Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[Stautner]

Well, my respect for Bo Pellini shot up dramatically.

I think what he said is what so many Penn State fans have missed throughout this scandal. Football in itself, really isn't that important. If Penn State were to win the national championship 5 years in a row, it still would not affect the lives of 99% of the people in the world.

But, it's the things that can be taught to players in order to be successful that can impact their lives and other people's lives down the road. Teamwork, perseverance, work ethic, dedication, honesty, integrity, mental toughness, physical toughness, etc.

If we're just worried about having a great program and having great football games on Saturday, we are missing the point of athletics as a society.


YR

I could have understood missing A football game - it would have been an acknowledgement of the seriousness of what happened with Sandusky and those that covered up, and it would have been a show of remorse, and probably would habve been appropriate . Neverthless, in the end I don't harbor any ill will because they played the game because realistically those that should be feeling remorse (Sandusky, The AD and Administrators, Paterno and McQueary) were not the ones making the decision on whether to play the game, and ulimately eliminating football games does not penalize those that need to be penalized. Sandusky needs to spend the rest of his life in jail, the Administrators also need to do jail time, the AD and McQuesry need to lose their jobs and be forbidden from holding a job under the authority of the NCAA, and Paterno needs to live out his life with his head hung low knowing he didn't live up to the principles he was purported to have instilled in the young people he coached. If others are proven to be involved, they too should be dealt with harshly, and if any evidence ever surfaces that proves the coverup extended throughout all levels of the football program the program itself should take a huge hit.

I agree football isn't important compared to what happened to those boys - neither are classes at Penn State or anything else associated with Penn State. Not much in the world is important in that context, but swinging a huge hammer at everyone in anyway associated with Penn State does not get justice for those boys.

WV COWBOY: To get you up to speed after you jumped into a discussion you apperently didn't understand the gist of, this is what I believe. I am not for looking the other way or protecting Penn State or the football program as you seem to think. My only interest is in making judgements on guilt be based on facts and punishments be based on what is fair in light of those facts. That's all I've ever been saying, so if you have an objection then base it on this - what I am and have been saying rather than some fabrication of what I am saying.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I think what many are missing in this situation, is the fact that Sandusky raping all these kids had NOTHING to do with the football program at PSU. Jmo.

There's a reason why football wasn't stopped this year, and why most sponsors are saying they would have no problem offering Penn State an invitation to their bowl game should they qualify. As much as people want to pin the blame on PSU football, it really has nothing to do with the program.

 

[TheDude]

I think what many are missing in this situation, is the fact that Sandusky raping all these kids had NOTHING to do with the football program at PSU. Jmo.

Tallying the president, AD, Head Coach (who basically IS the program in Penn States case compared to say Vanderbilt), an assistant coach, etc., I am having a hard time equating what WOULD be considered a program. All secretaries, ball boys, janitors, players?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ine/51346682/1

While perhaps not an outlier, there is issues with the program (like most schools sadly).

There's a reason why football wasn't stopped this year, and why most sponsors are saying they would have no problem offering Penn State an invitation to their bowl game should they qualify. As much as people want to pin the blame on PSU football, it really has nothing to do with the program.

Correct...Money. Penn State gets some, bowl games get some from how well a big school's fan travels. The "program" at penn state more than any other school in the nation is tied to the HC. 46 years does that.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Tallying the president, AD, Head Coach (who basically IS the program in Penn States case compared to say Vanderbilt), an assistant coach, etc., I am having a hard time equating what WOULD be considered a program. All secretaries, ball boys, janitors, players?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ine/51346682/1

While perhaps not an outlier, there is issues with the program (like most schools sadly).




Correct...Money. Penn State gets some, bowl games get some from how well a big school's fan travels. The "program" at penn state more than any other school in the nation is tied to the HC. 46 years does that.

Im curious how it is the football program to blame when no player or coach was the one who did anything wrong.. if someone could explain i would appriciate that. Thanks.

 

[Stautner]

Tallying the president, AD, Head Coach (who basically IS the program in Penn States case compared to say Vanderbilt), an assistant coach, etc., I am having a hard time equating what WOULD be considered a program. All secretaries, ball boys, janitors, players?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ine/51346682/1

While perhaps not an outlier, there is issues with the program (like most schools sadly).




Correct...Money. Penn State gets some, bowl games get some from how well a big school's fan travels. The "program" at penn state more than any other school in the nation is tied to the HC. 46 years does that.

Something that involves the "program" would be something that runs throughout the program, top to bottom. May not invovle everyone, but every level is infected. When there are recruiting violations, payoffs, favores, etc. for example, the administration, coaches, AD are supposed to be clean and have control of the kids, and the kids are supposed to turn away from the problem, so when it happens there is an infection that runs top to bottom. That is not the case here.

Now, before someone accuses me of saying recruting issues are a severe as child molestation, I ask you to step back and read what I have said. What I am talking about is the degree of infestation in the program - how many people at what levels are involved - not the severity of what people are accused of.

I've used this example before. If an english professor rapes someone, a TA finds out and tells the head of the english department who tells the president of the school, who then covers it up, is the entire english department to blame, and should classes be cancelled? Of course not. Those involved most surely should get whatever punishment can be thrown at them, but the unknowing profeswsors, TA's, secretaries and students should not suffer.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...-11-22/11-22-11-Paterno-Discipline/51346682/1

Stories like that don't surprise me a bit, frankly.

I think they only really surprise those who for some reason believe good football coaches are more than that, just good football coaches. They aren't infallible or even necessarily admirable otherwise.

 

[TheDude]

Im curious how it is the football program to blame when no player or coach was the one who did anything wrong.. if someone could explain i would appriciate that. Thanks.

First, the seriousness and magnitude of the crime supercedes any college department carrying on with a moey making activity 5 days after the story breaks. That is Bo Pelini's point, and others here. Football is so insignificant in life it isn't even debateable in comparison.

Second, if you view it as punishment, 99.999% of all punishment of crime/misdeed/etc. is metted out ex-post not ex-ante. If the biology department had a former professor accused of raping boys 8 years ago and was still given access to the biology showers and offices after being fired around another allegation, etc. Would anyone be taking to the PhylumClassGenusSpeciesZone and bemoan the injustice to the department for cancelling a debate?

Either way, I had to get up and go to my job, so it doesn't impact me. But I would have cancelled it from respect. Or AT LEAST donated all revenue

 

[RoyTheHammer]

"When we say, 'We are Penn State,' it's more than just 'We are Penn State and you're not.' It's also: 'We are Penn State and we are one. We are members on the same team, therefore we will do whatever it takes to protect the team, the culture around the team and university,' " Asbury said. However, he likely could never have imagined that protecting the program would cross the line to criminal behavior, as the allegations of a coverup suggest.

Morons like this are the problem. "We are Penn State" is automatically viewed as a football based slogan by most.. yet it really has no base in the football program at all. Its a saying that can be heard all across campus, and is supposed to stand for pride in your school, not in your football team. Yet its used misleadingly to try and prove a point by someone with an agenda in this case.

Not one person involved in the football program has been proven to have done anything wrong at this point.. yet a great majority of the blame for this situation is being thrown at the feet of the football program. Its lazy journalism, and a senseless public that allows this to happen.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Stories like that don't surprise me a bit, frankly.

I think they only really surprise those who for some reason believe good football coaches are more than that, just good football coaches. They aren't infallible or even necessarily admirable otherwise.

Some are, .. just not in this case.

Tom Landry, .. now there is an admirable man.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Football is so insignificant in life it isn't even debateable in comparison.

I agree.. yet everyone in the media wants to talk about the football program instead of the real issue.

Makes little sense, huh? Glad we agree.

 

[Stautner]

First, the seriousness and magnitude of the crime supercedes any college department carrying on with a moey making activity 5 days after the story breaks. That is Bo Pelini's point, and others here. Football is so insignificant in life it isn't even debateable in comparison.

Second, if you view it as punishment, 99.999% of all punishment of crime/misdeed/etc. is metted out ex-post not ex-ante. If the biology department had a former professor accused of raping boys 8 years ago and was still given access to the biology showers and offices after being fired around another allegation, etc. Would anyone be taking to the PhylumClassGenusSpeciesZone and bemoan the injustice to the department for cancelling a debate?

Either way, I had to get up and go to my job, so it doesn't impact me. But I would have cancelled it from respect. Or AT LEAST donated all revenue

I've said it before, but this, to me, makes much more sense. This actually does somebody some good, whereas cancelling football games doesn't accomplish anything, least of all for the victims.

 

[joseephuss]

Im curious how it is the football program to blame when no player or coach was the one who did anything wrong.. if someone could explain i would appriciate that. Thanks.

Sandusky was a coach. The AD is also part of the football program along with the other sports. Did they do nothing wrong?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Some are, .. just not in this case.

Tom Landry, .. now there is an admirable man.

Arn't you the one i've seen crying about how we should all stop talking about "Penn St people" because they arn't the real issue here?

Yet another post commenting on the football coach at Penn State.. strange.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Sandusky was a coach. The AD is also part of the football program along with the other sports. Did they do nothing wrong?

Sandusky was not employed by the football program at the time of these incidents.

The AD is one man.. you're going to come down on the entire football program because one man, who doesn't even directly run the football program but only supervises it, acted unlawfully?

That'd be like blaming everyone in your township because the local police were involved in helping to cover up a drug ring in your area.

 

[joseephuss]

Sandusky was not employed by the football program at the time of these incidents.

The AD is one man.. you're going to come down on the entire football program because one man, who doesn't even directly run the football program but only supervises it, acted unlawfully?

That'd be like blaming everyone in your township because the local police were involved in helping to cover up a drug ring in your area.

Sandusky was part of the coaching staff in 1998. He didn't retire until 1999.

I am not coming down on the entire football program. I just pointed out that you were wrong about no one who is part of the football program did anything wrong. Sandusky is the main culprit in this whole mess and he was a coach.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Sandusky was part of the coaching staff in 1998. He didn't retire until 1999.

I am not coming down on the entire football program. I just pointed out that you were wrong about no one who is part of the football program did anything wrong. Sandusky is the main culprit in this whole mess and he was a coach.

Was a coach.. wasn't part of the football program at the time of the first incident that was reported in 2002.

If you want to refer to the 1998 issue, he was never charged with any wrongdoing.

However, as you said, my main point is that all this blame that i see going to the feet of the PSU football program is hogwash and the result of lazy journalism and a senseless public. The football program should be the least of anyone's concern at this point, yet its like the "PSU football program" raped a bunch of little kids. Its ridiculous.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I think what many are missing in this situation, is the fact that Sandusky raping all these kids had NOTHING to do with the football program at PSU. Jmo.

Arn't you the one i've seen crying about how we should all stop talking about "Penn St people" because they arn't the real issue here?

Talking about them, .. and defending them are two different things.

 

[Stautner]

Talking about them, .. and defending them are two different things.

The question is, why wouldn't you defend people that had nothing to do with the crime or the coverup?

As far as we know, within the actual football program, only McQueary and Paterno knew anything, so why shouldn't the other 150 or more people associated with the football program be defended against condemnation for what McQueary and Paterno did (or failed to do)?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Talking about them, .. and defending them are two different things.

..and i'll defend the football program until the point that i see evidence that i shouldn't. Haven't seen it yet, so i'll back the program over the people who want to assume and speculate what they think happened.

Not sure how that changes you crying that we shouldn't be talking about any Penn State people, yet continue to comment on Penn State people.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

The question is, why wouldn't you defend people that had nothing to do with the crime or the coverup?

As far as we know, within the actual football program, only McQueary and Paterno knew anything, so why shouldn't the other 150 or more people associated with the football program be defended against condemnation for what a McQueary and Paterno did (or failed to do)?

And the two who have been proven to know something acted lawfully in dealing with what they knew, so im still failing to see how this is the football program's fault.

If anyone has a rational reason as to why its the football program that we should be blaming, please speak up.. haven't heard one so far.