Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

JBond

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Cajuncowboy;4252136 said:
[/B]

You don't think they will?

They will pay. Some will kick and scream the entire way claiming it is not fair. Hope you are not one of them.
 

Cajuncowboy

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JBond;4252148 said:
They will pay. Some will kick an scream the entire way claiming it is not fair. Hope you are not one of them.

Here is what I think. The University will be held financially responsible in civil suits. What the courts rule, they rule. But the principle players are all gone. They will also be held liable for their actions, and to a degree, some have already begun serving their punishment by losing their careers and reputation, with more to come.

I do not know and have yet to be shown, how cancelling a football season, benefits anyone. All I have heard is that it would be a gesture. Well, it would be an empty gesture. People think that it's more about symbolic gestures rather than meaningful substance.

I don't have an issue with Paterno being gone along with the others. I don't have a problem with the University being subjected to civil suits. I don't have a problem with the University being under the microscope.

I have a problem punishing people who had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal.

As far as me watching them on Saturdays play football, I watched maybe three of their games this year. So it's not about that at all.

I just think there are better ways to scream "I hate pedophiles more than you do!" than punishing innocent people.
 

JBond

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Cajuncowboy;4252161 said:
Here is what I think. The University will be held financially responsible in civil suits. What the courts rule, they rule. But the principle players are all gone. They will also be held liable for their actions, and to a degree, some have already begun serving their punishment by losing their careers and reputation, with more to come.

I do not know and have yet to be shown, how cancelling a football season, benefits anyone. All I have heard is that it would be a gesture. Well, it would be an empty gesture. People think that it's more about symbolic gestures rather than meaningful substance.

I don't have an issue with Paterno being gone along with the others. I don't have a problem with the University being subjected to civil suits. I don't have a problem with the University being under the microscope.

I have a problem punishing people who had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal.

As far as me watching them on Saturdays play football, I watched maybe three of their games this year. So it's not about that at all.

I just think there are better ways to scream "I hate pedophiles more than you do!" than punishing innocent people.

Follow the money. It is always about the money. You know this.
 

SaltwaterServr

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Lemme get this straight.

Sandusky, getting near the peak of his potential as a head coaching candidacy suddenly retires at age 55 for no apparent reason. He never gets a single interview for any position with any college for any amount of money ever again. We're expected to believe this is a random occurrence.

He's allowed, by Penn State's athletic program to maintain an office right across the street from campus and has access to campus.

He gets caught raping a child on campus, years after retiring for no reason whatsoever.

Nothing happens.

People defending the program that gave him access to the campus after it was obviously discovered he was raping children in 1998 REALLY need to step back, analyze their loyalties, and take a *** damned good look at what they're defending.

That's all I have to say about it at this point.
 

Cajuncowboy

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SaltwaterServr;4252298 said:
Lemme get this straight.

Sandusky, getting near the peak of his potential as a head coaching candidacy suddenly retires at age 55 for no apparent reason. He never gets a single interview for any position with any college for any amount of money ever again. We're expected to believe this is a random occurrence.

He's allowed, by Penn State's athletic program to maintain an office right across the street from campus and has access to campus.

He gets caught raping a child on campus, years after retiring for no reason whatsoever.

Nothing happens.

People defending the program that gave him access to the campus after it was obviously discovered he was raping children in 1998 REALLY need to step back, analyze their loyalties, and take a *** damned good look at what they're defending.

That's all I have to say about it at this point.

Well, you haven't said much. Hard to say that NOTHING has happened with all that has happened in the last week. Coach fired. Assistant Coach fired. AD fired. VP of finamce and head of campus police fired. President of University fired. And oh yeah. The piece of crap pedophile was arrested.

Hmmm, yeah, nothing has happened. :rolleyes:
 

Cajuncowboy

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JBond;4252204 said:
Follow the money. It is always about the money. You know this.

Do you somehow think the players that are on the team now or the student body that is there now got money? If so then that would be relevant to the discussion of cancelling the rest of the season.
However, I do not think this is or has ever been about money. This goes beyond money. That you could wrap your head around. Raping and torturing little kids is something I can't wrap my head around.
 

JBond

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Cajuncowboy;4252410 said:
Do you somehow think the players that are on the team now or the student body that is there now got money? If so then that would be relevant to the discussion of cancelling the rest of the season.
However, I do not think this is or has ever been about money. This goes beyond money. That you could wrap your head around. Raping and torturing little kids is something I can't wrap my head around.


Yes the University made money off the football program. A program that systematically enabled a child rapist to protect the program.

They should lose that source of revenue because they have proven they are not responsible enough to have that money. They allowed one or more pedophiles to use the program to molest kids. A program like that needs to be disbanded.

They can try again in a couple years after they really clean house.
 

Cajuncowboy

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JBond;4252438 said:
Yes the University made money off the football program. A program that systematically enabled a child rapist to protect the program.

They should lose that source of revenue because they have proven they are not responsible enough to have that money. They allowed one or more pedophiles to use the program to molest kids. A program like that needs to be disbanded.

They can try again in a couple years after they really clean house.

Ridiculous. You think a SYSTEM allowed this? No. Individuals allowed this. Not the kids playing now, which are part of the system. Not the Board of Trustees, which are part of the system. Not the Athletic Department, which is part of the system. It wasn't the system, it was people within the system. We have seen all kinds of corruption within the Government but when we find it we don't call on the government to be disbanded. We call on those responsible to be punished.

You don't punish innocent people for the sins of others. That's not what we do in America. At least we aren't supposed to.
 

casmith07

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Cajuncowboy;4252405 said:
Well, you haven't said much. Hard to say that NOTHING has happened with all that has happened in the last week. Coach fired. Assistant Coach fired. AD fired. VP of finamce and head of campus police fired. President of University fired. And oh yeah. The piece of crap pedophile was arrested.

Hmmm, yeah, nothing has happened. :rolleyes:

I think Salty means nothing happened from 1998 to 2002, and then from 2002 until two weeks ago when the young man came forward.
 

Cajuncowboy

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casmith07;4252446 said:
I think Salty means nothing happened from 1998 to 2002, and then from 2002 until two weeks ago when the young man came forward.

I thought he was saying nothing has happened to the people involved. If I'm wrong, I apologize for misunderstanding.
 

JBond

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Cajuncowboy;4252443 said:
Ridiculous. You think a SYSTEM allowed this? No. Individuals allowed this. Not the kids playing now, which are part of the system. Not the Board of Trustees, which are part of the system. Not the Athletic Department, which is part of the system. It wasn't the system, it was people within the system. We have seen all kinds of corruption within the Government but when we find it we don't call on the government to be disbanded. We call on those responsible to be punished.

You don't punish innocent people for the sins of others. That's not what we do in America. At least we aren't supposed to.

You may know some things, but you do not know every single person involved with this. It is too early to say that the board was not involved.

Who knows how many diddlers there are at Penn State, or on the police force, or in the DA's office?

I don't want to punish innocent people. Penn State should continue to pay for all the scholarships it granted. A free education is hardly a punishment. Why are you so fired up about kids playing a stupid game? There are bigger things than playing a damn game.

I will not discuss topics that are off limits such as government or religion. You know my views on those topics.
 

WV Cowboy

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Stautner;4251154 said:
Answer these questions:

1. How many schools have received the death penalty based on one mistake?

2. How many schools have received the death penalty based on a mistake that didn't involve the running of the football program?

3. How many scholorship athletes have lost their ability to play football at the school that recruited them promised based on one mistake by a coach that had nothing to do with them?

4. How does not having a scholorship to give to a future athlete cause a current athlete to suffer other than possibly having a somewhat lesser quality team to play on?

5. When a coach commits a violation and leaves, the remaining players still have their scholorships and a team to play on, which is what the school promised when recruiting them, so how is that situation analogous with taking football away from an athlete that was recruited by the school with the promise of having a team to play on?

Answer this question: When did I ever mention the death penalty?

You must be thinking of someone else.
 

03EBZ06

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Mike McQueary Worked Jerry Sandusky Charity Event Weeks After Alleged Rape

Penn State wide receivers coach Mike McQueary has seen his role in the Jerry Sandusky story grow larger and larger as days go by. Since he was first identified as the 2002 eyewitness named in the grand jury report, he's been howled at for failing to stop Sandusky from allegedly raping a boy and failing to call the police.

He's said he did do both, though police have denied the latter. He's become enough of a celebrity that the CBS Evening News went 72-point font over a 20-second interview during which nothing was actually said.

But this might be one of the most bizarre developments yet. From the Citizen's Voice, a Luzerne County paper:

McQueary played in and Sandusky coached in the annual Easter Bowl benefiting Easter Seals Central Pennsylvania on March 28, 2002, according to a review of news archives from the time period. McQueary, a former Penn State quarterback, also played in a June 21, 2002, celebrity golf tournament benefitting Sandusky's charity, The Second Mile.
McQueary played in Second Mile golf tournament again in 2003 and was again on the field for the Easter Seals flag football game, with Sandusky coaching, in April 2004.
That Easter Bowl game was not even a month after McQueary allegedly saw Sandusky raping a child. The mind boggles at how the two could be on the same field days later, especially since McQueary has said he made sure Sandusky let the boy go, which implies a shower conflict of some sort. Previous obligations are previous obligations, but still.

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...mike-mcqueary-jerry-sandusky-golf-tournaments
 

burmafrd

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03EBZ06;4252546 said:
Mike McQueary Worked Jerry Sandusky Charity Event Weeks After Alleged Rape

Penn State wide receivers coach Mike McQueary has seen his role in the Jerry Sandusky story grow larger and larger as days go by. Since he was first identified as the 2002 eyewitness named in the grand jury report, he's been howled at for failing to stop Sandusky from allegedly raping a boy and failing to call the police.

He's said he did do both, though police have denied the latter. He's become enough of a celebrity that the CBS Evening News went 72-point font over a 20-second interview during which nothing was actually said.

But this might be one of the most bizarre developments yet. From the Citizen's Voice, a Luzerne County paper:

That Easter Bowl game was not even a month after McQueary allegedly saw Sandusky raping a child. The mind boggles at how the two could be on the same field days later, especially since McQueary has said he made sure Sandusky let the boy go, which implies a shower conflict of some sort. Previous obligations are previous obligations, but still.

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...mike-mcqueary-jerry-sandusky-golf-tournaments

So far no police department has said he went to them. So frankly anything that McQueary says from this point on I take with a large grain of salt.
 

joseephuss

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Yikes, that ain't good. McQueary looks worse and worse the more this story goes on. I hope he doesn't screw up the case against Sandusky since he is looking more and more like an unreliable witness. I would not be able to work with, for or near a guy after seeing him molest a child and I know I am not alone in that attitude.
 

Stautner

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WV Cowboy;4252536 said:
Answer this question: When did I ever mention the death penalty?

You must be thinking of someone else.

Maybe so, because the only thing I have been arguing about is that the NCAA should not impose the death penalty. I guess when you jumped in and started talking about how if innocent players get hurt that's just the way it goes it appeared you were taking the side of those who were disagreeing with me about the death penalty. Out of curiostity, if you aren't talking about the death penalty, then what are you talking about regarding innocent players getting hurt? As far as I'm concerned as long as the players still have a football team and the school is honoring their commitment to the players, then that's all the players have a right to. If you are talking about NCAA restrictions on scholorships or bowl games, I still don't necessarily agree that is appropriate, but at least in that case the players aren't having the rug completely pulled from their football careers.
 

Stautner

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SaltwaterServr;4252298 said:
Lemme get this straight.

Sandusky, getting near the peak of his potential as a head coaching candidacy suddenly retires at age 55 for no apparent reason. He never gets a single interview for any position with any college for any amount of money ever again. We're expected to believe this is a random occurrence.

He's allowed, by Penn State's athletic program to maintain an office right across the street from campus and has access to campus.

He gets caught raping a child on campus, years after retiring for no reason whatsoever.

Nothing happens.

People defending the program that gave him access to the campus after it was obviously discovered he was raping children in 1998 REALLY need to step back, analyze their loyalties, and take a *** damned good look at what they're defending.

That's all I have to say about it at this point.

Yes 1998 seems a little fishy, but exactly what happened and why is speculation, and even so, what happened was a failure on the part of the specific members of the administration, and with Joe Paterno, the individual, not the "program. As I've said many times, there is no indication the "program" failed to operate as required by the NCAA, rather it was a handful of individuals who failed in their legal or moral abligations to fellow humans (kids not within the "program") that is the issue, most of whom were administrators whose roles are not specific to the football program.

If it were an English professor that committed the crime, and the head of the English Department took it to the administration and it was covered up, should all the innocent professors and all the students within the English Department be punished? Are you going to tell the students they no longer have access to the library because of a crime and cover up they had no involvement in or knowledge of, or worse yet, that the English Department is being shut down completely and they will either have to choose another major or transfer to another school?
 

Cajuncowboy

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JBond;4252461 said:
You may know some things, but you do not know every single person involved with this. It is too early to say that the board was not involved.

Who knows how many diddlers there are at Penn State, or on the police force, or in the DA's office?

I don't want to punish innocent people. Penn State should continue to pay for all the scholarships it granted. A free education is hardly a punishment. Why are you so fired up about kids playing a stupid game? There are bigger things than playing a damn game.

I will not discuss topics that are off limits such as government or religion. You know my views on those topics.

Because those kids worked hard to get where they are. They are innocent. I don't like punishing innocent people. I know, it's odd huh?
 

Manwiththeplan

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JBond;4252438 said:
Yes the University made money off the football program. A program that systematically enabled a child rapist to protect the program.

They should lose that source of revenue because they have proven they are not responsible enough to have that money. They allowed one or more pedophiles to use the program to molest kids. A program like that needs to be disbanded.

They can try again in a couple years after they really clean house.

what would that accomplish? the school itself allowed his behavior, should they pay for everyone who attends Penn State to transfer to the school of their choice and just close down acedemically as well?

Nothing that happens will undo what transpired, nor will it in any way make it right. The only thing I would expect the University to do, is fire everyone involved. Closing down the football program accomplishes nothing.
 

Manwiththeplan

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JBond;4252461 said:
You may know some things, but you do not know every single person involved with this. It is too early to say that the board was not involved.

Who knows how many diddlers there are at Penn State, or on the police force, or in the DA's office?

It's not even logical to conclude that this was a University wide thing. It was one guy, whose actions were covered up by 4 or so people. There would be no reason to discuss this incident with the board. Either you go to the police or you hide it from everyone, including the board.
 
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