Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[TNCowboy]

I just heard back from my attorney friend and he says that he doesn't see how McQueary would be protected under the Whistle Blower law.

YR

Jack Ford, a lawyer who is on ESPN a lot, said that McQuery was probably still on staff because Penn St wanted to protect him as a witness. Not sure if he meant that from the standpoint of getting the truth, or making him more "manageable".

 

[03EBZ06]

People think they know, but they don't.

Yup, very true. I'm sure Paterno thought he knew, really knew Sandusky, hell of lot more than few posters here claiming they know Paterno and what Paterno is all about. Fact is, no one truly know about another person, no matter how close they think they are to them.

Several years ago, my best friend, whom I've known for 15 years, whom I've spent lot of time with, work at same company as an aerospace engineer, whom I even went on a vacation with our wives got arrested for soliciting a prostitute. I eventually found out he was a sex addict and that he was with escorts and prostitutes 2-3 times a week, he simply wasn't getting enough from his wife according to him, even though he said he would get it 2-3 times a week. I thought I knew this man, very well, but obviously wasn't the case, I didn't have any inkling of his issues, not one bit.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Further Mark Madden comments from yesterday:

“Joe Paterno comes from a different time. None of what I’m saying is justified because everything that has happened there is no justifying. I’m sure you guys understand me when I say that, but Joe Paterno comes from a time where you covered this kinda thing up. Back in the day all you thought about is what the neighbors knew and the neighbors thought of you. Joe Paterno comes from a time where something like this happened you swept it under the rug and got on with it the best you can, and I’m sure that’s what Paterno was thinking. I’m sure Paterno can’t believe all this has come to light in the fashion it has.”

I think Madden has a point (I used to know Madden awhile ago, he's not as bad of a guy as people think.)

I agree with some of his point, but disagree with the other.

I tend to believe that the 1st time Paterno knew about Sandusky was in 1998.

I think the allegation was 'in a shower with boys, giving a naked bear hug to one of them.'

Yes, it's against the law. Yes...it's horribly inappropriate.

For me, I would probably throw him out if I were Paterno. If I couldn't (which I doubt was the case for Paterno), I would have an eagle eye on the guy.

Why?

I'm no criminologist, but with TV and the internet and 20/20 type shows, over time I know (and others my age) that this is what child molestors do and that child molestors WILL strike again. There is no '1 time lapse in judgment.'

Paterno, he's not from the same era of information that I am from.

I think he thought in 1998 that what Sandusky did was inappropriate and he knew he couldn't allow Sandusky to take over for him. But, he probably believed Sandusky when he told him that nothing remotely like that would ever happen again.

The 2002 came, Paterno realized that this would look very bad that he knew about it in 1998 and they didn't remove Sandusky from the school, football program and 2nd Mile.

He had the choice between that blemish on the program or protecting kids. And he chose his legacy over those kids.

Sadly, this is really the *best* possible scenario in my eyes for Paterno.






YR

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Further Mark Madden comments from yesterday:

“Joe Paterno comes from a different time. None of what I’m saying is justified because everything that has happened there is no justifying. I’m sure you guys understand me when I say that, but Joe Paterno comes from a time where you covered this kinda thing up. Back in the day all you thought about is what the neighbors knew and the neighbors thought of you. Joe Paterno comes from a time where something like this happened you swept it under the rug and got on with it the best you can, and I’m sure that’s what Paterno was thinking. I’m sure Paterno can’t believe all this has come to light in the fashion it has.”

I think there's a lot to that. Have from the start. I mean, the guy was born in 1926... People thought about a lot of things differently back then.

I also think there's a lot to the old football idea that we're a football family, everything stays within these walls, and we deal with it here without getting the outside involved. That's why I think McQuery told Paterno instead of the cops. It's not right, but it's a principle McQueary had drilled into his head from the time he was a freshman playing for the head coach... A head coach that wasn't just a coach, but a revered legend.

Also, the perp had been a loyal assistant and friend to Paterno for decades. He was assistant coach of the year in 1998 and had helped the school win national championships.

Put it all together, and that's why I think it was all swept under the rug.

Now maybe Paterno didn't know all the details, probably in a deliberate effort to maintain some plausible deniability. But he knew enough to have helped those kids, and he didn't.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Penn State Scandal: Mother of Alleged Victim Says Son Was Afraid to Tell Sandusky 'No'



The mother of the boy who triggered the investigation into Jerry Sandusky's alleged child sex assaults says that during the years of abuse the boy suffered he felt he didn't have the power to say no to the former Penn State football coach.

Speaking exclusively with George Stephanopoulos on ABC News' "Good Morning America" the mother of the boy, who is referred to in court papers as Victim 1, describes how she learned of the abuse and how her son lived in fear of coming forward to implicate a football coaching legend.

"I had said, 'You know, maybe we should have come to this conclusion earlier -- you should have told me,'" the mother, whose name is being withheld, said she told her son. "He was like, 'Well, I didn't know what to do … you just can't tell Jerry no.'"



More...

http://gma.yahoo.com/penn-state-scandal-mother-alleged-victim-says-son-082520374.html

 

[casmith07]

On the radio they are alluding that McQueary is still around because of the 'Whistle Blower' law which protects federal and state gov't employees.

Although, I'm not quite buying into it. I asked a friend of mine who is an attorney (and a PSU grad) about it.

To me, Sandusky wasn't an employee...and neither was McQueary at the time. So I don't know how they can use the whistle blower law.

There is also some talk of McQueary being kept around so he will *not* plead the 5th. Sounds really far fetched to think PSU is now 'going legit' and helping with the case. And if McQ did plead the 5th, there should be a corner in hell reserved for that guy. And apparently, all that stuff Paterno was supposed to teach these guys was a load of crap. But, we get that idea anyway.








YR

McQueary did blow the whistle, however I'm not sure the Whisteblower Protection Act would protect him as he's not a Federal employee. I can research it if you'd like.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

McQueary did blow the whistle, however I'm not sure the Whisteblower Protection Act would protect him as he's not a Federal employee. I can research it if you'd like.

I think it applies to state employees as well...

But, like you said, he wasn't an employee at the time and neither was Sandusky. Although Sandusky's 'emeritus professor' status may make it different.







YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I also wonder if Sandusky's home was owned by the school or paid for by the school.

Reason being is that the victims may have a hard time suing the school if Sandusky was officially retired and if the assault didn't take place on school property. But, if the house was owned or paid for by the school...the school will be buried.

I know there are football and basketball coaches living in houses actually owned by the school that are off campus. It would be odd for Sandusky's house to be owned or paid for by the school. But, Penn State and Sandusky had a unique relationship.






YR

 

[casmith07]

I think it applies to state employees as well...

But, like you said, he wasn't an employee at the time and neither was Sandusky. Although Sandusky's 'emeritus professor' status may make it different.







YR

A simple GA status is probably not a protected class. Sandusky's status wouldn't be relevant since he wasn't the one doing the reporting.

Also if the WPA *is* applied to McQueary then it would certainly have to be applied to Paterno for reporting what he was told by McQ to the AD in '02 since Paterno actually was an employee.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Penn State Scandal: Mother of Alleged Victim Says Son Was Afraid to Tell Sandusky 'No'



The mother of the boy who triggered the investigation into Jerry Sandusky's alleged child sex assaults says that during the years of abuse the boy suffered he felt he didn't have the power to say no to the former Penn State football coach.

Speaking exclusively with George Stephanopoulos on ABC News' "Good Morning America" the mother of the boy, who is referred to in court papers as Victim 1, describes how she learned of the abuse and how her son lived in fear of coming forward to implicate a football coaching legend.

"I had said, 'You know, maybe we should have come to this conclusion earlier -- you should have told me,'" the mother, whose name is being withheld, said she told her son. "He was like, 'Well, I didn't know what to do … you just can't tell Jerry no.'"



More...

http://gma.yahoo.com/penn-state-scandal-mother-alleged-victim-says-son-082520374.html

She just insured she is named as a defendant/third party if her son sues the school or anyone.

 

[Aikbach]

All you need to know about the whole incident and it's confounding unveiling is that self preservation runs through man's veins, and the fear of losing one's reputation, status or whatever else will drive many people to do whatever it takes to preserve themselves, even if it hurts others.

Thus Penn State's national nightmare.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

A good writeup, going thru the timeline a bit more extensively, here.

A Patriot-News Special Report: Who knew what about Jerry Sandusky? There were many missed chances to investigate as early as 1995

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/who_knew_what_about_jerry_sand.html





YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

All you need to know about the whole incident and it's confounding unveiling is that self preservation runs through man's veins, and the fear of losing one's reputation, status or whatever else will drive many people to do whatever it takes to preserve themselves, even if it hurts others.

Thus Penn State's national nightmare.

I concur.

I have yet to hear anybody from Penn State say to the effect 'We are going to cooperate with authorities in order to uncover the truth about the situation and Sandusky's history with young boys.'

They are more worried about doing what they can do to stop them from losing more money. They still don't actually care about the victims. And I think if the Feds get involved, every single one of them is just digging themselves a bigger hole...they just don't know it.








YR

 

[TellerMorrow34]

"Children and youth" meaning the PA State Dept of Welfare?

If this is true, this is unbelievable how they could have two reports and one admittance of guilt from the guy and yet do absolutely nothing!

Absolutely pathetic. Yet another group of people who simply didn't do what they should have and just didn't care enough to bother.

Well you better get used to it because it's only going to get worse.

For years that school will be fodder for every type of joke, story, comment you can imagine, just as the Catholic Church has been facing, and they will have no one to blame but themselves.

The behavior at Penn St. is totally and completely criminal.

As far back as '98 you have officers who heard it from Sandusky himself about his 'inappropriate' behavior. He mysteriously retires and we are led to believe that Paterno and others were not aware of these accusations?

2002 McQueary catches him raping a kid in the locker room, the next morning, next morning mind you, they are at Paternos home and he only tells Paterno that there was some 'misconduct' B.S.

Nothing is done and this guy frequents the school like it never happened.
McQueary sees him around, Paterno shoots the breeze with him over coffee (hey Jerry how about that Michigan run game) etc.. unbelievable. How many kids, how many, were assaulted after these events occurred -- shame, shame, shame.

And if it comes out that it really was common knowledge that Sandusky was tainted, as some have alluded to, and that perhaps alums were involved, forget it.

This smell will not go away for a long long time, nor should it.

Agreed. Completely.

I agree. But I think even without sanctions Penn State will suffer from this for years in terms o recruiting.

Already has. They've had one kid already pull his name from going there and apparently another top high school kid posted on twitter yesterday that Penn State has now been removed from his list of schools to consider.

I heard about those two on Mike and Mike in the Morning today. So it's already starting to hit their recruiting and it will for a long time to come.

But on what grounds? The NCAA has no case, Penn State did not violate any NCAA rules. It's entirely a legal matter.

Just because we might all want to see their program burnt to the ground, there is simply no grounds for it.

Maybe so but that, to me, is an issue all of its own then. If you can get people for buying cars for students, giving them money, for drugs, for all that then you should have it pretty clear that if your program is caught in a situation where they're covering up a series of child molestations then you should be hit harder than for any other thing.

in fact they shouldn't even NEED a set or rules outlining this fact. This fact is common sense and therefor shouldn't need to be spelled out.

I'm sure they could find some obscure loophole to exploit, but they won't. This mess will destroy their program by itself.

I fully expect a lawsuit against the school by the families, though.

As do I. This is going to be going on for many years I believe.

I have a hard time controlling my emotions with this for obvious reasons beyond being an alum and a parent.

Right now it's a battle to walk the line in the middle and neither nail anyone (besides Sandusky) to a cross nor get on my knee's and praise the legend and the program that is/was Penn St and Joe Pa.

It may be years but I'm prepared to let the process play out and hope in the end everyone gets the vindication or penalty that they have coming. If that includes the University so be it.

I understand your emotion and understand this. My anger isn't toward you, the Penn State students, or Penn State the University itself.

It's about all the people involved here from Sandusky all the way down. Sandusky reserves the most disgust and villifying, without question, because he's a monster.

But all those who stood by and did little, or nothing, for years while this was going on, for years allowing this guy to continue to have the access he needed to get to more and more children they're vile and disgusting in their own ways as well.

I think Paterno's next course of action will be to discredit what McQueary told him. He will claim it was so vague that he didn't know what to make of it. And that when he saw Sandusky still around, he'll claim that the vagueness of what McQueary told him led him to believe it wasn't a big deal or was a misunderstanding.

If that doesn't work, he'll claim he wanted to tell authorities, but somehow couldn't.

Those are his only 2 legs to stand on.










YR

That's quite possible. In fact it's already been getting speculated that it's already been done (I don't know that because I haven't read much about anything Paterno has or hasn't said in the last couple days) but last night on GAC they were saying Paterno had already changed his story about McQueary being visiably shaken and describing it as fondling, or whatever, to McQueary didn't really tell him anything that made it seem like molestation and that he was very vague with what he said.


I don't know if Paterno has really said any of that its just what they were disgussing on GAC last night.

Heh, that's what they were saying on GAC... McQueary is about to get thrown under an 18 wheeler by Joe Pa.


Wow.

GAC also had on some writer from the State College local paper, and he sort of hinted around that he knew this would get even worse the more people looked into it. And he said there were some pretty big-time journalists in town digging around right now.

He also said he'd heard rumors about Sandusky for a few years now.

This bolded part has started to become more and more disturbing as well. That's not the first time i've seen someone say they have heard about these rumors for a while now.

A radio show guy in OKC said the same thing yesterday and last night on ESPN they were quoting Barry Switzer, after he'd been asked about it, and he indicated that he'd heard the rumors about this a long while back, or something of that effect.

I could be wrong on that part a bit cause I can't recall off the top of my head exactly what they showed him saying about that part.


But that's even more appauling to me that apparently people outside of the University and such have been allegedly hearing these rumors for years and no one thought to go let anyone in the proper authorities know? That's very disturbing to me.

I don't know wth some of you people are thinking. Paterno is going to throw McQueary under the bus???

In all of this "I hate child molesters more than you" competition you are all having and trying to show that by wanting to hang Paterno, McQueary is the worst of the lot other than Sandusky. I mean he was a 28 year old man at the time and he didn't stop the action. He had to call his daddy to find out what to do. Didn't call 911 at the time. Went to Paterno with a story that was not in as great detail as what we have now and you think McQueary is going to get "Thrown under the bus"?

Really?

Unf'n real.

McQueary is pathetic for not doing anymore than he did. I'm right with you on your outrage at him.

Joe Paterno didn't do anything really either. I know he told his boss and talked to the head of campus security, which is like talking to a mall cop, but that's nothing in a situation like this.

The reason they're saying he'll throw him under the bus is that he probably will. He's going to try and make it look like he didn't know what was going on, at all, and thus thats why he did little more. He'll try and make it seem like McQueary down played it so much that it was nothing.

Now that's speculation of course. No one knows for sure if Joe Pa will do that. Maybe he'll just come out and say "You know I just didn't do what I should have given the information he gave me." It's possible he'll do that. We'll see.

But them potentially going overboard on what Joe Pa might do to discredit the guy who could have helped stop things much sooner, you're out here trying to make it like he's the biggest to blame for it not being done sooner cause he didn't do anything and that means Joe Pa is off the hook.


Completely opposite. They're both equally on the hook here because neither of them did anywhere near what they could have and should have done to help stop this situation and prevent others from happening.

This isn't about big fish/small fish. The hate towards Paterno on this forum and in general is completely out of place with respect to what should be directed at McQueary. He was an adult who saw it happeneing and sisn't stop it. Didn't call 911 and didn't go to Paterno until the next day after he called his dad and asked him what to do. And oh yeah, his dad didn't call 911 either.

WTH???

I agree. Pathetic. How can you see something like that and not immediately step in and stop it? How can you not go to the authorities yourself screaming the story for all to hear?

He's terrible for having done next to nothing in this situation as well.

Don't tell me to shut my mouth. Who do you think you are? This is a forum to discuss things. Where do have proof that he KNEW about the 1998 incident?

I find it incredibly niave to believe that the guy was investigated on these allegations and his HC, and major face of the University, had no idea he was investigated for these allegations.

Are you telling me that Joe Pa is the only person in that area who didn't know he was under investigation for those allegations? Come on man. Seriously?

If Sandusky had been some random Joe blow who Joe Pa didn't know, then yeah I can believe he didn't know about it. We're not talking about that. We're talking about a guy he'd known, been friends with, and close with for 30 years at that point at the University. We're talking about his DC and most prized coach.

If you think that Sandusky had people investigating for those allegations and Joe Pa was completely oblivious to that fact then you're at best completely crazy.

Paterno lost his job based on speculation that he knew more than what is known. If there is proof that he knew more, then yes, she should have been fired and should face whatever comes his way.

But people acting like McQueary wasn't more culpable is so insane. He was the ONLY adult who could have saved that little boy. And yet he still has a job (at least for now).

he doesn't need to know anymore than Sandusky was investigated in 1998 for allegations of inapproperiate behavior with children and then being told about an even worse situation with a child in 2002. If those are the only 2 things he knows about, and knew nothing else of the entire situation, he'd still be wrong and completely incompetent when it came to the handling of this matter.

He knew about those two incidents and he should have done a whole hell of a lot more to ensure things were being done about and the proper authorities knew about it and he didn't. He was fine with simply letting the University sit back and essentially do absolutely nothing about it...just so long as he made sure he did the bare minimum to cover himself by telling his boss.

Ever consider that he told Sandusky he wasn't going to be coach because Paterno wasn't leaving? Oh look, Paterno stayed for another 13 years.

Ever consider that Sandusly publically lobbied for the HC job and maybe Paterno cooled towards him at that point since he was under pressure from the trustees?

Ever consider that all this tool place in 1998?

But the only possible answer was that Joe Paterno knew of the abuse and so he said "Since you are abusing children, I want you to retire, next year, and I will sweep all of this under the rug. Then you can go on abusing kids."

Yeah, that sounds more likely.

Are you serious? You're saying he did that because of those things and had no idea that his DC was under investigation for showering with a 10 year old?

Seriously? That's what you want to try and defend that with.


If you honestly believe, and maybe you do I don't know, that Joe Pa, the HC of Penn State, the be all end all of Penn State football, had NO IDEA that his DC, his friend of 30 years, was under investigation then you're quite frankly the most niave and clueless person I've ever seen.


There is litterally ZERO CHANCE that Sandusky was investigated in 1998 and Joe Pa had no idea that it happened.

ZERO chance.

Paterno knew Sandusky. Knew him very well.

Excellent point.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I find it rather comical that the same group of people saying that no one here on the board or even on campus could possibly know Joe well enough as a man to know who he really was inside, are the same group claiming that Joe was good friends with Sandusky and must have known he was a pedophile the whole time.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I concur.

I have yet to hear anybody from Penn State say to the effect 'We are going to cooperate with authorities in order to uncover the truth about the situation and Sandusky's history with young boys.'

They are more worried about doing what they can do to stop them from losing more money. They still don't actually care about the victims. And I think if the Feds get involved, every single one of them is just digging themselves a bigger hole...they just don't know it.








YR

And if that's how they play it i hope they bury every single person involved in going that route as well.

 

[joseephuss]

I find it rather comical that the same group of people saying that no one here on the board or even on campus could possibly know Joe well enough as a man to know who he really was inside, are the same group claiming that Joe was good friends with Sandusky and must have known he was a pedophile the whole time.

No, not the whole time. Just possibly from 1998 and definitely from 2002.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I find it rather comical that the same group of people saying that no one here on the board or even on campus could possibly know Joe well enough as a man to know who he really was inside, are the same group claiming that Joe was good friends with Sandusky and must have known he was a pedophile the whole time.

Wow, you love to reach.

Sometimes you think you know somebody and you don't.

Nobody is saying that Paterno knew...back when Sandusky came to the school to coach in the 70's, that he was a child molestor.

But, they are saying that he knew about the 1998 incident. And when it happened again in 2002, with that knowledge of 1998...he did the bare minimum to protect himself and didn't give a damn about the victims. And that from the evidence, it appears that Paterno helped cover it up becasue Sandusky still had an office and was still going to practices and as late as last week...AFTER the Grand Jury...he was using their weight room.

You have a faculty for conjuring up arguments from people that don't exist.









YR

 

[TellerMorrow34]

While we're on that subject of knowing him and what not I find this interesting to some degree.

Barry Switzer said yesterday that there is no way that the people on that staff, who work so closely together for so long, didn't know.

Barry was saying that, and drawing that, from his own experience of coaching college football for a long period of time. He made it clear that in his opinion there is absolutely no way that people didn't know.

What are the people's thoughts on that?

I'm just curious about that so please don't take it as an indictment on Joe Pa. I'm not saying it effects anything in anyway at all. I'm just curious as to what people feel about an opinion like that of a coach with more than enough experience in the college coaching world to have some credibility on the subject.

 

[JBond]

While we're on that subject of knowing him and what not I find this interesting to some degree.

Barry Switzer said yesterday that there is no way that the people on that staff, who work so closely together for so long, didn't know.

Barry was saying that, and drawing that, from his own experience of coaching college football for a long period of time. He made it clear that in his opinion there is absolutely no way that people didn't know.

What are the people's thoughts on that?

I'm just curious about that so please don't take it as an indictment on Joe Pa. I'm not saying it effects anything in anyway at all. I'm just curious as to what people feel about an opinion like that of a coach with more than enough experience in the college coaching world to have some credibility on the subject.

I honestly believe this could happen anywhere. Any company, any university, any charity. Anywhere. The fact that it happened at Penn State is incidental for me. I would have the same reaction if it took place at Microsoft.

Penn State is where it happened, so all those involved up and down the chain both at the university, the charity and any other group or individual that had knowledge regarding Sandusky needs to pay a steep price. That includes Sandusky's lawyer that also happens to work for his charity.