OMG Burnett Should be starting this season!

[BouncingCheese]

I don't think he's a prototype 3-4 OLB, but I think they were projecting that he could/would add 15 lbs. of muscle to get into the 6'3" 250-255 range .. which he never could.

His deficiencies in pass coverage are a little baffling. This is a smart guy who was a converted safety. I don't know what the deal is, other than maybe he's not a natural or instinctive football player.

I think that is the problem...

and to be honest, that was a knock on Bobby Carpenter as well before he was drafted.

 

[theogt]

I don't think he's a prototype 3-4 OLB, but I think they were projecting that he could/would add 15 lbs. of muscle to get into the 6'3" 250-255 range .. which he never could.

Nail on head.

His deficiencies in pass coverage are a little baffling. This is a smart guy who was a converted safety. I don't know what the deal is, other than maybe he's not a natural or instinctive football player.

I think it just has to do with getting his feet under him. Phillips immediately put him as a starting nickel and dime LB, so he obviously thinks highly of him. This is only his 3rd season and 2nd without injury. He's now playing a position that is more natural to him, so I think it'll stick. Even if he doesn't beat out Ayodele, he's still under a long-term contract and could contribute in the future. There's really no need for him to start immediately, so this is all just for kicks talk.

 

[BouncingCheese]

Nail on head.

I think it just has to do with getting his feet under him. Phillips immediately put him as a starting nickel and dime LB, so he obviously thinks highly of him. This is only his 3rd season and 2nd without injury. He's now playing a position that is more natural to him, so I think it'll stick. Even if he doesn't beat out Ayodele, he's still under a long-term contract and could contribute in the future. There's really no need for him to start immediately, so this is all just for kicks talk.

How many years does he have left on his contract?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I just think it's simple: It goes back to Burnett not being a Parcells prototype LB. We shouldn't have drafted a 235 pound LB in the first place considering Parcells wants 250-lb guys.

I'd almost guarantee that Burnett would be a much better fit as a 43 OLB. Imagine him versus Bradie in 2004 when Parcells tried to give Coakley's job to Bradie. Bradie failed miserably at it. I bet you Burnett wouldn't have.

Anyway... What we were debating again? If Burnett can't play, or if he was simply a poor fit for Parcells' system? I vote the latter.

One other thing, though: I get the sense that Wade will rotate these guys more than Parcells ever did. So I think Burnett and Carpenter will play more in the regular defense, even if they don't start, and not only in special packages like the nickel.

 

[theogt]

How many years does he have left on his contract?

Several, don't recall off-hand.

 

[Stautner]

My god, you're dense.

Good post - well thought out and presented - this puts you on top of the argument, hands down.

Next time try this:

PLEASSSSSSSE!

That will put your powers of reason beyond approach.

 

[Stautner]

Stop, his head will explode. Some people can't grasp that all WRs positions aren't the same and all linebacker positions aren't the same.

No. You're wrong. They're different positions that require different physical skill sets. This isn't that complex. I hope you can somehow manage to wrap your mind around it.

The thing you don't get is that they don't REQUIRE different skills - but there are different skills that are PREFERRED ....... not the same thing.

I will backtrack a little though - WR is probably not the best example since we may frequently use 3 WR's anyway, so in the event TO or Glenn got hurt we may well just keep the 3 that will play at their optimal spots.

I'll concede that position.

But LB is another matter, and as I said to begin with, IF Burnett were the better player and best equipped to handle James position, Phillips would have him start over James regardless of what the depth chart says ...... now tell me what it is that you are disagreeing with because this says nothing about differences in positions - it only talks about IF Burnett was better equipped to handle the position .......... Your argument doesn't even adress what was said.

I also noticed that you only picked out WR to discuss - you conveniently ignored the OT discussion where different skill sets are PREFERRED, yet we strayed from the depth chart when Flozell got hurt.

 

[theogt]

Good post - well thought out and presented - this puts you on top of the argument, hands down.

Next time try this:

PLEASSSSSSSE!

That will put your powers of reason beyond approach.

I have no doubt that I would ever be able to convince you that you're dense, but simply quoting your post should be sufficient to convince others.

 

[theogt]

The thing you don't get is that they don't REQUIRE different skills - but there are different skills that are PREFERRED ....... not the same thing.

LOL!

I will backtrack a little though - WR is probably not the best example since we may frequently use 3 WR's anyway, so in the event TO or Glenn got hurt we may well just keep the 3 that will play at their optimal spots.

I'll concede that position.

LOL!

But LB is another matter, and as I said to begin with, IF Burnett were the better player and best equipped to handle James position, Phillips would have him start over James regardless of what the depth chart says ...... now tell me what it is that you are disagreeing with because this says nothing about differences in positions - it only talks about IF Burnett was better equipped to handle the position .......... Your argument doesn't even adress what was said.

I also noticed that you only picked out WR to discuss - you conveniently ignored the OT discussion where different skill sets are PREFERRED, yet we strayed from the depth chart when Flozell got hurt.

If Burnett was better at the LILB position than James and Carpenter, would he start over James? Of course.

But he's not and that's partially because he's better suited for RILB. Why? They're different positions. And that's why he's playing RILB and not in competition with James for the LILB spot.

If he was better than Romo at QB, he'd probably start over Romo. That's a mind-bogglingly super-duper point you've made.

 

[28 Joker]

Phillips is going to use a variety of zone blitzes and play some cover 3 behind them. When Phillips brings both outside linebackers on a blitz or when Roy Williams blitzes, the inside linebackers will be responsible for covering the short zones or flats.

Burnett will use his speed and athleticism to get this job done. He won't be covering the deep middle or deep 1/3 like he was asked to do at times in the cover-2 Zimmer deployed. Also, he won't be reading a tightend and have to react to him in order to determine if he is supposed cover or blitz. He will know before the snap if he is covering or rushing.

Furthermore, Burnett will be protected by shading d-linemen, and Phillips will stack his inside linebackers to protect them. If Phillips creates the havok that I expect, look for Burnett to be in the backfield when he shoots a gap on blitzes. He will be a much more efficient pass rusher when the other team doesn't know he is coming.

Finally, speed, athleticism, and agility will be critical for the inside linebackers when they are covering the flats or blitzing. Burnett and Carpenter have the edge on the other two linebackers in these categories.

College 40 Times:

Burnett 4.61 SI.com2005
Carpenter 4.66 Columbus Dispatch
James 4.75 SI.com2003
Ayodele 4.87 SI.com2002

 

[Stautner]

LOL!

LOL!

If Burnett was better at the LILB position than James and Carpenter, would he start over James? Of course.

But he's not and that's partially because he's better suited for RILB. Why? They're different positions. And that's why he's playing RILB and not in competition with James for the LILB spot.

If he was better than Romo at QB, he'd probably start over Romo. That's a mind-bogglingly super-duper point you've made.

BINGO!

Did a light go on or what? That's what I said and that's what you have been fighting so hard to dispute.

I didn;t say Burnett was qualified or was the best player, just said IF he was ....... and your comback wasn't about positional differences it was about the "depth chart".

Still doesn't change the fact that it's idiotic to suggest that some players can't be interchangeable at certain positions - teams would have a hell of a time filling out the roster if there were no players capable of handling multiple spots.

Here's a case in point - I'm curious to see what you say about this:

Bobby Carpenter is considered to have the talent to play either OLB or ILB - VERY different positions, much more different than the two ILB positions.

Now how the hell could that be if players are ONLY restricted to whatever the piece of paper that shows a depth chart says?

 

[theogt]

BINGO!

Did a light go on or what? That's what I said and that's what you have been fighting so hard to dispute.

I didn;t say Burnett was qualified or was the best player, just said IF he was ....... and your comback wasn't about positional differences it was about the "depth chart".

And my point was that you're dense for thinking this is somehow helpful to the conversation.

Shocking, if Player X is better than Player Y, Player X will start!!!! Send this **** into ESPN, it's front page material!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111!111!!eleven!!

Still doesn't change the fact that it's idiotic to suggest that some players can't be interchangeable at certain positions - teams would have a hell of a time filling out the roster if there were no players capable of handling multiple spots.

Oh brother. Actually all players are completely interchangeable. TO could play quarterback if we needed him to. Is that at all desirable? No. Is that at all likely? No. Ditto for Burnett starting over James and Carpenter at LILB.

Here's a case in point - I'm curious to see what you say about this:

Bobby Carpenter is considered to have the talent to play either OLB or ILB - VERY different positions, much more different than the two ILB positions.

Now how the hell could that be if players are ONLY restricted to whatever a piece of paper listing a depth chart says?

Very different positions. So different that I've said from day one of drafting Carpenter (actually long before we drafted him) that he isn't suited for 3-4 OLB. The Chargers scouted him as an ILB. The Patriots scouted him as an ILB. Parcells said he would probably end up as an ILB. He played poorly at OLB. He's a 3-4 ILB now and forever.

 

[Stautner]

And my point was that you're dense for thinking this is somehow helpful to the conversation.

Shocking, if Player X is better than Player Y, Player X will start!!!! Send this **** into ESPN, it's front page material!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111!111!!eleven!!.

Hey, you are the one that has spent 2 days arguing against exactly that point, so if I'm dense then your idiocy must be off the charts.

You were the one that started the entire disagreement by suggesting that it wouldn't matter if Burnett was better than James, he was at a different spot on the depth chart so he can't take his job anyway ........

Oh brother. Actually all players are completely interchangeable. TO could play quarterback if we needed him to. Is that at all desirable? No. Is that at all likely? No. Ditto for Burnett starting over James and Carpenter at LILB.

You really treat TO playing QB as analogous to Burnett playing either ILB spot? Wow, you are way in left field.

I suppose Ware playing WSLB as opposed to SSLB would be the same as Leonard Davis playing WR in your eyes.

Very different positions. So different that I've said from day one of drafting Carpenter (actually long before we drafted him) that he isn't suited for 3-4 OLB. The Chargers scouted him as an ILB. The Patriots scouted him as an ILB. Parcells said he would probably end up as an ILB. He played poorly at OLB. He's a 3-4 ILB now and forever.

Geez, I wonder why Bill ever USED him at OLB considering how it was so obvious that he had absolutely no skills for the position.

After all, big, fast and strong are pretty poor traits for an OLB ........

OF course, the reality is that his "skill set" translated well to either position and he was scouted as a hybrid who could end up either inside or out depending on which his instincts and nature (not physical skills) were best suited for, but to admit that truth wouldn't work for you, so you decided to claim your personal view of him applied to everyone.

Here's another analogy - the very topic of conversation - Kevin Burnett - has been used a a variety of positions, backing up both ILB and OLB since he has been in Dallas.

What about James - 2 years as an OLB and he moved to ILB - the point being that being listed as one does not prohibit a change to the other. The differenct in "skill sets" didn't prevent James from changing LB spots ....... did it?


BUT LETS MOVE ON:

How do you explain Mike Alstott sometimes playing RB when he is on the depth chart at FB. Surely you would agree that FB and RB have different PREFERRED "skill sets"?

What about the OT situation we have discussed where Dallas strayed from the depth chart despite obviously different PREFERRED "skill sets" ...... you are doing a great job avoiding that one.

HERE'S A QUESTION I SHOULD HAVE ASKED BEFORE:

Tell me exactly what the REQUIRED "skill sets" are for the two ILBer spots ........ (and let's see if you can be fair or if you are going to compare it to the difference between CB and NT ...).

 

[Stautner]

WAIT! HOLD THE PRESSES ogt ...... I've got 2 new questions for you!

1. Where is the depth chart you are talking about? The Cowboys website lumps ALL LB's together on the depth chart - no separation between the two ILBer spots and not even a pecking order at this point - so I'm wondering where your info is coming from that Burnett is restricted to being Ayodele's backup ............

2. Who, according to your mysterious info, is DeMarcus Ware's backup?

Here's why I ask: presumably Ellis and Spencer are on one side, James and Carpenter at one ILB spot, Ayodele and Burnett at the other ....... who does that leave to backup Ware? Junior Glympf? Oliver Hoyte (ILB isn't he?)? John Saldi or the remaining no-name guys that haven't even made the team and most of whom wont?

Here's the point - if Ware destroyed his knees and we needed a long term replacement do you really think Glympf, Hoyte, Saldi or some guy we have never heard of would be our solution, or do you think we might move someone (Carp/Spencer?) into that spot so we could get our best players on the field?

 

[theogt]

Dude, you have serious problems. I sugggest therapy.

 

[Stautner]

Dude, you have serious problems. I sugggest therapy.

Another one of your baseless, substanceless comments meant to avoid the truth and how you have been spewing BS.

Come on answer the questions:

1. Where is the depth chart you are consulting? The Cowboys haven't issued it .......

2. Who, by your mysterious depth chart, is Ware's backup? And let me remind you that you can't say Ellis, Spencer, Capenter or Burnett, because according to you they are bound to other spots on the depth chart and can't make a move because of the different "skill set" requirements.

3. How do you explain ALL the players in the NFL that from time to time - and some frequently - play positions other than the one listed on the depth chart?

4. How do you explain that despite your claim that Burnett only possesses the "skill set" for one LB spot, he has been tried and shuffled in and out of most of the LB spots in Dallas at one point or another?


GOT ANYTHING WITTY (in your mind at least), or will you come up with another doozy response like having a player attempt to play 2 different LB spots is like having Larry Allen as a placekicker ....... that fits right with your suggestion that it's like TO playing QB doesn't it?

 

[Vintage]

Another one of your baseless, substanceless comments meant to avoid the truth and how you have been spewing BS.

Come on answer the questions:

1. Where is the depth chart you are consulting? The Cowboys haven't issued it .......

2. Who, by your mysterious depth chart, is Ware's backup? And let me remind you that you can't say Ellis, Spencer, Capenter or Burnett, because according to you they are bound to other spots on the depth chart and can't make a move because of the different "skill set" requirements.

3. How do you explain ALL the players in the NFL that from time to time - and some frequently - play positions other than the one listed on the depth chart?

4. How do you explain that despite your claim that Burnett only possesses the "skill set" for one LB spot, he has been tried and shuffled in and out of most of the LB spots in Dallas at one point or another?


GOT ANYTHING WITTY (in your mind at least), or will you come up with another doozy response like having a player attempt to play 2 different LB spots is like having Larry Allen as a placekicker ....... that fits right with your suggestion that it's like TO playing QB doesn't it?

Correct me if I am wrong, but there must be some sort of depth chart Wade is working on.

Because Ellis has been named starter and Spencer is backing him up (even though Spencer has been starting in OTAs because of Ellis' injury)

And Burnett replaced Ayodele inside; not Carpenter.

So Wade must be operating on something....

 

[Stautner]

Correct me if I am wrong, but there must be some sort of depth chart Wade is working on.

Because Ellis has been named starter and Spencer is backing him up (even though Spencer has been starting in OTAs because of Ellis' injury)

And Burnett replaced Ayodele inside; not Carpenter.

So Wade must be operating on something....

I'm sure there is a depth chart Wade is working on, but do you think he has shown it to ogt and not the rest of the world?

And even so, it's a work in progress - do you really think it's set in stone like a binding legal contract that the coach can't vary from.

And even so, despite publically announcing Ellis will start (if healthy) show me where he has made that announcement at all the other positions, and further, show me where he has set the exact depth charts with all the backups at all spots, and further show me where he has said there will be no movement in the depth chart ever.

And even so - I'm sure you've seen these depth charts before - it isn't uncommon to see a guy backup multiple positions, despite ogt's claim that this can't be done because of the different "skill sets".

And even so, Ellis being the starter doesn't mean Spencer is restricted from ever starting or from ever switching LB spots if there is a problem with Ware ...... does it.

BE REALISTIC - DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT:

* ogt is privvy to a depth chart no one else is ......?

* or that the depth chart is unbending and unwavering .........?

* Or that LBer's cannot and never shuffle between the different LB spots ....... ?

* Or that, as ogt would have you believe, Burnett playing James LB position would be like TO playing QB ....... ?

 

[Vintage]

I'm sure there is a depth chart Wade is working on, but do you think he has shown it to ogt and not the rest of the world?

Uhh....yeah, actually. Maybe its not complete, but he did tell us what kind of depth chart he is shaping it into by having Burnett start in place while Ayodele was injured. That seems like Wade is having Burnett back up Ayodele, at least for the time being.

And even so, it's a work in progress - do you really think it's set in stone like a binding legal contract that the coach can't vary from.

No. Nor did I say that. I can't tell you what the future is. But what I can tell you is that Burnett started in front of Ayodele while Ayodele was out. Meaning, for the time being, Burnett is the backup WILB.

And even so, despite publically announcing Ellis will start (if healthy) show me where he has made that announcement at all the other positions, and further, show me where he has set the exact depth charts with all the backups at all spots, and further show me where he has said there will be no movement in the depth chart ever.

I am pretty sure its set in stone Ware is the starting WOLB. And I am pretty sure its set in stone that Spencer is the backup SOLB.

And as of now, based on OTA's, Burnett is the WILB backup to Ayodele. And I have NOT claimed that its set in stone.

I can keep repeating the last part, if you'd like. Name me the font color, styling, font type, etc, if you wish....I'd be more than happy to oblige.

And even so - I'm sure you've seen these depth charts before - it isn't uncommon to see a guy backup multiple positions, despite ogt's claim that this can't be done because of the different "skill sets".

My GUESS is that Burnett offers interesting WILB characteristics (ie, flowing to the ball, moving around traffic) and lacks some SILB (size, strength) which is why Wade put him at WILB (at least, for OTA's/mini camp). Whereas Carpenter has more size, more strength, and might be able to take on blockers better than Burnett (which might fit in better with a SILB).

And even so, Ellis being the starter doesn't mean Spencer is restricted from ever starting or from ever switching LB spots if there is a problem with Ware ...... does it.

No. Nor did I say it did. I just said, as of now, that.....nevermind. Forget it.

BE REALISTIC - DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT:

* ogt is privvy to a depth chart no one else is ......?

My guess is that ogt took a look at what was happening in Minicamps/OTAs and concluded Wade is looking at doing this.

Which is fair to guess...

 

[Frozen700]

WAIT! HOLD THE PRESSES ogt ...... I've got 2 new questions for you!

1. Where is the depth chart you are talking about? The Cowboys website lumps ALL LB's together on the depth chart - no separation between the two ILBer spots and not even a pecking order at this point - so I'm wondering where your info is coming from that Burnett is restricted to being Ayodele's backup ............

2. Who, according to your mysterious info, is DeMarcus Ware's backup?

Here's why I ask: presumably Ellis and Spencer are on one side, James and Carpenter at one ILB spot, Ayodele and Burnett at the other ....... who does that leave to backup Ware? Junior Glympf? Oliver Hoyte (ILB isn't he?)? John Saldi or the remaining no-name guys that haven't even made the team and most of whom wont?

Here's the point - if Ware destroyed his knees and we needed a long term replacement do you really think Glympf, Hoyte, Saldi or some guy we have never heard of would be our solution, or do you think we might move someone (Carp/Spencer?) into that spot so we could get our best players on the field?

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this argument you 2 are having is funny as hell....but damn i never seen the OGT lose an argument.... you may have him here