply trying to protect himself the second time around.
"I think it's sincere," Mehri said. "Because he didn't serve his team well just by interviewing one person."
According to media reports, Carthon also has interviewed with the Packers and Saints; Lewis has interviewed with the Packers and St. Louis Rams; Bears defensive coordinator Ron Rivera, who is Hispanic, has interviewed with the Packers and Rams; New York Jets defensive coordinator Donnie Henderson has interviewed with the Rams and Saints; and the Vikings interviewed Colts assistant head coach Jim Caldwell and their own defensive coordinator, Ted Cottrell.
The Vikings and Packers ultimately hired white coaches; Minnesota introduced Brad Childress last week and Green Bay hired Mike McCarthy on Thursday.
"It is progress when Maurice Carthon and Tim Lewis are getting multiple shots," Anderson said. "The rule was not intended to guarantee minorities a job. The rule was intended to give opportunity."
After firing coach Dom Capers, the Houston Texans interviewed wide receivers coach Kippy Brown, who is black.
Brown is considered a long shot to get the job. But a few years ago, he might not even have gotten the interview - which, at the very least, might give him more name recognition around the league.
"There was a time when guys that looked like me didn't get those opportunities," Brown said. "And now it's happening, so it's positive."
But the biggest sign of progress this week might have come from Kansas City, where the Chiefs sent a draft pick to the Jets to get Edwards.
Edwards, though respected in football circles, has a career 39-41 regular season record.
One of the main complaints advanced by Cochran and Mehri three years ago was that the few black coaches who were hired were "afforded far less room for error than similarly situated whites."
Edwards, meanwhile, wants to put the issue to rest.
"We're getting to the point where you don't say I'm an African-American coach," Edwards said. "I'm just 'Coach."'
link
trueblue1687
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sportsman said:
So which way do you want it?? Do you want the HC position to reflect Affirmative action, or do want the players to reflect it. While we're at it, let's cry foul over there being a disproportionate number of caucasian players in the league, or Indian (American). My point is, your whole post means nothing today. If this were the 1960's then you would have an point. The Black race (or African- American as some people prefer...although the only REAL African- American I've ever met was a caucasian girl from South Africa) has WAY more opportunities than they ever have as a race. I believe as I always have: if qualifications prove that you are more suited for the job then you deserve it no matter what color you are. Ultimately it is up to the person actually OFFERING the job as to who he/she wants doing it. Making someone hire a person based on their skin color is the REAL definition of bigotry and alot of the Black guys I know are offended by the thought of getting a job or special consideration based only on skin color or what happened to them in the past. If that were the case, all of my great grandparents were killed marching on a trail being moved to "reservations" over a hundred years ago, so you know how that affects me today?? It doesn't...at all. Give those HC jobs to the guy who can win you the most games, period. Forget the BS about how many were Black, White, etc. Sorry for the rant, my .02
Ashwynn
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So what?
The thing I think is hurting America is this thing right here. No black coaches hired.
Why do we have to be Black or white or yellow.
We are all Americans.
Whys it has to be a blackman that is hired or an hispanic or an asian. Why cant it just be an American.
Quit looking for ways to hate. Thats all this is, is racial hatred. Calling out the white man cause the black man did not get hired.
We really need to be thinking in terms of Americans. Not black and white issues. Till we change this attitude and this way of thinking we wont stop the hate or the violence.
I knew someone would bring this up and I am sorry it did come up. I am sure a lot of pple wont like my answer. But there it is. We should all be Americans, not a bunch of whitre men living amoung a bunch of black men living amoung a bunch of asian men etc... all in America.
The best candidate should be hired regardless of his color. The best man for the job should be decided by the owner, not the color of his skin. If I have to hire a black man or an asian to meet government quotas, are you really being hired because your what I am looking for. Are you going to feel comfortable doing a job your not the best qualified for but got just fcause someone of color had to have that position. Affirmative Action is just as bad as Black balling someone. Your not hired for who you are or what you know, but simply because the government says I need 4 minorities working for me. This is just as wrong as the action it was meant to replace.
Please dont consider this racially repugnant. Dont consider this a slam against anyone ethnic group. Please do consider changing the way you think in terms of that black man or that asian chick. When we all become Americans of equal respect, theres really no need to identifiers like black or asian. And isn't that what we really want in the first place.
The thing I think is hurting America is this thing right here. No black coaches hired.
Why do we have to be Black or white or yellow.
We are all Americans.
Whys it has to be a blackman that is hired or an hispanic or an asian. Why cant it just be an American.
Quit looking for ways to hate. Thats all this is, is racial hatred. Calling out the white man cause the black man did not get hired.
We really need to be thinking in terms of Americans. Not black and white issues. Till we change this attitude and this way of thinking we wont stop the hate or the violence.
I knew someone would bring this up and I am sorry it did come up. I am sure a lot of pple wont like my answer. But there it is. We should all be Americans, not a bunch of whitre men living amoung a bunch of black men living amoung a bunch of asian men etc... all in America.
The best candidate should be hired regardless of his color. The best man for the job should be decided by the owner, not the color of his skin. If I have to hire a black man or an asian to meet government quotas, are you really being hired because your what I am looking for. Are you going to feel comfortable doing a job your not the best qualified for but got just fcause someone of color had to have that position. Affirmative Action is just as bad as Black balling someone. Your not hired for who you are or what you know, but simply because the government says I need 4 minorities working for me. This is just as wrong as the action it was meant to replace.
Please dont consider this racially repugnant. Dont consider this a slam against anyone ethnic group. Please do consider changing the way you think in terms of that black man or that asian chick. When we all become Americans of equal respect, theres really no need to identifiers like black or asian. And isn't that what we really want in the first place.
royhitshard
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AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!jja050575 said:
AbeBeta
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jja050575 said:
the only thing more tiresome than hearing about this "racism crap" is having folks continually deny that it exists. if you honestly believe that minorities have more opportunities in this country then i feel sorry for your ignorance.
DOOMSDAYREBORN
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No one is saying that an NFL team should hire an African American( their original roots came from Africa and had no choice in coming here, unlike your "REAL" AA) just because he is an African American. Just allow them to be part of the process. How else would you find out if they are qualified. If pressure had not been put on the NFL you would not have the African American coaches that you have now.
It's makes absolutely no sense that some of you say, why is no one asking about Chinese, Hispanics or women. Exactly how many of them are playing in the league or trying to be head coaches? Also to say, why are there not more caucasian players? These players are scouted in college and some are not able to take it to the next level. If an African American is not allowed to be part of the process, how do you know if he is ready to be part of the NFL?
Peace
It's makes absolutely no sense that some of you say, why is no one asking about Chinese, Hispanics or women. Exactly how many of them are playing in the league or trying to be head coaches? Also to say, why are there not more caucasian players? These players are scouted in college and some are not able to take it to the next level. If an African American is not allowed to be part of the process, how do you know if he is ready to be part of the NFL?
Peace
CactusCowboy
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Originally Posted by jja050575
so what!!! get off the racism crap, people get tired of hearing it. minorities in this world get more oppurtunities than any white americans as it is, so quit beating a dead horse!!!
Double Amen!
so what!!! get off the racism crap, people get tired of hearing it. minorities in this world get more oppurtunities than any white americans as it is, so quit beating a dead horse!!!
Double Amen!
jja050575
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in case you haven't noticed lately, how many white american loans can white people get today? or better yet how many white yellow pages? there is a clothing store down the road from me called Ebony Mart, selling nothing but african american products(as their slogan clearly states), knowing damn well whites would be racist if we had Ivory Mart. better yet, how about if i try to get a job that i am more than qualified for and had many years of college, but get overlooked because an african american who has no qualifications at all gets it just because the color of his skin dictates it, called these days as affirmative action, but thats fair right? so don't tell me anything about that racist crap!!!!!!!!!!!