Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[MichaelWinicki]

Question

In 1987 the NCAA handed down the death penalty to SMU for recuriting violations and covering it up. This has been the harshest penalty handed down to a college

Should Penn St get this slapped on them?

I wouldn't think so Dooms unless this Mark Madden thing does have some relevance.

And then all bets are off.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Question

In 1987 the NCAA handed down the death penalty to SMU for recuriting violations and covering it up. This has been the harshest penalty handed down to a college

Should Penn St get this slapped on them?

It won't happen.

Not because I believe in the 'NCAA would never do the death penalty again.' I'm not sure if it will ever happen, but I wouldn't rule it out of the question.

The word 'lack of institutional control' usually comes up in these conversations.

One side will say that they didn't violate rules, but another side will say they lacked institutional control.

Part of the question is 'how far will this go and how ugly will it get?'

If it gets to the point where it changes the landscape of the NCAA, the NCAA may be left with no other choice.

But, I think there is too many threats of lawsuits and too many politicians involved to allow that to happen.

I don't think instituting the death penalty is the right idea. Too many kids with scholarships involved.

I think the NCAA has to help to put in measures to hopefully prevent this from happening again. I think the NCAA should help in any way possible to get the absolute entirety of the story. From Sandusky's horrific second life to all of those involved.

We need the truth, no matter how ugly it gets. The NCAA could help with that. If Penn State doesn't want to assist in getting the truth out, ban every sports program from the NCAA.







YR

 

[TNCowboy]

Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with their student athletes. Penn State, as of now, doesnt appear to have violated any NCAA rules regarding student athletes. There is no reason for them to step in here with regards to the program itself.

I disagree completely. If the coaching staff, AD's office, and top university officials were aware this was going on, they should absolutely. I fail to see what the athletes themselves having anything to do with it would matter.

 

[Doomsday101]

It won't happen.

Not because I believe in the 'NCAA would never do the death penalty again.' I'm not sure if it will ever happen, but I wouldn't rule it out of the question.

The word 'lack of institutional control' usually comes up in these conversations.

One side will say that they didn't violate rules, but another side will say they lacked institutional control.

Part of the question is 'how far will this go and how ugly will it get?'

If it gets to the point where it changes the landscape of the NCAA, the NCAA may be left with no other choice.

But, I think there is too many threats of lawsuits and too many politicians involved to allow that to happen.

I don't think instituting the death penalty is the right idea. Too many kids with scholarships involved.

I think the NCAA has to help to put in measures to hopefully prevent this from happening again. I think the NCAA should help in any way possible to get the absolute entirety of the story. From Sandusky's horrific second life to all of those involved.

We need the truth, no matter how ugly it gets. The NCAA could help with that. If Penn State doesn't want to assist in getting the truth out, ban every sports program from the NCAA.







YR

Chances are your right but I have hard time seeing what was done to the SMU program for recruiting violations and this would not be seen as a much bigger problem than what SMU did? Does not seem right

 

[Phoenix]

What major NCAA rules have been broken here? Anything to do with cheating, recruitment, etc., etc.? Nope. Not that I have seen. I don't think the NCAA can do a blessed thing here. So far that is. Least of all the death penalty!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Question

In 1987 the NCAA handed down the death penalty to SMU for recuriting violations and covering it up. This has been the harshest penalty handed down to a college

Should Penn St get this slapped on them?

Don't see how they could Dooms. There is no questions, there are plenty of grounds for criminal investigation and possible lawful recourse but as far as I can tell, no NCAA rules violations. You can't nail them unless they have violated the rules. Sucks but there it is.

Now, there may be an angle from which to penalize the institution itself. I don't know but I would not be surprised. You can beat that if this rumor is true and it is found that the NCAA had knowledge of this thing well ahead of time, they will break their collective necks to find a way to punish Penn St. by any means available to them if for no other reason then to divert blame from themselves. You can beat your life on that Dooms.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

What major NCAA rules have been broken here? Anything to do with cheating, recruitment, etc., etc.? Nope. Not that I have seen. I don't think the NCAA can do a blessed thing here. So far that is. Least of all the death penalty!

One of the annoying things about the NCAA is that they make a lot of their rules ambiguous. And they do it that way for a reason.

For example, in the 90's Syracuse University basketball program got hit with these violations. One of them was that they paid a walk-on, who is not on scholarship, to serve as one of the coaches for the summer basketball program and they paid him the same amount as the rest of the coaches (a lot of local high school coaches were working there).

That was a violation.

But the NCAA rule really doesn't say. In fact, the general rule of thumb is that the scholarship athletes should not get benefits over the 'regular student.' But again, the player in question was not on scholarship. He wasn't even recruited by Syracuse. Just a guy who enrolled into the University and decided to tryout to be a walk on (and he played as much as your typical walk on plays).

But, the NCAA made the rule ambiguous. There was other stuff they wanted to nail Syracuse on...so they used the ambiguity to their advantage and really...tough crap for SU.

I don't think NCAA rules were violated by Penn State....at least what I've read and heard about so far.

But...it wouldn't shock me to see the NCAA use their ambiguous rules to cover their own arse. If Congress starts to want questions from the NCAA, they'll probably try to do something to protect themselves.











YR

 

[Rogah]

What a mess indeed. I don't want to run away with a rumor, but if true, this may be the biggest sex scandal of all time. Some serious punishment is going to be handed out.

I don't like this being referred to as a "sex scandal". That phrase implies scandalous, but consensual, activity amongst adults.

Except perhaps murder, this scandal involves the most despicable behavior I could ever imagine a human being partaking in.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't like this being referred to as a "sex scandal". That phrase implies scandalous, but consensual, activity amongst adults.

Except perhaps murder, this scandal involves the most despicable behavior I could ever imagine a human being partaking in.

It's a rape and torture scandal...not a sex scandal.







YR

 

[Joe Realist]

Just listened to Mark Madden as guest on Philly radio. They asked why not fire McQueary and he said, PSU is keeping him to keep control of him. He said if fired, he may talk or even if he is willing to go down for JoePa's legacy, McQueary's father will not allow that.

 

[Rogah]

Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with their student athletes. Penn State, as of now, doesnt appear to have violated any NCAA rules regarding student athletes. There is no reason for them to step in here with regards to the program itself.

This is a good point but I heard a very interesting theory yesterday on the radio regarding this matter. There could exist a loophole for the NCAA to get involved if they want. What they can do - and I swear I am not making this up - is go after Penn State for recruiting violations based on the fact that Sandusky was giving away free gifts and university sponsored trips to kids while promising them they would be able to play Penn State football in the future.

I know it seems like quite a stretch but that could be a loophole to get involved if they want to. Seems to me that it would be like going after notorious mobster and murderer Al Capone for income tax evasion but hey, if it works it works.

 

[Rogah]

Just listened to Mark Madden as guest on Philly radio. They asked why not fire McQueary and he said, PSU is keeping him to keep control of him. He said if fired, he may talk or even if he is willing to go down for JoePa's legacy, McQueary's father will not allow that.

This is exactly a point I was just about to mention. McQueary, the guy even closer to this scandal than Paterno, has not been fired.

That frightens the living daylights out of me because that tells me that, for some reason, administration is afraid of alienating McQueary. And the only reason they would be afraid of alienating him is if he has some information or knowledge that they are afraid of seeing the light of day - or if some deal already made is still in place.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Yeah, read that early this morning and I was sickened by it, hope it's not true, but I have feeling it is.

I have no doubt in my mind that Paterno and his bosses knew about Sandusky's exploitation of young boys.

Then you have no idea who Paterno is or who Jerry Sandusky was to everyone around him, if you think anyone knew the depth and extent of what Sandusky was doing or who he was as a man.

 

[Aikbach]

Safe to say this university has committed suicide for the next decade, if they don't get an NCAA death penalty their reputation will do it for them.

Honor has been stripped away entirely, they are an absolute pariah now.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

This is a good point but I heard a very interesting theory yesterday on the radio regarding this matter. There could exist a loophole for the NCAA to get involved if they want. What they can do - and I swear I am not making this up - is go after Penn State for recruiting violations based on the fact that Sandusky was giving away free gifts and university sponsored trips to kids while promising them they would be able to play Penn State football in the future.

I know it seems like quite a stretch but that could be a loophole to get involved if they want to. Seems to me that it would be like going after notorious mobster and murderer Al Capone for income tax evasion but hey, if it works it works.

Not surprising. That's how the NCAA works.

I think if the NCAA starts getting questions with regards to this from Congress...this is where they'll start taking some action.

It's not that I'm looking for that. I'm more interested in all of the truth coming out and if the NCAA can help with that...which I believe they can...then they need to do that rather than worry about rules violations.

I would much rather have the truth come out and Penn State playing football than have the truth being hidden and Penn State getting the death penalty.








YR

 

[zrinkill]

Just found out that Jerry Sandusky wrote a autobiography in 2001 called



Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story

No I am not making this up.

 

[Stautner]

Chances are your right but I have hard time seeing what was done to the SMU program for recruiting violations and this would not be seen as a much bigger problem than what SMU did? Does not seem right

I think the difference is that the SMU penalty was a result of improper practices in running the football program, and the Penn State situation is a criminal matter rather than a problem in how the football program was run.

I'm sure some will jump on me for saying this by claiming it is a football matter because it involved a former football coach in the football facilities, but I would ask that people understand the distinction. There is no indication that any NCAA guidlines regarding football matters were violated - no improper recruiting or anything else of that nature. This is a criminal matter involving personnel, some of whom are associated with the football program, not a matter involving NCAA rule violations.

Another point is that with SMU there were a lot of players who had also violated NCAA rules, so they deserved to suffere the consequences too. In the Penn State matter the players themselves had no involvment, so they do not deserve to suffer consequences.

 

[03EBZ06]

Then you have no idea who Paterno is or who Jerry Sandusky was to everyone around him, if you think anyone knew the depth and extent of what Sandusky was doing or who he was as a man.

Look, I really don't give a **** what you think, I don't know either one of them, and neither do you. That is my opinion of this vile of mess those men have made. You don't need to try to change my mind so go defend Paterno with some one else.

 

[JBond]

Just found out that Jerry Sandusky wrote a autobiography in 2001 called



Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story

No I am not making this up.

I saw that a couple of days ago. Very twisted man. It is hard to come up with words how describing how depraved this man was.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think the difference is that the SMU penalty was a result of improper practices in running the football program, and the Penn State situation is a criminal matter rather than a problem in how the football program was run.

I'm sure some will jump on me for saying this by claiming it is a football matter because it involved a former football coach in the football facilities, but I would ask that people understand the distinction. There is no indication that any NCAA guidlines regarding football matters were violated - no improper recruiting or anything else of that nature. This is a criminal matter involving personnel, some of whom are associated with the football program, not a matter involving NCAA rule violations.

Another point is that with SMU there were a lot of players who had also violated NCAA rules, so they deserved to suffere the consequences too. In the Penn State matter the players themselves had no involvment, so they do not deserve to suffer consequences.

Coaches were involved the AD has lost his job for breaking the law. I'm sorry but recruiting violations seems pretty tame compared to what is taking place in the Penn St Football program. Just seems strange that conduct of a program would not be looked at as a violation of both. It is like they are holding the kids to a higher standard Dez has lunch with Deion and that violates the rules but this does not?