Oh! Good Grief!!! Enough already!!

[Chief]

Chief, I noticed you have alluded to that before..

I know little about Lee, just the official bio kiss-up...

can you elaborate when you get the chance?

My biased opinion comes from Lee's time as head coach at UTEP. Now, granted, UTEP isn't the easiest place to carve out a successful coaching career, but they really hit rock bottom when he was there. They went from bad to worse. Lee ran the offense and had some sort of version of the wishbone.

Lee has a long association with Ken Hatfield and that's his connection to Parcells.

I was ok as long as Lee was doing "quality control," whatever that is. But QB coach?

 

[Mike 1967]

I got a question

Why would you be overly concerned about someone elses opinion when it ultimately has no impact on you ?

I suppose I could understand the angst if you were a politician and this was a poll. But this is not a poll.

If you are a Henson fan...then the only people who's opinions you should have angst over are the decision makers in Dallas.

And last I checked...none of those on this board fell into that group.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

My biased opinion comes from Lee's time as head coach at UTEP. Now, granted, UTEP isn't the easiest place to carve out a successful coaching career, but they really hit rock bottom when he was there. They went from bad to worse. Lee ran the offense and had some sort of version of the wishbone.

Lee has a long association with Ken Hatfield and that's his connection to Parcells.

I was ok as long as Lee was doing "quality control," whatever that is. But QB coach?

Offensive coach ok, but a wishbone variety..I don't see anything in that resume that specifically signals "NFL QB coach" credentials.

In other words, Chief, he has none?

I'm not purposely being dense, just getting worried.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Memo to the Henson bashers. You'd do well to follow 'Roshi's lead. Something tells me that, deep down, he pulls for Romo (apologies 'Roshi, if I'm mischaracterizing your allegiances -- I base this only on some of the more subtle features (including what goes unsaid) in your other posts). But, as his well-placed sarcasm illustrates, he doesn't allow that to cause him to write off Henson on the basis of a few sub-par practices in only his second season. Imagine that.

I root for Romo in that I think its unfair that people hold it against him that he went undrafted, when he really had no right going undrafted. He shouldn't have gone undrafted. He is too good of a player, and talented. The GM's who passed him over in the draft were speaking more to his competition level than him as a player.

On Henson, I think both sides are ridiculous. The side that wanted the organization to hand Henson the starting job in the offseason is just as ridiculous as the side that labels him a bust after his first week of training camp practice. The ones who blame Parcells for Henson looking so terrible in the Bears game make me laugh as much the ones who proclaim Tony Romo to be the next Tom Brady.


I supported the trade that brought Henson here, and still do. However, he is a LONG TERM PROJECT. I would also pause before overstating Henson's "pedigree" before coming to the Cowboys. We don't know he would have been a Top 5 pick. We don't even know he would have been a first round pick. Andy Katzenmoyer at one time was going to be a Top 10 pick. He could have had a terrible year the following year. He never had to go through the Combine and draft process to have 32 NFL scouts pick him apart. A lot can change in the 4 months leading up to the draft, much less 2 years. Ask Kyle Orton. I will say that last year I didn't quite see the cannon arm everyone had attributed to him, and I have pretty firm confidence that it might have lead to his now well publicized throwing mechanics changes. Not saying its not strong enough to get the job done, but I wouldn't put it in the upper league of NFL arms.

Unfortunately, this whole Romo vs. Henson argument turns into such an antagonistic, one-ups-manship that you have to be either one or the other. it resembles "conservative vs. liberal" political arguments where both sides end up looking like complete idiots.

 

[Gatorgirl]

My biased opinion comes from Lee's time as head coach at UTEP. Now, granted, UTEP isn't the easiest place to carve out a successful coaching career, but they really hit rock bottom when he was there. They went from bad to worse. Lee ran the offense and had some sort of version of the wishbone.

Lee has a long association with Ken Hatfield and that's his connection to Parcells.

I was ok as long as Lee was doing "quality control," whatever that is. But QB coach?

If what you say is true, it sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. YIKES!

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

I root for Romo in that I think its unfair that people hold it against him that he went undrafted, when he really had no right going undrafted. He shouldn't have gone undrafted. He is too good of a player, and talented. The GM's who passed him over in the draft were speaking more to his competition level than him as a player.

On Henson, I think both sides are ridiculous. The side that wanted the organization to hand Henson the starting job in the offseason is just as ridiculous as the side that labels him a bust after his first week of training camp practice. The ones who blame Parcells for Henson looking so terrible in the Bears game make me laugh as much the ones who proclaim Tony Romo to be the next Tom Brady.


I supported the trade that brought Henson here, and still do. However, he is a LONG TERM PROJECT. I would also pause before overstating Henson's "pedigree" before coming to the Cowboys. We don't know he would have been a Top 5 pick. We don't even know he would have been a first round pick. He could have had a terrible year the following year. He never had to go through the Combine and draft process to have 32 NFL scouts pick him apart. A lot can change in the 4 months leading up to the draft, much less 2 years. Ask Kyle Orton. I will say that last year I didn't quite see the cannon arm everyone had attributed to him, and I have pretty firm confidence that it might have lead to his now well publicized throwing mechanics changes. Not saying its not strong enough to get the job done, but I wouldn't put it in the upper league of NFL arms.

Unfortunately, this whole Romo vs. Henson argument turns into such an antagonistic, one-ups-manship that you have to be either one or the other. it resembles "conservative vs. liberal" political arguments where both sides end up looking like complete idiots.

Points taken.

On the pedigree issue, doubtless things can change in 3 years (or even in 4 months, as you suggest). But that shouldn't obscure the fact that the last time Henson was seeing regular action he showed star quality. So much so, in fact, that the Michigan staff couldn't keep him off the field even though the guy in front of him was a guy that has gone on to sew up 3 Lombardi's and virtually lock up a position in Canton. A great deal gets made of the fact that Henson started only 8 games in college. Those that followed Michigan at the time know that the real measure of his potential wasn't the eight starts once Brady left, but the 20 some odd other games in which he forced himself into the line-up while Brady was still there.

Does that mean Henson is destined to follow in Brady's footsteps, or even approach that level of accomplishment? Of course not. But he does have pedigree. And yes, there have been other players with great pedigree that have busted. But that's a different argument altogether, and one needn't deny Henson's pedigree in order to make that argument.

 

[NeOn_KoWbOy_88]

I just can't understand why there are so many people on this board so ready to annoint Henson a failure. They jump at the chance to point out mistakes he has made.The man played baseball for 3 years and since coming back to football has been asked to completely change his throwing motion. Cut the man some slack. We should all be routing for him. If he does well then we have found our QB of the future for a third round pick. If he fails, be glad we didn't waste a first round pick on him. Is he the future? Noboby knows but we should at least give him a chance. I personally feel he should of played last year after we were eliminated from the playoffs. He has the pedigree to succeed only time will tell if he has everthing else. :bang2:

BTW - A lot of people forget Quincy couldn't even throw a spiral when he first got here. He learned to throw the proper way and would probably be still on the roster if he didn't have his head up his arse.

do you think hes worth the money hes gettin paid to sit on the bench? but before i bash him or say hes our future i wanna see him play 3 or 4 games to see how he prepairs, and if he learns from mistakes, kinda like how Quincy C. never learned how to cut down on the Int's.

 

[SuspectCorner]

I just can't understand why there are so many people on this board so ready to annoint Henson a failure. They jump at the chance to point out mistakes he has made.The man played baseball for 3 years and since coming back to football has been asked to completely change his throwing motion. Cut the man some slack. We should all be routing for him. If he does well then we have found our QB of the future for a third round pick. If he fails, be glad we didn't waste a first round pick on him. Is he the future? Noboby knows but we should at least give him a chance. I personally feel he should of played last year after we were eliminated from the playoffs. He has the pedigree to succeed only time will tell if he has everthing else. :bang2:

BTW - A lot of people forget Quincy couldn't even throw a spiral when he first got here. He learned to throw the proper way and would probably be still on the roster if he didn't have his head up his arse.

"pedigree" is a term that should rarely be applied to pro football. show me where drew henson's dad was an NFL-calibre player, much less QB, and i'll buy into the pedigree deal. otherwise, drop it. it annoys me to no end.

secondly, these athletes ain't cars. changing their "mechanics" not only affects the fluid nature of their performances - it often relieves them of the very aspects of their game which were remarkable. sure, sometimes it does pay off. but there ain't no guarantees.

maybe Dallas shoulda just said to Henson "okay kid... just let 'er rip."

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

"pedigree" is a term that should rarely be applied to pro football. show me where drew henson's dad was an NFL-calibre player, much less QB, and i'll buy into the pedigree deal. otherwise, drop it. it annoys me to no end.

You are, of course, insisting upon a technically correct usage of the the term. However, it's sometimes used colloquially (and loosely, no doubt) to refer to quality evidenced in one's past (on the theory, I suppose, that being "purebred" is synonymous with being of "quality", and that past credentials are analogous to lineage). If it bothers you that much, however, I'm happy to stay with the more etymologically correct usage and drop my own usage of the term in connection with NFL QBs, except in reference to, say, the Mannings.

 

[Kilyin]

I have nothing to add to this thread, except to say I've never heard anyone use the term "Good Grief" besides Charlie Brown.

 

[cml750]

"pedigree" is a term that should rarely be applied to pro football. show me where drew henson's dad was an NFL-calibre player, much less QB, and i'll buy into the pedigree deal. otherwise, drop it. it annoys me to no end.

secondly, these athletes ain't cars. changing their "mechanics" not only affects the fluid nature of their performances - it often relieves them of the very aspects of their game which were remarkable. sure, sometimes it does pay off. but there ain't no guarantees.

maybe Dallas shoulda just said to Henson "okay kid... just let 'er rip."

As for as pedigree goes I meant he came from a big time college program. As to the rest of your statement I believe you are right on. It was crazy to try to change his throwing motion. Just because someone's mechanics are not perfect doesn't mean that they won't work. Take Jeff Bagwell of the Houston Astros. He has always had one of the worst batting stances in the history of baseball. There were probably several batting coaches that tried to get him to change but he kept what worked for him and has turned in what is probably a hall of fame career. From all the filmm I saw of Henson when he was training to get back into football it certainly looked like he had no problems with throwing. They should of just let the man play.

 

[Chief]

Offensive coach ok, but a wishbone variety..I don't see anything in that resume that specifically signals "NFL QB coach" credentials.

In other words, Chief, he has none?

I'm not purposely being dense, just getting worried.

Here's his bio. All his experience is on the college level. This doesn't get specific about the types of offenses he's coordinated, but if you look closely, you'll see hints (record rushing yards .... records for fewest interceptions, etc.)

Like I said, my opinion of him as a coach is based solely on the UTEP debacle. In other words, my scope is limited. Ken Hatfield and Parcells go way, way back and I'm sure Hatfield highly recommended him to Parcells.


----------

David Lee brings 27 years of coaching experience at the collegiate level to Dallas where he will serve as the club's offensive assistant, overseeing the team's quality control efforts. Included in his 27 years of experience are five as a head coach (1989-93 at Texas El Paso) and eight as an offensive coordinator. During his career, six of his former quarterbacks have been drafted or signed as free agents in the NFL following their collegiate careers.

For the last two years, Lee has served as the quarterbacks coach at the University of Arkansas, helping the Razorbacks to the 2002 Southeastern Conference Western Division title. This past season his work with Matt Jones saw the Arkansas quarterback throw for 1,413 yards and 16 touchdowns, the third highest season total in Arkansas history. Jones also set a school record for rushing yards by a quarterback with 600.

Before moving to Arkansas, Lee served seven seasons at Rice University. In his tenure at Rice as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, the Owls racked up six of the school's top rushing totals including a school-record 332.7 yards-per-game average in 1997. Rice ranked in the top 10 nationally in rushing three times during his stay. He also helped lead the Owls to a share of the Southwest Conference title in 1994 and their first win over Texas since 1965.

Lee was the head coach at Texas El Paso from 1989-93. He moved to UTEP after his first stint at the University of Arkansas, where he served as quarterbacks coach. Lee was part of Razorback teams that sported a 45-15-1 record and earned five straight bowl appearances. Included in that run was the 1986 season in which Arkansas quarterbacks threw just two interceptions (a SWC record) while helping the Hogs to a 10-2 record and an Orange Bowl appearance. Promoted to offensive coordinator in 1988, Lee helped engineer the Hogs' first Southwest Conference title in nine years with an offensive unit that committed just 13 turnovers in 11 games while featuring a pair of All-SWC sophomores, quarterback Quinn Grovey and fullback Barry Foster.

Lee began his coaching career at Tennessee-Martin (1975-76) where he tutored quarterbacks and receivers for two seasons. After spending one season at Vanderbilt (1977) as quarterbacks coach, Lee moved to Ole Miss (1978-82) where he was in charge of the Rebels' quarterbacks for five seasons, directing two record setting quarterbacks - Kent Austin and John Fourcade. In 1983, Lee was the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at New Mexico.

A three-year letterman at Vanderbilt, Lee served as team captain and was named the team's most valuable player in 1974 after quarterbacking the Commodores to a 7-3-2 record, including a 24-10 upset over fifth-ranked Florida. It was Vanderbilt's first win over the Gators in 15 years. Lee went on to lead the SEC in passing and guide his team to a 6-6 tie against Texas Tech in the Peach Bowl. Lee earned a bachelor's degree in history from Vanderbilt in 1975.

 

[Smith22]

I root for Romo in that I think its unfair that people hold it against him that he went undrafted, when he really had no right going undrafted. He shouldn't have gone undrafted. He is too good of a player, and talented. The GM's who passed him over in the draft were speaking more to his competition level than him as a player.

On Henson, I think both sides are ridiculous. The side that wanted the organization to hand Henson the starting job in the offseason is just as ridiculous as the side that labels him a bust after his first week of training camp practice. The ones who blame Parcells for Henson looking so terrible in the Bears game make me laugh as much the ones who proclaim Tony Romo to be the next Tom Brady.


I supported the trade that brought Henson here, and still do. However, he is a LONG TERM PROJECT. I would also pause before overstating Henson's "pedigree" before coming to the Cowboys. We don't know he would have been a Top 5 pick. We don't even know he would have been a first round pick. Andy Katzenmoyer at one time was going to be a Top 10 pick. He could have had a terrible year the following year. He never had to go through the Combine and draft process to have 32 NFL scouts pick him apart. A lot can change in the 4 months leading up to the draft, much less 2 years. Ask Kyle Orton. I will say that last year I didn't quite see the cannon arm everyone had attributed to him, and I have pretty firm confidence that it might have lead to his now well publicized throwing mechanics changes. Not saying its not strong enough to get the job done, but I wouldn't put it in the upper league of NFL arms.

Unfortunately, this whole Romo vs. Henson argument turns into such an antagonistic, one-ups-manship that you have to be either one or the other. it resembles "conservative vs. liberal" political arguments where both sides end up looking like complete idiots.

:bravo:

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[kartr]

I just can't understand why there are so many people on this board so ready to annoint Henson a failure. They jump at the chance to point out mistakes he has made.The man played baseball for 3 years and since coming back to football has been asked to completely change his throwing motion. Cut the man some slack. We should all be routing for him. If he does well then we have found our QB of the future for a third round pick. If he fails, be glad we didn't waste a first round pick on him. Is he the future? Noboby knows but we should at least give him a chance. I personally feel he should of played last year after we were eliminated from the playoffs. He has the pedigree to succeed only time will tell if he has everthing else. :bang2:

BTW - A lot of people forget Quincy couldn't even throw a spiral when he first got here. He learned to throw the proper way and would probably be still on the roster if he didn't have his head up his arse.

You seem to forget, Quincy was able to make up a lot of ground in his first year and was able to not only manage games, but win them to boot. It wasn't Quincy's fault he was saddled with a first time QB coach as a rookie, but Henson has a QB coach with a solid rep and still can't cut it. I got news for you, neither Manning or Warner throw the prettiest of passes, it's about your total game, not any one factor. Henson's a failure due to the fact he chose baseball over football. You couldn't really believe that hype about Henson being some sort of super man. I told everyone that he's a long-term project and a long shot at best. That's why Romo is outplaying him, he's a real football player and has played a lot more football and has a better feel for the game. That's only natural. That's also why Quincy caught on as quickly as he did;he played football for 3 consecutive years before coming IMMEDIATELY to the NFL.

 

[kartr]

Well no matter what you or we think Parcells has made the decision to play Bledsoe for now. And he's gone on record to wait until after the second preseason game to finish this summer's evaluation of the backups. If he doesn't think one of them can come in and do the job he'll bring someone else in. Hopefully one or both will rise to the occasion.

What would you rather have?

a) Bledsoe playing playoff caliber ball. Henson and Romo close enough you can't figure out which one to play backup vs emerg QB. Both looking good enough one will eventually beat Bledsoe out and become a franchise QB and the other good enough to make a trade for a high draft pick or be a great backup.

or b) Bledsoe sucks. Henson/Romo playing so poorly that we have to get a journeyman QB in here to back Bledsoe up or sub for him.

That's what some of you guys are asking for....b). If you really are pulling for Dallas then you want a) and not b).

If all you're doing is expressing an opinion that Bledsoe should be the starter yada then fine. But wishing for any of our QBs to be bad doesn't make any sense to me.

We don't have to wish for our QB's to be bad. They are. I just think we ought to have insurance for Bledsoe in case he falls apart completely or gets hurt. We clearly have one of the worst qb situations in the NFL. What's wrong with wanting your team to get every upgrade possible? Those that don't believe in Henson are not ani-Dallas, they just don't believe in fairy tales. They simply don't believe that a guy who hasn't played hardly any football in the last 5 years is the best available option. Is that really so hard to understand?

 

[kartr]

Henson is done, dud. He is not a dog so his pedigree as you put it means nothing. His star has burned out.
All that Carter could not throw a spiral junk is junk that Junk. If he could not throw a spiral he would not have ever played QB in High School not to mention College and make it thru the combines to get drafted.

You could have kept this stuff to yourself.

You said it true.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

"pedigree" is a term that should rarely be applied to pro football. show me where drew henson's dad was an NFL-calibre player, much less QB, and i'll buy into the pedigree deal. otherwise, drop it. it annoys me to no end.

I totally agree here ... nothing at all warrant the term "pedigree" be applied to Drew Henson ... that's what irritates me the most ... snap out of it ...

 

[kartr]

That's not true.

Many of us former Carter supporters had no problem supporting Henson, and still don't.

Personally I don't dislike Henson, I just feel that the Henson supporters have given him a stamp of approval without doing anything, whereas they were only too happy to see Quincy go and are in denial that he ever did anything good. Plus they never miss an opportunity to bash him, yet tell his supporters not to mention his name. They seem to feel that only those who agree with them you have a right to speak. They also seem to be happy that he is not on any other team. As long as he is not on this team, they should be happy, but apparently the only thing that will make them happy is if the worst of worst happens to Quincy career-wise. The only thing they fear worse than him coming back to this team is if he catches on somewhere else and does well. Usually, we wish former Cowboys well, whatever their endeavors, but for some reason Quincy brings out the worst in his detractors. I think that is more a reflection of their character, not his.

 

[kartr]

stats are for losers...just because the guy doesnt throw up the fantasy numbers you want to see, doesnt mean he isnt a good player

David

I don't believe you, Quincy won games, enough to make the playoffs, but because he didn't have the best stats you thought he was no good. Do you know what consistency means?

 

[kartr]

Nah. I don't care if he is 29 and proves he is worthy of starting. Check this out my man:

In 1969 Roger Staubach joined the Dallas Cowboys as a 27-year-old rookie, became the starting quarterback in his third season in 1971, and for the next nine seasons he led the Dallas attack. The Cowboys played in six NFC Championship Games, won four of them, and also won Super Bowls VI and XII during Staubach's career.

We waited 3 years for Staubach and he didn't start until he was 30 years old. Kinda puts things in a different perspective doesn't it?

Staubach was a football player, not a baseball-playing whatamacallit. Staubach won the Heisman in football, Henson has won a nothing. There's no comparison.