Pacman cloud

[Brandon]

I didnt see ferguson as expensive or risky in any way shape or form.

and he is currently the leader on a defense in miami that is better against the run than we are and he has twice as many tackles as tank johnson. And tank is supposedly playing in a scheme where he will make plays for a loss or create sacks. yet he never does neither.

I am just saying with the running games in this divsion i would have kept ferguson at all costs for this season. then tank could rotate in on passing situations and make us even deeper. I firmly believe we would be better against the run if fergy was the inside guy.

I love how you completely ignored Ratliff, the guy who replaced Ferguson, who is also having a better season than him.

 

[Boysboy]

Parcells had been restructuring and rebuilding this team for 3 years when He had owens put on him. what was he going to do? Walk away from something he had been building all that time. Jerry has spoken candidly many times about how he did and didnt do some stuff that bill wanted him to and that bill had to do the same for him.

parcells is impatient, but most of the time his re-action to it is to improve the situation in a well thought out manner with the long term being in the mindset. Caring about his own legacy is a talking point created by some of the local geniuses here who like to make excuses for some of the players poor play and putting it on bill.

Well-either way, my biggest fear about our post-Parcells era is if it'll follow in the same path after he bolted his other 3 previous teams...

1) He bolted the Giants late in the offseason, their only emergency guy was Ray Handley, and he subsequently lost the locker room and was fired after 2 years.

2) He threw a hissy fit before the Pats Super Bowl w/ Green Bay, and he subsequently bolted them...their best emergency guy was "player friendly" coach Pete Carroll. He got off to a hot start b/c of his laxed coaching philosophies the players were relieved to have, but ended up losing control of his team over the long haul. Got fired after 3 seasons.

3) He bolted the Jets after 2 years, left them with $20m of salary cap headaches, and they never recovered outside of 1 decent season under Herman "inspirational friendly guy with tons of flaws" Edwards.

Again-blame Jerry all you want, and credit Parcells all you want, but I hope we don't get pinched with that post-Parcells curse this year. Even Giants fans warned us.

 

[Boysboy]

I didnt see ferguson as expensive or risky in any way shape or form.

and he is currently the leader on a defense in miami that is better against the run than we are and he has twice as many tackles as tank johnson. And tank is supposedly playing in a scheme where he will make plays for a loss or create sacks. yet he never does neither.

I am just saying with the running games in this divsion i would have kept ferguson at all costs for this season. then tank could rotate in on passing situations and make us even deeper. I firmly believe we would be better against the run if fergy was the inside guy.

Like I said-it really bumbed me when we let him go, and my heart was in my throat when he went down in our '07 opener against the Giants.

But especially with a number of other guys we had to sign and the salary cap space dwindling, as much as I hate to say it, it ended up making sense to trade him. I wish the timing WASN'T like this, but it is what it is.

 

[theebs]

Well-either way, my biggest fear about our post-Parcells era is if it'll follow in the same path after he bolted his other 3 previous teams...

1) He bolted the Giants late in the offseason, their only emergency guy was Ray Handley, and he subsequently lost the locker room and was fired after 2 years.

2) He threw a hissy fit before the Pats Super Bowl w/ Green Bay, and he subsequently bolted them...their best emergency guy was "player friendly" coach Pete Carroll. He got off to a hot start b/c of his laxed coaching philosophies the players were relieved to have, but ended up losing control of his team over the long haul. Got fired after 3 seasons.

3) He bolted the Jets after 2 years, left them with $20m of salary cap headaches, and they never recovered outside of 1 decent season under Herman "inspirational friendly guy with tons of flaws" Edwards.

Again-blame Jerry all you want, and credit Parcells all you want, but I hope we don't get pinched with that post-Parcells curse this year. Even Giants fans warned us.

I fear the same thing. I give him a pass on leaving the giants though. He was very worried about his health as was his family. I mean you cant blame the guy for walking away when he needs heart surgery. Belichick maybe could have been hired as the HC in ny had parcells known earlier, who knows.

and as simms has said many times, when you get players complaining about how tough the coach is, it is probably a sign that you need tougher players and not a softer coach. When reeves came in he had some of that team still in place and they started winning immediately.

I do disagree with the jets take though. that was a very talented team that Al groh just couldnt get going and Herm Edwards, well I feel the same way as you about him. I think he has a big bag of nothing.

 

[Boysboy]

I fear the same thing. I give him a pass on leaving the giants though. He was very worried about his health as was his family. I mean you cant blame the guy for walking away when he needs heart surgery. Belichick maybe could have been hired as the HC in ny had parcells known earlier, who knows.

and as simms has said many times, when you get players complaining about how tough the coach is, it is probably a sign that you need tougher players and not a softer coach. When reeves came in he had some of that team still in place and they started winning immediately.

I do disagree with the jets take though. that was a very talented team that Al groh just couldnt get going and Herm Edwards, well I feel the same way as you about him. I think he has a big bag of nothing.

I was asking Giants fans on their board about Tuna's tenure there-they said that he wanted to bolt in '87 or '88, but Giants brass made sure it didn't happen. They all but said as well they didn't buy his "health problems" as well. They DO love and respect the guy b/c he did alot for that organization(and for that matter too, despite Belichick's tainted image now, they still command alot of respect for him too), but they still admit he's an ***.

Anyhow, about your point on the team needing *stronger* players, that's what I've been saying all along. Forget Owens, Tank, and Pacman-I've been questioning the mentality of this team as a WHOLE for quite a while now. Take Bradie James, for example. I really question his leadership abilities. Remember when Jon Kitna made snide comments about him, before their game with the Lions last year, instead of using his comments as BB material to fire his team up in house, he goes out to the media and starts talking trash himself. If anything, all it did was egg on Newman to talk more trash, give the Lions BB material of their own, and cause our team to lose focus.

Ultimately, hard or soft coach, there's really nothing ANY coach can do with weak-minded players. Look at the Giants last year-when they got rid of Luke "penalty machine" Pettigout, they went from one of the most penalized teams to one of the least. Pettigout's absense was no coincidence.

 

[Spectre]

Your not alone.

I dont put winning over winning at all costs. Id rather lose with good people than win with criminals and jerks in general.

In 2005 you couldnt find one player to make a beef with. We had a good young developing team and even the people who hate the cowboys had nothing but praise for the way the organization was being handled and the team assembled.

Jerry's Impatience has brought us Owens, Johnson and Jones.

I personally would send all 3 back to where they come from happily, even if it meant losing a few more games. Particularly Jones. My opinion hasnt wavered on the guy, I dont think he belongs in the league. He is trouble and he will always be in trouble.

It really is a downer for me having to go and root for this team with those 3 guys.

Jerry severely altered the perception and the makeup of the team. He is obsessed with stars and the spotlight. I have said it many times, I never will understand Jerry as long as I live but I am forced to tolerate him, as much as I cant stand him.

From the happenings of the last few days I fear a tough game sunday, one that if we lose could force the wheels to come off this thing. Wade phillips showed he can not handle what Jerry has forced on him and if times get tough I think the players will lose complete faith in the guy. I hope not, but this seems like a season destined to end in disaster.

The last 2.5 weeks have been ridiculous IMO. All owens all the time and now all pacman all the time. I just dont see how that is good for a team in anyway.

flame away.

Thank you.
It's feels nice to know I'm not alone in my frustration with Jerry and many fans' 'win at all costs' approach. I too have lost a lot of respect for Jerry Jones because of these signings and don't think they have even improved the team any more than some well chosen draft picks could have. But they have cast a cloud of negativity over the organization and I won't enjoy a championship with them any where near as much as I would without them.

 

[theebs]

I was asking Giants fans on their board about Tuna's tenure there-they said that he wanted to bolt in '87 or '88, but Giants brass made sure it didn't happen. They all but said as well they didn't buy his "health problems" as well. They DO love and respect the guy b/c he did alot for that organization(and for that matter too, despite Belichick's tainted image now, they still command alot of respect for him too), but they still admit he's an ***.

Anyhow, about your point on the team needing *stronger* players, that's what I've been saying all along. Forget Owens, Tank, and Pacman-I've been questioning the mentality of this team as a WHOLE for quite a while now. Take Bradie James, for example. I really question his leadership abilities. Remember when Jon Kitna made snide comments about him, before their game with the Lions last year, instead of using his comments as BB material to fire his team up in house, he goes out to the media and starts talking trash himself. If anything, all it did was egg on Newman to talk more trash, give the Lions BB material of their own, and cause our team to lose focus.

Ultimately, hard or soft coach, there's really nothing ANY coach can do with weak-minded players. Look at the Giants last year-when they got rid of Luke "penalty machine" Pettigout, they went from one of the most penalized teams to one of the least. Pettigout's absense was no coincidence.

Giants fans can say what they want. There was a lot of talk about him going to atlanta around those times because he would have been gm and coach.

but, he had heart surgery and had to get away for awhile. I mean you really cant argue or complain about that. the timing was bad, especially because Handley was going to leave coaching that year and didnt even want to be in the league anymore!!! he felt obligated to stay so he did!!!

 

[xWraithx]

Your not alone.

I dont put winning over winning at all costs. Id rather lose with good people than win with criminals and jerks in general.

In 2005 you couldnt find one player to make a beef with. We had a good young developing team and even the people who hate the cowboys had nothing but praise for the way the organization was being handled and the team assembled.

Jerry's Impatience has brought us Owens, Johnson and Jones.

I personally would send all 3 back to where they come from happily, even if it meant losing a few more games. Particularly Jones. My opinion hasnt wavered on the guy, I dont think he belongs in the league. He is trouble and he will always be in trouble.

It really is a downer for me having to go and root for this team with those 3 guys.

Jerry severely altered the perception and the makeup of the team. He is obsessed with stars and the spotlight. I have said it many times, I never will understand Jerry as long as I live but I am forced to tolerate him, as much as I cant stand him.

From the happenings of the last few days I fear a tough game sunday, one that if we lose could force the wheels to come off this thing. Wade phillips showed he can not handle what Jerry has forced on him and if times get tough I think the players will lose complete faith in the guy. I hope not, but this seems like a season destined to end in disaster.

The last 2.5 weeks have been ridiculous IMO. All owens all the time and now all pacman all the time. I just dont see how that is good for a team in anyway.

flame away.

:laugh2:

Jerry Jones, Terrell Owens, Tank Johnson, Adam Jones, Jason Witten, Tony Romo, Demarcus Ware, Terence Newman, and Marion Barber don't give a damn about you or what you think.

 

[Idgit]

Your not alone.

I dont put winning over winning at all costs. Id rather lose with good people than win with criminals and jerks in general.

In 2005 you couldnt find one player to make a beef with. We had a good young developing team and even the people who hate the cowboys had nothing but praise for the way the organization was being handled and the team assembled.

Jerry's Impatience has brought us Owens, Johnson and Jones.

I personally would send all 3 back to where they come from happily, even if it meant losing a few more games. Particularly Jones. My opinion hasnt wavered on the guy, I dont think he belongs in the league. He is trouble and he will always be in trouble.

It really is a downer for me having to go and root for this team with those 3 guys.

Jerry severely altered the perception and the makeup of the team. He is obsessed with stars and the spotlight. I have said it many times, I never will understand Jerry as long as I live but I am forced to tolerate him, as much as I cant stand him.

From the happenings of the last few days I fear a tough game sunday, one that if we lose could force the wheels to come off this thing. Wade phillips showed he can not handle what Jerry has forced on him and if times get tough I think the players will lose complete faith in the guy. I hope not, but this seems like a season destined to end in disaster.

The last 2.5 weeks have been ridiculous IMO. All owens all the time and now all pacman all the time. I just dont see how that is good for a team in anyway.

flame away.

I'm proud of the organization for putting support systems in place to help talented and troubled players like Tank and Pacman. Owens I don't like b/c of his temperament, but he doesn't belong in the same class as the other two. Tank, by all accounts, has been a model player, and there were legitimate reasons to believe the negative influences in his life were eliminated.

But I resent the implication that the team is diminished b/c they try to help their players. Talent is the only thing that can get you to the NFL, but not all teams take care of their talent the way the Cowboys do. If that efficiency lets them take risks other teams don't, so much the better. It's not like the team has a recent history of bringing people on board and letting them continue to behave badly once they get here.

I don't see why any fan would be disappointed to see a team that actually helps people get their lives in order.

 

[yazzmode621]

I don't see why any fan would be disappointed to see a team that actually helps people get their lives in order.

The thing is, some of you Cowboys fans are trying to twist things up. Jerry Jones does not give a **** what happens to Pacman, or any other "troubled" player that he signs. He only does what he can do make sure that, as long as they're Cowboys, they don't get into trouble.

I keep reading about how Pacman has a "support system" in Dallas and how they're helping him in straightenting up his life. It sounds pretty good, but it doesn't seem to be true.

The only thing that I've seen so far about this supposd "support sytstem" is that Jones, using his own money, has hired a group of 4 "bodyguards" who are assigned to "protect" Pacman 24/7, when in reality it is a group of well paid, off-duty police offers being paid by Jones to babysit Pacman and make sure he doesn't get into any kind of trouble...and they still are unable to do that.

Jerry Jones doesn't give a **** about these guys once they leave the Cowboys. How did the Cowboys "support system" work for Leon Lett? Or was it Nate Newton (or both)? Quincy Carter? Or the many other former "troubled" Cowboys players that have gone on to live their lives as normal, law abiding citizens?

 

[Spectre]

:laugh2:

Jerry Jones, Terrell Owens, Tank Johnson, Adam Jones, Jason Witten, Tony Romo, Demarcus Ware, Terence Newman, and Marion Barber don't give a damn about you or what you think.

Batman doesn't care what you think.

 

[AmishCowboy]

Even Tom Landry wasn't too proud to put up with Duane Thomas. It's all about winning.

Plus Hollywood Henderson's act.

 

[AmishCowboy]

Put me down as win at all costs.....I dont care if they act like a Haley...etc....Let the NFL brass punish these players.

Jimmy Genius followed that motto.....In College and then with Dallas....as long as you play well on Gameday.....then I could care less what you do off the field or in the locker room...

These players are not idols of mine and I didnt raise my kids to look up to these players.......and expect these players to be role models....

I would be a hyprocrite if I said anything different.......seeing how I cheered and loved those SB teams of the 90's full well knowing that we had some serious trouble makers on that team.

I dont approve illegal activities by these players but if its good enough for the NFL and the Dallas Cowboys to let these type of players play........then whom am I to judge

I get more upset when teams cheat and players take enhancing drugs that alter the playing field....

Here's the real post of the Day!. Remember, this is Professional Football. we are not trying to Mold people here like College Football, it all about winning. This is a Business.

 

[VACowboy]

Win at all cost except cheating...That's how I look at it. poeple getting crazy about Pacman need to relax.

It's not cool with me that Dallas is seen as the cesspool of the league by any and everyone who doesn't wear a star on his chest. I don't give a crap that there was no incident report filed and no arrest made or whatever. What bothers me is that Pacman was there. He shouldn't have been. Period. And if Jerry ok'd Pacman's presence at a late night celebrity party--that's even worse.

The Dallas Cowboys organization has become the laughingstock of the league, and that kills me.

 

[Boysboy]

It's not cool with me that Dallas is seen as the cesspool of the league by any and everyone who doesn't wear a star on his chest. I don't give a crap that there was no incident report filed and no arrest made or whatever. What bothers me is that Pacman was there. He shouldn't have been. Period. And if Jerry ok'd Pacman's presence at a late night celebrity party--that's even worse.

The Dallas Cowboys organization has become the laughingstock of the league, and that kills me.

Yes-when only 2 other teams other than us that haven't won a playoff game over a decade are KC and Detroit, it makes us THE laughing stock of the league.

Other teams like Indy have a number of troubled players, but b/c they've won Super Bowls(or for that matter, consistently in the playoffs everywhere), noone gives 2 *****'s about them.

 

[jobberone]

duane thomas ain't nothing but a racist punk who had a good year running the ball.

maurice clarett kinda punk.

Jeez Louise! Give me a break. Were you even around when he played?

 

[zrinkill]

Michael Irvin
Deion Sanders
Eric Williams
Kenneth Gant
Charles Haley
Mark Stepnoski
Leon Lett
Mark Tuinei

With guys like that on the team, some of you guys must not have enjoyed those 90 Superbowls either.

 

[Seven]

Yes-when only 2 other teams other than us that haven't won a playoff game over a decade are KC and Detroit, it makes us THE laughing stock of the league.

Other teams like Indy have a number of troubled players, but b/c they've won Super Bowls(or for that matter, consistently in the playoffs everywhere), noone gives 2 *****'s about them.

Who's Indy's "number" of troubled players?

 

[superpunk]

I guess we can't just all be Cowboys fans.

Gotta have battle lines.

 

[AmishCowboy]

Who's Indy's "number" of troubled players?

Have you ever heard how much of a Jerk Marvin Harrison is?, and now he's is being sue for a shooting that happened in his bar with his gun that they tryed to stash in a Car Wash he owns. Sounds pretty serious.