Our last 2nd round hit was Sean Lee

[SDCowboy]

That's depressing.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

We are a good drafting team, especially in the first round and recently, but no one does better at it than the Patriots.

And they do it by hitting on a lot of mid to later round guys and note they rarely have a top of a round pick either. I mean look at their OL which is pretty damn good:

Shaq Mason - 4th round
Marcus Cannon - 5th round
Joe Thuney - 3rd round
David Andrews - UDFA

Nate Solder was a first round pick.

No team seems to hit on more later round picks than the Pats. They seem to churn their roster and never miss a beat largely because of their drafts and UDFAs. Malcolm Butler was a UDFA.

They are the kings of working the draft and turning other teams' cast offs into productive players. It's a testament to their front office and Belichick.

We seem to finally be starting to hit on more of our later round picks, especially this year with Prescott, Collins and Brown. And I have high hopes for Tapper if healthy.

I Don't think you have actually analyzed the Patriots drafting performance. Their fans are not pleased. A lot of misses.

 

[Proximo]

That's depressing.

There's not much about our recent drafting that's been depressing, but we'll certainly find something here at CZ.

And I when I say recent, I don't just mean just last year.

We have absolutely become one of the best drafting teams in the league over the last several seasons.

It's really not even debatable.

 

[Idgit]

There's not much about our recent drafting that's been depressing, but we'll certainly find something here at CZ.

And I when I say recent, I don't just mean just last year.

We have absolutely become one of the best drafting teams in the league over the last several seasons.

It's really not even debatable.

It hasn't been for seasons, yet we somehow find a way to debate it. And by 'debate' I mean 'complain about' it.

That said, if there's an area to complain about, it actually is our recent 2nd round performance. It's a fairly bad string there all things considered. I actually liked a lot of those players when we picked them. Escobar and Lawrence, in particular.

 

[Sydla]

I Don't think you have actually analyzed the Patriots drafting performance. Their fans are not pleased. A lot of misses.

Their fans are idiots then. How do they think they've been able to stay on the run they have been on? I mean Brady is awesome but he still needs a competent team around him. They certainly haven't built this decades long run just on free agency.

They may not have the eye popping Pro Bowlers from their drafts, and they have had some misses (Easley was a big one) but no one seems to find more productive players in the mid to later rounds than the Pats.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

I think this is a Jerry thing and not as much a McClay thing.

He has input in the 1st round obviously, but it's not his big gamble round and he can be over-ridden (see manziel).
The 2nd round is his designated gamble/go-for-the-fence round.
And it's too early to do that, imo.

Good take.

I think there is a lot of truth to this. Jerry consistently goes on record about being willing to take risks and with the different ways teams look at players there is usually a first-round type talent sitting in the second round - and usually for good reason. Looking at it from a long-term perspective like this is beneficial when you can see that it's become an obvious hole in the team's drafting strategy.

At the same time, this team has hit on how many late-round picks and UFA? So you have to take the good with the bad. Given how many late-round players we've hit on, it's probably safe to say they are having success finding guys for their system. If they would stay true to form in the second round instead of trying to be the smartest guy in the room, they'd probably have more hits there, too.

 

[Western]

Factor this:
The last Cowboy 2nd round pick that was a defensive player, who was worth pick in terms of play-making and game-changing ability was Darren Woodson in 1992 (more valuable than Darrin Smith who was drafted in 1993).
24 years ago.

Now that is the territory of Cleveland Brown draft futility.
Yikes.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

I Don't think you have actually analyzed the Patriots drafting performance. Their fans are not pleased. A lot of misses.

You can play this kind of game with every team. Every team has misses. It's a hard thing to master.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

Factor this:
The last Cowboy 2nd round pick that was a defensive player, who was worth pick in terms of play-making and game-changing ability was Darren Woodson in 1992 (more valuable than Darrin Smith who was drafted in 1993).
24 years ago.

Now that is the territory of Cleveland Brown draft futility.
Yikes.

Sean Lee wonders what you're talking about.

 

[Western]

Sean Lee wonders what you're talking about.

Woodson was more reliable, durable, & more worthy of a 2nd pick than Lee.

 

[big dog cowboy]

2011: Bruce Carter
2012: Traded for Mo
2013: Gavin Escobar
2014: DeMarcus Lawrence
2015: Randy Gregory
2016: Jaylon Smith

That shouldn't be big news to anyone. We also know that is Jerry's gamble pick each year.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Their fans are idiots then. How do they think they've been able to stay on the run they have been on? I mean Brady is awesome but he still needs a competent team around him. They certainly haven't built this decades long run just on free agency.

They may not have the eye popping Pro Bowlers from their drafts, and they have had some misses (Easley was a big one) but no one seems to find more productive players in the mid to later rounds than the Pats.

They play in a horrific division this entire time. So yes having the greatest coach and arguably greatest qb ever has largely been enough.

Remember a few years ago when Brady himself was sniping at the front office for his lack of weapons? Go back and look at their drafts. They (Thankfully) have had a ton of misses with premium picks.

 

[perrykemp]

Sean Lee wonders what you're talking about.

Until this year, in a league where availability is essential, Sean Lee could never really be counted on to be available.

It took until his 7th year in the NFL, at age 30, for Lee to finally have an entirely healthy season where he was fully available.

In Lee's career, he has started 61 out of a possible 112 games -- exactly 50%.

Nice player.. he played AWESOME this year... however, I don't think he is an easy slam dunk great value for where he was drafted in the 2nd round.

 

[Sydla]

They play in a horrific division this entire time. So yes having the greatest coach and arguably greatest qb ever has largely been enough.

Remember a few years ago when Brady himself was sniping at the front office for his lack of weapons? Go back and look at their drafts. They (Thankfully) have had a ton of misses with premium picks.

When you are dominating in the playoffs and winning SBs, the weakness of the division really starts to become less of a factor. It would make sense if they were getting bounced early in the playoffs every year while coming off big regular seasons.

They have been in the AFC Title game 11 times out of the last 16 years. To do that, you need more than just Brady and Belichick. They are masters at roster construction.

 

[perrykemp]

They play in a horrific division this entire time. /QUOTE]

That division has been "horrific" partly because the Patriots have been the 600lb gorilla constantly beating down on all of them.

 

[Verdict]

2011: Bruce Carter
2012: Traded for Mo
2013: Gavin Escobar
2014: DeMarcus Lawrence
2015: Randy Gregory
2016: Jaylon Smith

I hope Jaylon turns it around.

That's one way to look at it. Another way of looking at it is:

2010: Lee Is a home run
2011: Bruce Carter--serviceable player who played out his contract with us, and played in the NFL after he departed from the team
2012: MO Trade up: Mo isnt an all pro but he stuck for 5 years on the team and was a solid player for most of the time he was healthy
2013: Gavin Escobar-- stuck on the roster his entire rookie contract--but based on his production we will call that one a mostly bust
2014: DeMarcus Lawrence: He hasn't been a cut and has performed ok at some times. Talent seems ok, but health has not.
2015: Randy Gregory. Total Miss. Bust. End of Story.
2016: Jaylon Smith: Redshirt rookie year. Too early to tell on this pick.

Really the only true outright bust is Gregory and that's probably not based on ability but the fact that he is a knuckle head. Gavin Escobar is probably also a bust even though he has made it through his entire rookie contract but I could see him sticking in the NFL for some time provided that they don't ask him to block.

I'm not sure why they didn't trade Escobar. I am also not sure why Escobar still can't block at all after sever years in an NFL weight training program. I guess he just has the wrong body type. They really drafted a player that they really didn't use at all.

 

[Verdict]

It hasn't been for seasons, yet we somehow find a way to debate it. And by 'debate' I mean 'complain about' it.

That said, if there's an area to complain about, it actually is our recent 2nd round performance. It's a fairly bad string there all things considered. I actually liked a lot of those players when we picked them. Escobar and Lawrence, in particular.

I was surprised at the Escobar pick. I didn't see it coming. It made some sense after we heard the team's reasoning, but they never seemed to go with a two tight end set that includedEscobar.

I wasn't against Lawrence per se, but I was against giving up two picks to get him. In order to justify giving up two picks to get a player that player should play at a level that is at least one full draft round higher than the highest round pick used to get him. So Tank should be playing like a mid first round pick to justify the trade up and he has played more like a 3rd or 4th round player.

 

[DFWJC]

That's one way to look at it. Another way of looking at it is:

2010: Lee Is a home run
2011: Bruce Carter--serviceable player who played out his contract with us, and played in the NFL after he departed from the team
2012: MO Trade up: Mo isnt an all pro but he stuck for 5 years on the team and was a solid player for most of the time he was healthy
2013: Gavin Escobar-- stuck on the roster his entire rookie contract--but based on his production we will call that one a mostly bust
2014: DeMarcus Lawrence: He hasn't been a cut and has performed ok at some times. Talent seems ok, but health has not.
2015: Randy Gregory. Total Miss. Bust. End of Story.
2016: Jaylon Smith: Redshirt rookie year. Too early to tell on this pick.

Really the only true outright bust is Gregory and that's probably not based on ability but the fact that he is a knuckle head. Gavin Escobar is probably also a bust even though he has made it through his entire rookie contract but I could see him sticking in the NFL for some time provided that they don't ask him to block.

I'm not sure why they didn't trade Escobar. I am also not sure why Escobar still can't block at all after sever years in an NFL weight training program. I guess he just has the wrong body type. They really drafted a player that they really didn't use at all.

You're being very kind

 

[Toruk_Makto]

That division has been "horrific" partly because the Patriots have been the 600lb gorilla constantly beating down on all of them.

The pats being great stopped the rest of the division from drafting well and finding franchise quarterbacks?

That kept the other teams from making good hires and sticking out rebuilds?

That forced the other general managers and ownership groups to be incompetent?

 

[perrykemp]

The pats being great stopped the rest of the division from drafting well and finding franchise quarterbacks?

That kept the other teams from making good hires and sticking out rebuilds?

That forced the other general managers and ownership groups to be incompetent?

Yes, in part.