Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[Rogah]

Not surprising. That's how the NCAA works.

I think if the NCAA starts getting questions with regards to this from Congress...this is where they'll start taking some action.

+1. Another interesting speculation is what if people investigate this further and find out that the chain of scandal went beyond State College, PA, and went all the way to Indianapolis?

It's not that I'm looking for that. I'm more interested in all of the truth coming out and if the NCAA can help with that...which I believe they can...then they need to do that rather than worry about rules violations.

I would much rather have the truth come out and Penn State playing football than have the truth being hidden and Penn State getting the death penalty.

I don't really care what the NCAA does to Penn State. Some people say they deserve the death penalty. Well as far as I'm concerned, the football program just committed suicide so there's no need for the death penalty.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Look, I really don't give a **** what you think, I don't know either one of them, and neither do you. That is my opinion of this vile of mess those men have made. You don't need to try to change my mind so go defend Paterno with some one else.

Actually.. i do know Joe Paterno. I know what he's done throughout the course of his life for his players, the students at the university, and everyone around him. I've had the priviledge of a couple one on one talks with him as well, and i know what everyone who has ever been around him thinks of the man. He's one of the greatest men, and has done more for those around him over the course of his life than probably every single person who is condemning him right now. That's why those close to him continue to support him, and im not talking about the students ignorant mobs. Im talking about current players, coaches, former players, coaches, everyone who has been close to him to know what kind of a man he is.

The point of saying all this isn't to change your mind, if you want to be ignorant, be ignorant.. this is America after all.

My point is those characterizing him as a villian in all this, when out of all the probably over 100 people that could have stopped these acts before now, he was one of the few that took the information he was given about one incident and went immediately to the local police and his superiors at the university with it. He was fired first becaue the board cares more about the PR nightmare than they do about the victims in this situation.

That's why the man who received the information from Joe and lied about what they were doing with it, and initiated one of the greatest and sickest cover ups i've ever heard of and then lied again in his grand jury testimony.. is still employed and salaried by PSU right now, as is the eye witness. A 28 year old man who saw this happening and chose to do nothing to stop it and went to call his daddy to ask what to do instead of going to local police right away. That man will be on the sidelines coaching this Saturday.. its a complete disgrace the way this has been handled from the start and its a systematic failure from everyone from the graduate assistant on up to the president of the university on up to law enforcement and the state dept of welfare.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Coaches were involved the AD has lost his job for breaking the law. I'm sorry but recruiting violations seems pretty tame compared to what is taking place in the Penn St Football program. Just seems strange that conduct of a program would not be looked at as a violation of both. It is like they are holding the kids to a higher standard Dez has lunch with Deion and that violates the rules but this does not?

The AD is still employed and salaried by PSU.

 

[Stautner]

Coaches were involved the AD has lost his job for breaking the law. I'm sorry but recruiting violations seems pretty tame compared to what is taking place in the Penn St Football program. Just seems strange that conduct of a program would not be looked at as a violation of both. It is like they are holding the kids to a higher standard Dez has lunch with Deion and that violates the rules but this does not?

This kind of response is exactly what I was trying to prevent by adding my second paragraph, but I guess it must not have its intended effect.

I clearly did not indicate that recruiting violations are as bad as what happened at Penn State, nor did I indicate the NCAA would think they were. What I tried to make clear is that the question with the NCAA isn't about severity, it's about what they govern. NCAA violations are the domain of the NCAA, whereas criminal violations are the domain of law enforcement.

In addition, the concern of the NCAA is with the student athlete, and in this case the student athletes do not deserve to be punished because the student atheletes had nothing to do with what happened. The only way I can imagine the NCAA considering the death penalty regarding criminal matters is if there is an extended history of the student athletes at a school having persistent problems with the law such that the players themselves are in the middle of the problems, and the school is failing to provide the checks and controls needed to maintain an environment that holds the student athletes to a certain code of conduct.

Tell me, how does pulling the rug out from under 75-100 players in the football program who had nothing to do with the issue make sense? With SMU the players were involved, and knowingly violated NCAA rules. That is not the case at Penn State.

 

[03EBZ06]

The point of saying all this isn't to change your mind, if you want to be ignorant, be ignorant.. this is America after all.

Fine, I'll be ignorant about who Paterno is, but you go ahead and continue to act like you know Paterno personally, which is full of ****. You don't know that man enough to know who he truly is, just because he has done lot of good things in the past doesn't make him a great man, you have no idea what is going through his mind or what he is hiding. Even close family members don't truly know each other, how often we've seen or read about a close family member couldn't believe one of their own, who they thought was a great person commit a horrible crime.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

The AD is still employed and salaried by PSU.

Which is just as stupefying as McQuery still being employed.

 

[Joe Realist]

Which is just as stupefying as McQuery still being employed.

The thought is they dont want him to share what else he may know, so by keeping him employed, they essentially are keeping him under wraps.

 

[cowboyeric8]

Actually.. i do know Joe Paterno. I know what he's done throughout the course of his life for his players, the students at the university, and everyone around him. I've had the priviledge of a couple one on one talks with him as well, and i know what everyone who has ever been around him thinks of the man. He's one of the greatest men, and has done more for those around him over the course of his life than probably every single person who is condemning him right now. That's why those close to him continue to support him, and im not talking about the students ignorant mobs. Im talking about current players, coaches, former players, coaches, everyone who has been close to him to know what kind of a man he is.

The point of saying all this isn't to change your mind, if you want to be ignorant, be ignorant.. this is America after all.

My point is those characterizing him as a villian in all this, when out of all the probably over 100 people that could have stopped these acts before now, he was one of the few that took the information he was given about one incident and went immediately to the local police and his superiors at the university with it. He was fired first becaue the board cares more about the PR nightmare than they do about the victims in this situation.

That's why the man who received the information from Joe and lied about what they were doing with it, and initiated one of the greatest and sickest cover ups i've ever heard of and then lied again in his grand jury testimony.. is still employed and salaried by PSU right now, as is the eye witness. A 28 year old man who saw this happening and chose to do nothing to stop it and went to call his daddy to ask what to do instead of going to local police right away. That man will be on the sidelines coaching this Saturday.. its a complete disgrace the way this has been handled from the start and its a systematic failure from everyone from the graduate assistant on up to the president of the university on up to law enforcement and the state dept of welfare.

You have posted the same thing about 80 times now. We get it.

The thing is Paterno knew and could have done more and he didn't. That's what everyone is angry about. Congratulations he is the best of the worst that he told someone (Penn State Officials who just swept it away).

I'm sure Paterno is a good man, but he has no excuses anymore. And it would not surprise me one bit if he knew more than he was letting on. So in this case he was not a good man.

Yes I know other people did way worse, no one is debating that. The thing is, he is the head coach at a University that thinks he is God-like. He had some power and if you tell me he didn't then you are just blind. Unless at that time he was some weak minded old man. And if that's the case he was not fit to be a leader of men.

 

[zrinkill]

You have posted the same thing about 80 times now. We get it.

The thing is Paterno knew and could have done more and he didn't. That's what everyone is angry about. Congratulations he is the best of the worst that he told someone (Penn State Officials who just swept it away).

I'm sure Paterno is a good man, but he has no excuses anymore. And it would not surprise me one bit if he knew more than he was letting on. So in this case he was not a good man.

Yes I know other people did way worse, no one is debating that. The thing is, he is the head coach at a University that thinks he is God-like. He had some power and if you tell me he didn't then you are just blind. Unless at that time he was some weak minded old man. And if that's the case he was not fit to be a leader of men.

That is a good post.

 

[Doomsday101]

This kind of response is exactly what I was trying to prevent by adding my second paragraph, but I guess it must not have its intended effect.

I clearly did not indicate that recruiting violations are as bad as what happened at Penn State, nor did I indicate the NCAA would think they were. What I tried to make clear is that the question with the NCAA isn't about severity, it's about what they govern. NCAA violations are the domain of the NCAA, whereas criminal violations are the domain of law enforcement.

In addition, the concern of the NCAA is with the student athlete, and in this case the student athletes do not deserve to be punished because the student atheletes had nothing to do with what happened. The only way I can imagine the NCAA considering the death penalty regarding criminal matters is if there is an extended history of the student athletes at a school having persistent problems with the law such that the players themselves are in the middle of the problems, and the school is failing to provide the checks and controls needed to maintain an environment that holds the student athletes to a certain code of conduct.

Tell me, how does pulling the rug out from under 75-100 players in the football program who had nothing to do with the issue make sense? With SMU the players were involved, and knowingly violated NCAA rules. That is not the case at Penn State.

The players who were who were hurt at SMU had nothing to do with what took place those guys had already graduated.

My post really was not directed towards you or questioning your view. I understand what you’re saying.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Fine, I'll be ignorant about who Paterno is, but you go ahead and continue to act like you know Paterno personally, which is full of ****. You don't know that man enough to know who he truly is, just because he has done lot of good things in the past doesn't make him a great man, you have no idea what is going through his mind or what he is hiding. Even close family members don't truly know each other, how often we've seen or read about a close family member couldn't believe one of their own, who they thought was a great person commit a horrible crime.

You're right about one thing here.. i don't know him well enough to know who he "truly" is, but from the time i got to spend talking with him, from seeing his history of behavior for over 60 years, and from hearing what every single person who has ever been around him has to say about him, including those that have been the closest to him.. he's a greater man than anyone in this thread attacking him right now. What he's given to others, what he's done for others, how selfless he's been, and how much every single person who's around him on a daily basis respects him.. i think 80 years of acting a certain way shows what kind of a person he is.

..and like i said before, he made a mistake in judgement. He should have gone to a higher authority with the information he had, rather than the AD and head of campus police who lied to him about the "investigation" and its "results". That was his mistake.. and he clearly knows he made a mistake and was prepared to step down.

How any of us feel that we are such great men that we deserve to be attacking him and judging him when few of us know him at all or know all the facts of what happened even is beyond me. Reference the quote that Michael Robinson posted on his twitter.. that's all i have to say.


Does anyone even remember who the man was who committed these heinous acts? Or who the three were who initiated and participated in the cover up all these years? Or that law enforcement and state welfare agencies knew about Sandusky committing one of these acts before this all took place and chose to do nothing about it?

Nope.. all i continue to hear is the name Joe Paterno. As i said, one of the few out of the 100 plus people who could have done more to stop this that actually went to a police force with the information he had. Yet he's a villian now. Its as disgraceful as the failure of all the institutions that led to these boys being hurt.

 

[yimyammer]

Just found out that Jerry Sandusky wrote a autobiography in 2001 called



Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story

No I am not making this up.

In light of recent events, the title sounds more like an unauthorized biography

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You have posted the same thing about 80 times now. We get it.

The thing is Paterno knew and could have done more and he didn't. That's what everyone is angry about. Congratulations he is the best of the worst that he told someone (Penn State Officials who just swept it away).

I'm sure Paterno is a good man, but he has no excuses anymore. And it would not surprise me one bit if he knew more than he was letting on. So in this case he was not a good man.

Yes I know other people did way worse, no one is debating that. The thing is, he is the head coach at a University that thinks he is God-like. He had some power and if you tell me he didn't then you are just blind. Unless at that time he was some weak minded old man. And if that's the case he was not fit to be a leader of men.

I have no problem with this post. I wouldn't say his awareness has been at an all time high. For the last decade or so he's been more of a figurehead than a football coach. If you listen to just one press conference you can see why that is, and its clear on the sideline that he does very little "coaching" at all anymore.

He screwed up.. he had to go. This isn't debatable.. even he knew it. But firing him and keeping the AD and McQueary employed is a disgrace. Everyone involved in this situation continues to handle it horribly.

 

[JonJon]

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but here is a creepy video of Jerry Sandusky teaching how to tackle with young boys. Maybe its just me, but there is an underlying inappropriate tone in this video. See for yourself:

[youtube]aFW0WCUEOqc[/youtube]


"Good hitting position?"

It turns out that one of the boys in this video may have been victim 4 as described in the allegations found here:
http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF


Truly sickening.

 

[cowboyeric8]

I have no problem with this post. I wouldn't say his awareness has been at an all time high. For the last decade or so he's been more of a figurehead than a football coach. If you listen to just one press conference you can see why that is, and its clear on the sideline that he does very little "coaching" at all anymore.

He screwed up.. he had to go. This isn't debatable.. even he knew it. But firing him and keeping the AD and McQueary employed is a disgrace. Everyone involved in this situation continues to handle it horribly.

I agree. But he had to be fired. This University has serious problems.

 

[Stautner]

The players who were who were hurt at SMU had nothing to do with what took place those guys had already graduated.

My post really was not directed towards you or questioning your view. I understand what you’re saying.

Don't bet on it that it wasn't still happening at SMU at least up to the point the investigation started. The boosters didn't decide they were satisified and done after Dickerson and that group was gone, and the NCAA wouldn't have taken as severe an action as they did if they felt the football program had handled the matter and everything was squeaky clean. Regrdless, the fact remains the SMU case was about NCAA violations, which is the domain of the NCAA to deal with, and what happened at Penn State is a criminal matter that is the domain of law enforcement to deal with. It also doesn't change the fact that no players, present or past, were involved, or that there was no indication in the least that the student athletes were not provided the kind of environment to succeed in that the NCAA mandates.

 

[Doomsday101]

Don't bet on it that it wasn't still happening at SMU at least up to the point the investigation started. The boosters didn't decide they were satisified and done after Dickerson and that group was gone, and the NCAA wouldn't have taken as severe an action as they did if they felt the football program had handled the matter and everything was squeaky clean. Regrdless, the fact remains the SMU case was about NCAA violations, which is the domain of the NCAA to deal with, and what happened at Penn State is a criminal matter that is the domain of law enforcement to deal with. It also doesn't change the fact that no players, present or past, were involved, or that there was no indication in the least that the student athletes were not provided the kind of environment to succeed in that the NCAA mandates.

Again coaches and AD were involved to an extent I just think some type of NCAA repremaind of the school is in order if other don't fine but again the punishment handed down for recruiting violation does not come close to what has taken place at Penn St. this is not a normal situation. Just how I feel

 

[magic-sword]

Penn State continues to mismanage this whole ordeal. Coaches kept in place, students acting like selfish idiots. I feel so badly for the abused kids who had their childhoods and minds warped by this monster.

The truly bizarre and scary story came from Matt Millen's description of Jerry Sandusky and he seemed like the good natured guy. He even took the abused kids to church - what a twisted and sick person is Sandusky??

When civil trials begin with the warped reaction of Penn State how do they get a fair trial when they worship Paterno almost like a deity?

This sounds like a cult with the blind support from so many.

The school is going to get federal scrutinty and this appears to only be the start of many trials.

The Catholic Church trials have specifc outcomes as precedence and Paterno is not out of the woods as are many of the individuals who were in charge.

See this:

Lest there be any confusion that Penn State had simply failed to grasp the severity of an ambiguous situation, the graduate student reported that he “saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old” being raped by Sandusky. That’s what the leadership at Penn State, apparently up to the University President, thought wasn’t worth bringing to the attention of the police, not even the campus police.

It’s hard to come up with the right words. Appalling. Inexcusable. As a trial lawyer, the word “reckless” jumps out at me. Under Pennsylvania law:

The actor’s conduct is in reckless disregard of the safety of another if he does an act or intentionally fails to do an act which it is his duty to the other to do, knowing or having reason to know of facts which would lead a reasonable man to realize, not only that his conduct creates an unreasonable risk of physical harm to another, but also that such risk is substantially greater than that which is necessary to make his conduct negligent.

That’s from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court opinion Hutchison ex rel. Hutchison v. Luddy, 870 A. 2d 766 (Pa. 2005)(quoting Restatement (Second) of Torts § 500), a clergy abuse which evaluated a jury verdict which included a one-million-dollar punitive damages award against the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown after the jury found:

that the Diocesan Parties had knowledge that Luddy was molesting children; that they were negligent in their retention and supervision of Luddy; that they engaged in a pattern and practice of ignoring allegations of pedophilic behavior among priests; and that their negligence was a substantial factor in bringing about harm to [the plaintiff].

http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2...vil-rights-1/penn-state-sexual-abuse-lawsuit/

 

[TellerMorrow34]

If true, put a fork in PSU football. They are done.

As they should be.

It's not fair, I know, to those who didn't have anything to do with this, or future people who weren't even around, but a clear, complete, message should be sent in this case.

Rumors also starting to swirl that he molested his adopted children and many of the foster kids he and his wife took in, and that his wife was an enabler who turned
a blind eye to it all.

This is just incredible. Every time I think I've witnessed the furthest depths of human depravity, this wretched species out does itself.

Makes my heart sink at the very thought of it all.

Question

In 1987 the NCAA handed down the death penalty to SMU for recuriting violations and covering it up. This has been the harshest penalty handed down to a college

Should Penn St get this slapped on them?

Yes. Absolutely. Immediately.

I know that people will argue it's not fair to the student athletes who did no wrong, and I agree with them that it's not fair and it's unfortunate for them but heres the thing.

There were students at SMU who didn't cheat to get there. Who didn't take money. Who did nothing wrong.

But the people running the joint did and football was taken from them and for FAR LESS than what this schools administration and people in charge turned their heads to.

Absolutely, without a doubt, the NCAA should send a very clear message to all colleges in this case by shutting the Penn State football program down.

Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with their student athletes. Penn State, as of now, doesnt appear to have violated any NCAA rules regarding student athletes. There is no reason for them to step in here with regards to the program itself.

I disagree completely. I completely understand where you're coming from on this, and I respect it as well, but to me this goes far beyond anything like that and a clear message should be sent to Universities.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

The thought is they dont want him to share what else he may know, so by keeping him employed, they essentially are keeping him under wraps.

Who's thought is that? Is there a source close to the situation who stated that or did you just mean the assumption of the general public?