Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[SDogo]

Yeah they couldn't find some guys on the team to help him out or at least some college age guys?

Had to be young boys?

Your bias is really shining.

The guy is a monster no doubt but dont act like you have never seen a instructional video geared towards kids.....good grief.

 

[JonJon]

Yeah, there are thousands of video's just like this made by sports stars and coaches over the last 30 years.

IMO you have to have kind of a sick mind to take it to the level some are suggesting.

This is really getting out of control.

I don't have a sick mind and it is insulting for you to suggest that. You can't tell me the way he was standing behind that boy and holding his hands around his waste like that, in that position, is a bit extreme.

 

[Stautner]

Because it was the program. Sorry but SMU did not get ratted out until 2 year later by one of the players who broke the rules the kids at SMU at the time had nothing to do with it why should they pay the price and as Double Trouble said why should the kids at USC be put on probation after all those involved are no longer there heck Bush is making big money and so is Carroll how are they suffering from their actions?

If the football program is involved in a cover up that should be grounds for an NCAA punishment. My god if it is aginst the rule to take a kid out to dinner and the kid is punished but a coverup of a criminal act is alright then there is some very wrong with the system. The Progam is the Football team

Lets look at a hypothetical.

Scenario 1 (actual): Jeff Skilling, CEO of Enron, cooks the books, creates bogus entities desgined to line his pockets and those of other Enron execs, entices Price Waterhouse (or whoever it was) to overlook irregularities in their audits ...... and Ken Lay participates in a coverup of these activites.

Scenario 2 (hypothetical): Jeff Skilling molests a little boy, Ken Lay and perhaps a couple of others find out about it and don't tell the police because they don't want to tarnish Enron's image. Despite this, the entire business side of Enron is handled completly by the book, and every action above board.

Are both an SEC matter, or does the SEC handle scenario 1 and law enforcement handle scenario 2?

The bottom line is that in scenario 1, which is akin to the SMU situation, the entire fabric of the business has been infected by practices contrary to the intent of the business and a culture is created that is contrary to accepted business practices, and you can't assume that went away when Skilling and Lay were fired because it is a culture that is deep seeded and has an ogoing effect on the actual business practices employed by Enron. Same with a culture of repeated NCAA violations. In scenario 2, which is akin to the Penn State situation, there is no culture of improper business practices, so firing Skilling and Lay is a matter of criminal activity unrelat4ed to business practices, and not a matter of them having created a culture of improper business practices that would require the SEC to lower the boom on Enron. That's the Penn State situation.

That's the real bottom line - the fabric of the program gets infected, you hit the program. An individual screws up but the program itself was run properly, you hit the individual.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I disagree completely. If the coaching staff, AD's office, and top university officials were aware this was going on, they should absolutely. I fail to see what the athletes themselves having anything to do with it would matter.

Because the NCAA deals with student athletics. Penn State didnt violate any NCAA rules.

 

[dreghorn2]

IMO you have to have kind of a sick mind to take it to the level some are suggesting.

This is really getting out of control.

Well you better get used to it because it's only going to get worse.

For years that school will be fodder for every type of joke, story, comment you can imagine, just as the Catholic Church has been facing, and they will have no one to blame but themselves.

The behavior at Penn St. is totally and completely criminal.

As far back as '98 you have officers who heard it from Sandusky himself about his 'inappropriate' behavior. He mysteriously retires and we are led to believe that Paterno and others were not aware of these accusations?

2002 McQueary catches him raping a kid in the locker room, the next morning, next morning mind you, they are at Paternos home and he only tells Paterno that there was some 'misconduct' B.S.

Nothing is done and this guy frequents the school like it never happened.
McQueary sees him around, Paterno shoots the breeze with him over coffee (hey Jerry how about that Michigan run game) etc.. unbelievable. How many kids, how many, were assaulted after these events occurred -- shame, shame, shame.

And if it comes out that it really was common knowledge that Sandusky was tainted, as some have alluded to, and that perhaps alums were involved, forget it.

This smell will not go away for a long long time, nor should it.

 

[SDogo]

I don't have a sick mind and it is insulting for you to suggest that. You can't tell me the way he was standing behind that boy and holding his hands around his waste like that, in that position, is a bit extreme.

Again, only if you let your mind work that way considering I have seen dozens of instructional video's filmed in the exact same way not to mention had it instructed to me in that exact method.

It's a bit extreme now in the light of the allegations but I encourage you to visit a youth football camp, any camp across the nation and share your thoughts with every instructor who proceeds to explain leverage and body positioning to a 12 year old in that manor that they have "bad intentions"

 

[realtick]

Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with their student athletes. Penn State, as of now, doesnt appear to have violated any NCAA rules regarding student athletes. There is no reason for them to step in here with regards to the program itself.

I agree. But I think even without sanctions Penn State will suffer from this for years in terms o recruiting.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I disagree completely. I completely understand where you're coming from on this, and I respect it as well, but to me this goes far beyond anything like that and a clear message should be sent to Universities.

But on what grounds? The NCAA has no case, Penn State did not violate any NCAA rules. It's entirely a legal matter.

Just because we might all want to see their program burnt to the ground, there is simply no grounds for it.

 

[SDogo]

I agree. Penn State will suffer from this for years in terms o recruiting.

Debatable, I think there is a lot to play out before that can be said. It very well could be true then again just like in all programs, the right coach making the right "promises" can do wonders.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

But on what grounds? The NCAA has no case, Penn State did not violate any NCAA rules. It's entirely a legal matter.

Just because we might all want to see their program burnt to the ground, there is simply no grounds for it.

But it would seem there has to be something that could be done to punish the university as a whole or sports department other than just the court of public opinion.

I don't think the NCAA will do anything about it because their hands can only control so much that falls under their jurisdiction.

I don't know if the law can do anything other than prosecute the individuals, I don't think they can charge the university for these things.

But it would seem there has to be something that could be done to punish other than just the court of public opinion. However I am curious about what could be done in a civil court case if one of the victims (or someone representing them, say a parent) would decide to sue not only the individuals but the university as a whole. I don't know if that can happen.

 

[SDogo]

However I am curious about what could be done in a civil court case if one of the victims (or someone representing them, say a parent) would decide to sue not only the individuals but the university as a whole. I don't know if that can happen.

I'm actually expecting something of the sort before it's all said and done.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm actually expecting something of the sort before it's all said and done.

You would have to think.

There's already an attorney "advising" several of the folks according to one article I've read.

 

[SDogo]

You would have to think.

There's already an attorney "advising" several of the folks according to one article I've read.

I can't say I would not do the same or advise them to do so.

 

[The30YardSlant]

But it would seem there has to be something that could be done to punish the university as a whole or sports department other than just the court of public opinion.

I don't think the NCAA will do anything about it because their hands can only control so much that falls under their jurisdiction.

I don't know if the law can do anything other than prosecute the individuals, I don't think they can charge the university for these things.

But it would seem there has to be something that could be done to punish other than just the court of public opinion. However I am curious about what could be done in a civil court case if one of the victims (or someone representing them, say a parent) would decide to sue not only the individuals but the university as a whole. I don't know if that can happen.

I'm sure they could find some obscure loophole to exploit, but they won't. This mess will destroy their program by itself.

I fully expect a lawsuit against the school by the families, though.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I can't say I would not do the same or advise them to do so.

Exactly.

I think we could all agree it's going to be one l-o-n-g process that could get folks even more emotional.

 

[SDogo]

Exactly.

I think we could all agree it's going to be one l-o-n-g process that could get folks even more emotional.

I have a hard time controlling my emotions with this for obvious reasons beyond being an alum and a parent.

Right now it's a battle to walk the line in the middle and neither nail anyone (besides Sandusky) to a cross nor get on my knee's and praise the legend and the program that is/was Penn St and Joe Pa.

It may be years but I'm prepared to let the process play out and hope in the end everyone gets the vindication or penalty that they have coming. If that includes the University so be it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I have a hard time controlling my emotions with this for obvious reasons beyond being an alum and a parent.

Right now it's a battle to walk the line in the middle and neither nail anyone (besides Sandusky) to a cross nor get on my knee's and praise the legend and the program that is/was Penn St and Joe Pa.

It may be years but I'm prepared to let the process play out and hope in the end everyone gets the vindication or penalty that they have coming. If that includes the University so be it.

That's the best attitude to have– Just letting the thing play out.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I have a hard time controlling my emotions with this for obvious reasons beyond being an alum and a parent.

Right now it's a battle to walk the line in the middle and neither nail anyone (besides Sandusky) to a cross nor get on my knee's and praise the legend and the program that is/was Penn St and Joe Pa.

It may be years but I'm prepared to let the process play out and hope in the end everyone gets the vindication or penalty that they have coming. If that includes the University so be it.

I could see being mad at all the individuals being involved and the university as a whole right now. I don't see how one could blame the whole university going into the future after it is all taken care of.

There are some that don't like that school already before any of this came out so this just gives more ammo for their hate.

Just as if you might dislike a different school for various reasons, chances are you would be in the same boat.

I don't like notre dame for a variety of reasons so if something like this happen it with them it would just fuel my dislike for them more.

I don't dislike penn state. Didn't care for them for history between them and WVU but that was years and years ago so it does not bother me too much.

I don't currently like Penn state at all right now due to obvious reasons.

However when all of this is settled and time has passed I will go back to not caring much about them on either good or bad levels.

Something else to consider as well. This is the big news, biggest in sports right now and carrying over to the regular news to the point of people who don't follow sports at all are getting into this story.

However give it a little time and there will be some other big scandal, whether it be in sports, politics, a murder that takes a life of it's own in the media, the next big celebrity scandal, a big natural disaster or something along those lines....when that happens this scandal will slowly start going out of the news cycle for the most part and people will slowly stop talking about it.

Just like how everyone was outraged by one of the coal mining accidents. Then that went out of the news cycle. Then some time goes by and another mining accident goes by and everyone is outraged and says we let it go last time but not this time...but then some other big news item hit and people quit talking about those mining disasters and moved on.

Sadly in the world right now there are some people that are happy that this whole penn state scandal is going on right now because it is taking away press from a scandal that they might be involved in. Think of some of the recent news about politics, the Michael Jackson doctor, the kardashian divorce...those are starting to loose some traction in the news cycles because this penn state situation is gaining in the news cycles.

 

[JonJon]

Again, only if you let your mind work that way considering I have seen dozens of instructional video's filmed in the exact same way not to mention had it instructed to me in that exact method.

It's a bit extreme now in the light of the allegations but I encourage you to visit a youth football camp, any camp across the nation and share your thoughts with every instructor who proceeds to explain leverage and body positioning to a 12 year old in that manor that they have "bad intentions"

I have been to camps and have been taught the same techniques and proper positioning. I played LB throughout middle school and for one year in high school before moving to safety. All the coaches that taught positioning never positioned themselves behind any player like that. It was always to the side. And I am not suggesting that he or any other coach that decided to teach positioning that way had bad intentions, I am merely suggesting that his positioning was creepy. Add in that one of the boys in the video was his victim and it makes it more creepier in hindsight.

 

[yimyammer]

It stuns me that so many people didn't do more to stop this, I hope to God if I am ever in a similar situation I fight to my last dying breath to do everything I can to stop this from occurring and rescue the child on the spot.

I think it's only a matter of time before Sandusky puts a bullet in his head or commits suicide in some other manner. He hints at this when he is talking to Victim 6's mother and says:

I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead

Then again, its pretty cowardly to rape young boys so he may not have the guts to do himself in.