***Official Cuts Thread***

[MossBurner]

You have to be joking ...... not even a Commander fan can be that blind

My point was that not all draft picks pan out. If you trade a pick for a proven player, there is little to no risk involved. There is also no developmental time or wasted roster spot with a project player.

 

[MossBurner]

Guess the same could be said for Chris Canty from last year also, right?

Sure. Canty was a great pickup. But for every Canty, there are 4 nobody's.

 

[theogt]

Sure. Canty was a great pickup. But for every Canty, there are 4 nobody's.

Dude you got owned in this thread. I'm surprised you showed back up.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Cincinnati S John Busing, RB DeDe Dorsey, TE Ronnie Ghent, DE Eric Henderson, WR Glenn Holt, TE David Jones, G Nate Livings, OT Pete Lougheed, FB Chris Manderino, WR P.K. Sam, TE Darnell Sanders, FB Naufahu Tahi, G Kyle Takavitz, C Ben Wilkerson

Chicago OL Steve Edwards, LB Jeremy Cain (INJ), WR Craig Bragg, DB Dion Byrum, DT Delbert Cowesette, DB Abraham Elimimian, RB Andre Hall, DB Jason Harmon, DB Carlos Hendricks, G Travis Leffew, WR Mark Philmore
Cleveland CB Pete Hunter, WR Frisman Jackson, T Babatunde Oshinowo, RB Lee Suggs, T Ross Tucker

Denver RB Ron Dayne, WR Darius Watts

Detroit OT Kelly Butler, LB James Davis, S Marcus Demps, WR Devale Ellis, DT Damian Gregory, C Brock Gutierrez, LB James Hargrave, DE Claude Harriott, CB LaMarcus Hicks, WR Glenn Martinez, G Fred Matua, CB Dee McCann, DT Lynn McGruder, TE Sean McHugh, DE Marcus Parker, TE Dave Pearson, DT Cleveland Pinkney, RB Artose Pinner, WR Charles Rogers, CB Harrison Smith and OT Clint Stickdorn.

Houston DE Jeff Charleston, DE Earl Cochran, LB Sam Cowart, FS Kevin Curtis, CB Mark Estelle, TE Aaron Halterman, G David Loverne, FB Nick Luchey, LB Kenneth Pettway, QB Cody Pickett, QB Quinton Porter, WR Richie Ross, WR Jake Schifino, RB Antowain Smith, FS John Walker, T Seth Wand, LB Courtney Watson, G Chris Watton, CB Tramon Williams, DE Darrell Wright

New England LB Monty Beisel, WR Eddie Berlin, QB Corey Bramlet, LB Chad Brown, CB Vernell Brown, DL Eddie Freeman, TE Chris Luzar, LB Jeremy Mincey, WR John Stone, CB Eric Warfield

Pittsburgh P Mike Barr, QB Shane Boyd, OL Tim Brown, TE Charles Davis, TE Jon Dekker, DE Orien Harris, RB Cedric Humes, QB Omar Jacobs, FB Branden Joe, FB John Kuhn, S Mike Lorello, CB Anthony Madison, WR Lee Mays, DE Shaun Nua, DT Scott Paxson, LB Richard Seigler, LB Ron Stanley, OL Brandon Torrey, DE Lee Vickers, WR Walter Young

St. Louis TE Jerome Collins, S Deandre Eiland, LB Mike Goolsby,CB DeJuan Groce, P Andy Groom, TE Alex Holmes, DT Brian Howard, LB Tim McGarigle, WR Brandon Middleton, T Ben Noll, G Tony Palmer, WR Brad Pyatt, QB Dave Ragone, C Donovan Raiola, DE Matthew Rice, RB Fred Russell, DT Tim Sandidge, WR Clinton Solomon, T Drew Strojny, WR Taylor Stubblefield, WR Dominique Thompson, RB John David Washington, RB Moe Williams

 

[Hostile]

My point was that not all draft picks pan out. If you trade a pick for a proven player, there is little to no risk involved. There is also no developmental time or wasted roster spot with a project player.

Pray tell me one player who they traded for who ever gave you the production that Stephen Davis did as a draft pick.

Just one.

This is Vegas. Don't bet the house. The house always wins.

 

[zrinkill]

Sure. Canty was a great pickup. But for every Canty, there are 4 nobody's.

Has any of the free agents that Washington has mortgaged their draft picks for worked out for the Skins?

 

[Deep_Freeze]

My point was that not all draft picks pan out. If you trade a pick for a proven player, there is little to no risk involved. There is also no developmental time or wasted roster spot with a project player.

Goodness, you really don't believe this do you??

The player you get in free agency can be equal to the player you can get in the draft, except the drafted players has more upside and is just plain cheaper.

 

[Chuck 54]

Interesting, Petitti and Boiman was on everyone's keep list. Looks like we are either keeping people we don't expect, or picking up people from other teams.

Not mine, and I caught a lot of crap for saying Pettitti just wasn't good enough...his pass protection was the problem, not his run blocking or character.

 

[LeonDixson]

Not mine, and I caught a lot of crap for saying Pettitti just wasn't good enough...his pass protection was the problem, not his run blocking or character.

I was surprised by Pettitti and M. Stanley. The others i'm not. You can't keep everyone so a guy like Boiman whom you would like to keep for special teams has to be squeezed out.

I'm really pleased that we cut Green and Copper in favor of Hurd and Rector.

 

[lspain1]

Bucs Info (note on Torrin Tucker):

In addition to those roster moves, the Bucs placed offensive tackle Torrin Tucker on injured reserve.

Bucs Roster Cuts – 9/2/06
TE Mark Anelli
DE Charles Bennett
DT Jon Bradley
DT Anthony Bryant
LB Marquis Cooper
S Steve Cargile
G/C Jonathan Clinkscale
FB Carey Davis
CB Dwight Ellick
G Toniu Fonoti
WR Chas Gessner
T Scott Jackson
TE Tim Massaquoi
S Donte Nicholson
CB James Patrick
FB Rick Razzano
WR Edell Shepherd
LB Anthony Trucks
T Torrin Tucker (Injured Reserve)
RB Derek Watson
DE Andrew Williams
DE/DT Keith Wright

 

[rw54]

Anthony Bryant is someone we should look at for backup nosetackle.

Bucs Info (note on Torrin Tucker):

In addition to those roster moves, the Bucs placed offensive tackle Torrin Tucker on injured reserve.

Bucs Roster Cuts – 9/2/06
TE Mark Anelli
DE Charles Bennett
DT Jon Bradley
DT Anthony Bryant
LB Marquis Cooper
S Steve Cargile
G/C Jonathan Clinkscale
FB Carey Davis
CB Dwight Ellick
G Toniu Fonoti
WR Chas Gessner
T Scott Jackson
TE Tim Massaquoi
S Donte Nicholson
CB James Patrick
FB Rick Razzano
WR Edell Shepherd
LB Anthony Trucks
T Torrin Tucker (Injured Reserve)
RB Derek Watson
DE Andrew Williams
DE/DT Keith Wright

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I caught a lot of crap for saying Pettitti just wasn't good enough...

God, hw I hate it when you're right, Wayne.

 

[AsthmaField]

Sure. Canty was a great pickup. But for every Canty, there are 4 nobody's.

Dude, I see what you're saying, but I think it's just incorrect. In theory, that's true, but you keep trading more than 1 pick for 1 player. That will catch up to you eventually.

Just off the top of my head for Dallas since Bill has been here:

Terence Newman
Jason Witten
Bradie James
Patrick Crayton
Julius Jones
Jacques Reeves
Nate Jones
Al Johnson
Demarcus Ware
Marcus Spears
Kevin Burnett
Marion Barber
Chris Canty
Jay Ratliff
Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Jason Hatcher
Pat Watkins
Pat McQuistan

That is 19 players we used draft picks on that are now currently on the 53 man roster. That's not even considering what type of cheap contribution other players might have made on special teams that are now off of the team.

Most of those guys have had cheap contracts and have played very well. When you trade for a Lloyd or get a Randal El in FA... you have to pay those guys... and they're second tier talent. Good, but not great. If they were great, SF and Pitt would never have let them get away. You'll almost never get elite talent like that. A team may be wrong about a player like S. Moss and the Jets, but you can't make a living counting on that very often.

What Hos said about Stephen Davis and his contribution to the Commanders, is right on target. Very few free agents or players acquired in a trade have made that kind of contribution to the team. Some have, but it's just a handful.

Why is that? Because teams just don't let true difference makers go very often... and when they do, like Portis, they want a difference maker in return, like Champ Bailey. So the net gain in great players to your squad is zero. Not to mention that you gave a 2nd round pick up to give them Bailey, which was just plain stupid. CB's are harder to come by than RB's... at the least that should've been a straight up trade. Denver should've given up a second and Portis for Champ, IMO. But who cares about a second right? Not when it is what stands between little Danny and Portis.

I still can't believe you kept Arrington and let Champ go. Talk about blunders! In a 4-3, LB's just aren't that important. CB's are always important, and elite one's are almost impossible to come by. To give Lavar the big contract and let Champ go becasue you didn't want to pay him was lunicy. The Commanders knew they couldn't pay both, yet let Champ go.

My point is though, teams just don't let their great players go. In order to get one, you have to draft one or give up one to get one like Champ/Portis.

In the above list, the players who could end up being special are:

Newman
Witten
James
Jones
Ware
Spears
Burnett
Canty
Carpenter
Fasano
Hatcher
Watkins

Of those left off, even a seventh rounder like McQuistan could end up being a pro bowler... we just don't know yet.

the players who were taken 3rd round or later:

Witten
James
Crayton
Reeves
N. Jones
Barber
Canty
Ratliff
Hatcher
Watkins
McQuistan

The Commanders throws these types of picks (3rd and later) around like so much garbage. They don't bat an eyelash at throwing them away. Yet, look at the type of contribution you can get from those guys. Witten is a multiple pro bowler. James is a very good starting LB on a 3-4 and very well could end up in multiple pro bowls. Crayton is a versitile 3rd receiver. Reeves is very close to being better than Aaron Glenn and will be there very soon if he isn't already. Nate Jones is a good backup. Barber may be better than Julius Jones and is a perfect back off of the bench. Canty should end up a multiple pro bowler and might be the best DL we have. Ratliff is pushing 1st rounder Marcus Spears to be the starter, per Bill Parcells... and that's no reflection on Spears... it's just that Ratliff is playing that well. Hatcher probably is the most athletic DL that we have and may already be the best pass rusher out of all the DL. He's going to be a very good player. Watkins may end up being a special player at FS and already shows special traits back there that every other safety on the team doesn't have. Parcells said that we were darn lucky to get McQuistan in the 7th round. That he has everything you need to be a very good tackle, but he wasn't able to show it in college for various reasons.

Now, let's say the Commanders end up with McQuistan and that McQuistan does end up as a pro bowler. When you guys get him, he'll cost an arm and a leg, and if you had to trade for him then you would have to trade WAY more than a 7th round pick to get a pro bowler. Those guys, in their prime, usually cost at least a 1st rounder. Now you don't see those trades very often. Why? Because teams don't trade them or let them go through free agency very often. So if he is truly a pro bowler, then either the Commanders will never get him or he'll cost you multiple picks and a big contract.

For dallas though, he cost us a 7th and a small contract for four years. When it's time for him to enter free agency, we'll sign him to a big contract and keep him... but we will always have had him cheap for 4 years, and he'll never cost us more than a 7th.

That is why I think getting experienced players with draft picks is will eventually catch up with you. You'll always get second tier talent like Lloyd and Randal El... or they'll be flawed somehow like T.O. is, because teams don't let players like Ware and Merriman go.

 

[roughneck266]

Not gonna quote it because of the length but that is one heck of an explanation. Good job!

 

[vicjagger]

Dude, I see what you're saying,,, .. or they'll be flawed somehow like T.O. is, because teams don't let players like Ware and Merriman go.

Excellent post!

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Great analysis, building a team on old free agents is a very short term answer for any team in any sport.

 

[speedkilz88]

T Babatunde Oshinowo - anyone know how well/bad Oshi played for the Browns?

Kelly Butler - Hey wasn't this one of the OTs the Cowboys should have taken instead of Jacob Rogers or Peterman?(fell to the 6th) Didn't pan out either. (Parcells does seem to like Lion castoffs - Kosier/Procter)

Fred Matua - Wasn't this the guy some wanted instead of McQuistan?

Darius Watts - 2004 2nd round pick

Courtney Watson - 2004 2nd round pick(Saints)

 

[Chuck 54]

God, hw I hate it when you're right, Wayne.

At least you don't have to deal with it very often...

I really would have liked for him to be a top OT because he had the personality of a Tuinei or Gogan, quiet, hardworker, but for a second year guy to get so little playing time in preseason, and none with the starters, well...the handwriting was on the wall.

 

[Cowboys&Caps]

An example of why the Skins' method of trading 3rd and 4th rounders for proven players is not such a bad idea.

of course you dont' give the other side......

Canty, Jason Furguson, even your own Cooley, Romo was undrafted

its dumb to give away picks like the skins do.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

MossBurned

it's gonna be kind of hard to get your idea accepted on here when our leading tackler from last year and team leader, our starting RDE, and a huge part of our RB corp, were 4th round picks, I suggest you take your doctrine back to ES, you will be hailed a hero